191 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

Siradix wrote...

But will we ever see romances again, like for DA2?

Bioware explained us that romances require a lot of work and increase development costs so the honest  answer to your question is:
if awakening sales will be really low you can bet Dao2 will contain a lot of romances
if awakening sales will be good dao 2 maybe not contain romances

Nooo...

DA2 will have romances, you can bet on it... DO:A is an expansion not a sequal two very diffrent things.

[WilliamShatner]

Wishpig wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

balvan64 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Yes, and yes. Plus this is an expansion, with an expansion-sized budget. Not a sequel.

I fail to see the budget issue after paying 40$.
The original game costs 50$, only 20% more.
The game engine is already there, it's not nearly as expansive as making a game from scratch.

For the price we're paying for this expansive, it feels like a bit of a stripped game.
This expenstion should have been sold for 25$ tops in prescriptive to the content and the playing value it offers.

Indeed I find the whole budget excuse rather telling/insulting when you consider:

1) The price of the expansion.
2) The game engine is done.  This is just adding more content onto it. 
3) EA is one of the biggest publisher of games in the world.
4) BioWare is one of the biggest developers of games in the world.
5) As much as I love her voice work the actress playing Leliana is hardly Martin Sheen.  How expensive would it be to get her back exactly?
6) Dragon Age sold 2.5 million copies on consoles alone.

Yeah I know this is a business and they have to make money but it still comes off a cheap and cutting corners.

You shouldn't be pissed at bioware, just be pissed at EA...

1. Is decided by EA, like the devs told us. They didn't sound to happy about the price either... whiplash.
2. Plus it's an engine designed to be easily modded and added to... but I'm no dev I dunno
3. Although you wouldn't think it, with their sneaky tricks
4. True that, but now their under EA's heel.
5. Oh come on, even if this was Dragon Age 2, they had a s***load of money, and a good amount of time, you would prob not see Leliana... hardly a matter of VO price alone. Same reason you didn't see Ashley or Kaiden agian.
6. Not nearly as much as ME2, so you can bet the Dr. Evils of EA are trying their damndest to get more $$$$.

But devs on these forums have several times that EA have no impact on how they make their games.  BioWare are the people who make them.  And I'm sure they fund them as well.  EA are only their publisher - marketing, getting games into shops.

And I would have a lot more faith in BioWare if this hadn't been proceded by their shocking treatment of the original Mass Effect crew in ME2.  Awakenings has just awakened a realisation of a trend starting to appear in BioWare's follow ups, one that I really, really dislike.

[GrogTheWarrior]

[But devs on these forums have several times that EA have no impact on
how they make their games.  BioWare are the people who make them.  And
I'm sure they fund them as well.  EA are only their publisher -
marketing, getting games into shops.

And I would have a lot more faith in BioWare if this hadn't been proceded by their shocking treatment of the original Mass Effect crew in ME2.  Awakenings has just awakened a realisation of a trend starting to appear in BioWare's follow ups, one that I really, really dislike.]

^ i agree whole heartedly
just beat ME2, friend asked if they should pick it up told them  not to waste money adn borrow mine, if the same trend keeps happing i am sure not buying any more games from them. but what can you do, if CEO's and such don't push for certain things or if they push for certain things then you end up with stuff that only casual gamers will pick up, and you won't start a long runnign series that way

Modifié par GrogTheWarrior, 20 février 2010 - 05:10 .

[TheLion36]

Maria Caliban wrote...
There is *no* canon.
You can't make an xpac about an event that might not happen.

I never said it had to revolve around her... I just mentioned it had to be dealt with and finished.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am willing to bet your life that Bioware is going to bring this story to a closure. Either in an expansion or in a sequel. If the sequel is set in another place, with a different PC and a different time frame (which I would welcome), then chances are Morrigan will be delt with in an expansion.
I miss the witch  

I hope so, I'm just scared to death to be in DA2 or DA3 with a completely new just in his first chainmail character and it turns out that Morrigan and her now fully grown baby are the new major enemies... That would just suck hehe!  
Like I said before I'm fine with new stories in DA2 and even a new PC, but they have to finish this cliff hanger first! 

Modifié par TheLion36, 20 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[shedevil3001]

but we all know thats not likely to happen after all its all about making money not keeping gamers happy mean as they know that despite our complaints most of us will still buy the game so either way they make money why would they care if we are happy as long as it sells

[SeanMurphy2]

I think when they talk about budget. It probably also relates to

1) Staff they had available for the project; Some staff had to finish polishing and porting DA:O, others worked on DLC or were moved to Mass Effect/TOR.

2) Time to finish the expansion; They can't work on it forever. The team may need to move onto other DA projects. They may not have the luxury of spending several years working on one expansion. Also for sales reasons they may want to release it in early 2010.


It might have been dangerous to be too overambitious and include everything in an attempt to satisfy all the fans. I think it is better to be aware of their limitations and make a tighter polished game.

The original game is very ambitious in scope. Not just the six openings. But there is so much stuff happening in the mid game. Darkspawn invasion, civil war, Loghain's motivations, several huge treaty locations, well fleshed out companions and referencing the origin stories.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 20 février 2010 - 06:01 .

[Sabriana]

shedevil3001 wrote...

but we all know thats not likely to happen after all its all about making money not keeping gamers happy mean as they know that despite our complaints most of us will still buy the game so either way they make money why would they care if we are happy as long as it sells

What scares me is the way things went in the past, though. People had faith in westwood/maxis/insert your own company. They supported them, but it got so bad that even the most ardent fans fell to the way-side, after being milked for all they had. It all went down-hill for each and every one of the companies, until they died. People, even the most ardent fans, lost faith, and see what happened? BioWare is special to me, it has been for many years. I don't want them to go the way that above mentioned companies went.

[balvan64]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David is talking about the budget he had to work with. Complaning to him about the price of the game is like me complaining to my postman about my taxes.

David is a Bioware employee who represents Bioware on this forum, not a client or just some poster. As such, David answers represent Bioware (Hence the Bioware logo next to his name).
As Bioware representative david calimed the up coming expansion's budget was too low for including all the things the forum postered complained about being missing.

I claimed that at a 40$ price tag - only 20% less than the original game - I do not see the budget issue at all, this taking into account that the expansion is based on an existing game engine and not developed from scratch.
I think that they simple chose to get alot more profit %  for less content and features out of this expansion knowing that the original game success will take care of selling this expansion no matter if it's unfairly priced in preservative to what it offers.

Maria - When you have a problem with your cellualr phone service provider, do you call the call center and ask to talk directly to the share holders? Or do you talk to the company's representative?

Modifié par balvan64, 20 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[David Gaider]

balvan64 wrote...
David is a Bioware employee who represents Bioware on this forum, not a client or just some poster. As such, David answers represent Bioware (Hence the Bioware logo next to his name).
As Bioware representative david calimed the up coming expansion's budget was too low for including all the things the forum postered complained about being missing.

I claimed that at a 40$ price tag - only 20% less than the original game - I do not see the budget issue at all, this taking into account that the expansion is based on an existing game engine and not developed from scratch.
I think that they simple chose to get alot more profit %  for less content and features out of this expansion knowing that the original game success will take care of selling this expansion no matter if it's unfairly priced in preservative to what it offers.

Well, let's see...

a) I do not set the budget. Nor do I influence it.

The budget is not based on the price tag the game is sold at. It is based on the fact that it is an expansion, and therefore will only sell a fraction of whatever sales the original game made. Smaller possible sales means smaller team and shorter development time-- the last because the only thing that really does seem to impact expansion sales is how quickly it comes out.

c) You can complain about what you see is missing if you like. That does ignore the fact that there's also a lot added. We are not taking away from Origins-- everything you have in Origins is still in that game and very much worthwhile. This expansion adds on a new experience, and if that's still not worth it to you that's up to you to decide. If not, that's too bad, but the scope of an expansion is not going to change just because of the price it's set at on store shelves. Just as the original game's price was not based on its length or scope but rather for the going rate of stand-alone game, so is the price of expansions or other additional content not based on any comparison to the original game's length or scope but on the going rate for expansions and additional content. It's nothing I have influence over, as I said, but even a casual observer should be able to tell that's the way it is.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 février 2010 - 07:40 .

[Fingolfin09]

When u speak of the budget it seems as though Bioware was searching in the sofa for spare coins now do not get me wrong here but i think that they should have thought of a Origins 2 rather than an expansion dont get me wrong again! i am really looking forward to the expansion but after reading all the forums about Awakening it seems as though its not going to live up to the Dao. Yet i am going to buy it but may i ask s it going to be like a big expansion or are we talking about a Bethesda fallout 3 type of expansion that take a max of 4 hours to complete or less.

[SinYang]

Fingolfin09 wrote...
When u speak of the budget it seems as though Bioware was searching in the sofa for spare coins now do not 

Very amusing images from that.

Modifié par SinYang, 20 février 2010 - 08:22 .

[shedevil3001]

yes we can understand what your saying david and i wasn't personaly naming you out when i was complaining this is just frustrating for gamers as things we have thoroughly enjoyed about this game are removed and until recently not much of an explanation has been given while a lot of people are upset or mad i'm sure they dont mean any offense and are just blowing of steam and trying to understand why the expansion is as it is

[balvan64]

David Gaider wrote...
a) I do not set the budget. Nor do I influence it.

As I said already, I'm talking to you as a Bioware representative not as a private person.
I think that when it gets to a sore spot it's easier for you to take the position of a bystander by saying you have no influence (it's not you, it's "them") instead of someone which is representing Bioware on the forums - the people who set the budgets - which apparent to the company logo, you really are. If you want to post your opinion as just another poster then make a normal account like mine and talk about Bioware as a seperate body as you see fit.

Yes, I am aware that you do not work at the finance department yourself, my guess is that you are in public relations. I'm talking to you as someone who was probably appointed to represent Bioware on their public forums, and as such I'm directing my budget queries to you, and not mailing them directly to the number crunching people.

No disrespect Intended here, I hope you don't ban people who politly speak their minds on public channals you created for your customers. Peace and eternal love <3.

David Gaider wrote...
The budget is not based on the price tag the game is sold at.

That's my point exactly, I think it should be. If you gave it a budget proportional to the price tag, we the customers would get playing value proportional to our money.

David Gaider wrote...
it is an expansion, and therefore will only sell a fraction of whatever sales the original game made. Smaller possible sales means smaller team and shorter development time-- the last because the only thing that really does seem to impact expansion sales is how quickly it comes out.

Call me crazy, but I think an expantion main selling point is the success of the original game.
If the original was disapointing, no one will bother with an expantion. If it was a big hit, everyone will get the expenstion. Judging by the reviews you got, I think you won't sell less copies even if you delayed the release for two more months.

David Gaider wrote...
but the scope of an expansion is not going to change just because of the price it's set at on store shelves. Just as the original game's price was not based on its length or scope but rather for the going rate of stand-alone game, so is the price of expansions or other additional content not based on any comparison to the original game's length or scope but on the going rate for expansions and additional content.

Yeah, again, this was my point exactly. We don't pay for how long, deep and rich the expantion is, we just pay a price that's 80% of the original game price for something that doesn't have half the content and great features the original had. Hence my calim about unfair pricing or price not proportional to content and value. I think this expantion should be sold for 25$, just my 10 cents, or should I say, just my 40$.



What do I want to see for 40$?
1. Romance.
2. DLC carried over (why is that so unimaginably hard? must we find ourselves naked?)
3. Previous love intrest incorporated into the storyline.
4. Atleast 70% playtime as the original had.
5. Atleast compaions carried over.
6. The dog carried over (Why wouldn't he come with me?)
7. choices I made reflecting on the storyline.

But I guess I'll have to settle for what you're offering, seeing that I already preordered falsely assuming that all of the above are obviously granted.

Modifié par balvan64, 20 février 2010 - 11:33 .

[David Gaider]

balvan64 wrote...
Yes, I am aware that you do not work at the finance department yourself, my guess is that you are in public relations. I'm talking to you as someone who was probably appointed to represent Bioware on their public forums, and as such I'm directing my budget queries to you, and not mailing them directly to the number crunching people.

Err... no.

I am on the development team -- specifically the writing team. I come here in my spare time. I'm not here to take your opinions and report them anywhere, so if you feel the need to mail them directly to "the number crunching people" then you should do that.

And I get what you think the price of the expansion should be based on, all I'm saying is that it's not -- and no expansion is priced that way. No development budget is set that way, either... and that part I know about, because I'm one of the people who have to work with that budget.

What you want to see for your $40 is all well and fine. I was addressing your assumptions about budgets and pricing, which were off base, and that's all.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 février 2010 - 11:40 .

[Jshay512]

I have to agree with David actually. They say this all the time. They are on the forums on their free time/ they didn't set the prices/ and its an expansion not a DA 2. And Balvan i'm sorry but people like you really get on my nerves. You act the Bioware team did nothing good for the expansion and that they took out the DlC, Romances, and which companions to bring over to the expansion just to make the people mad. No they did it to fit the story (Romances) or it wasn't really worth it and would just be changed later in the game (DLC). I'm also pretty sure that most of the writers who come onto the forums know what people wanted in the game since there are about 100 different threads on the exact same topic, so you do not have to put what you want to see in the game on again for what is probably like your 5th+ time saying it.

Modifié par Jshay512, 20 février 2010 - 11:56 .

[balvan64]

Jshay512 wrote...
You act the Bioware team did nothing good for the expansion and that they took out the DlC, Romances, and which companions to bring over to the expansion just to make the people mad.

Have I said that they are doing this intentionally just to ****** me or others off? I must have missed that...
I'm just saying I'd like to see more content per dollar, that is all.
If you feel that the pricing is ok, than great, it's your right to disaggre.

Jshay512 wrote...
you do not have to put
what you want to see in the game on again for what is probably like
your 5th+ time saying it.

Honestly, this was the one and only time I ever wrote down what I personally want to see.
But feel free to currect me and quote all the other four you are reffering to.

Jshay512 wrote...
Balvan i'm sorry but people like you really get on my nerves.

Well Jshay, I'm sorry me and people who voice some dissatisfaction are getting on your nerves, but in all fairness, you knew the nature of this post by the topic. If reading the content of posts that are voicing dissatisfaction with some of Bioware's decions make you feel uneasy, it is best that you try and avoid them, as it is unlikly you can make people stop posting what's on their minds.

Make love, not war.


Just to clearify, I've bought the expantion and I recently greatly enjoyed DA:O and ME2.
In general, I like Bioware's work, but there are some issues I'm dissatisfied with and I'm trying to express my opinion on them by posting here.

Modifié par balvan64, 21 février 2010 - 12:18 .

[Maria Caliban]

Wishpig wrote...
Nooo...

DA2 will have romances, you can bet on it...

Indeed. Companions are one of the most zot expensive elements and romantic companions are even more so. We don't even have that large a 'cast' in Awakening, so it makes less sense to include a romance.

shedevil3001 wrote...

but we all know thats not likely to happen after all its all about making money not keeping gamers happy mean as they know that despite our complaints most of us will still buy the game so either way they make money why would they care if we are happy as long as it sells

I buy the game because it makes me happy. I hang out on BioWare forums because I love a BioWare game.

Awakening won’t be as good as Origins in some areas, but it adds a cool story, cool companions, and moar desu. The reason BioWare makes money is because they keep gamers happy.

balvan64 wrote...

As I said already, I'm talking to you as a Bioware representative not as a private person.

This doesn't work because David is a person, not a fembot BioWare has hired to scan the forum and occationally post marketing phrases.

balvan64 wrote...

Yes, I am aware that you do not work at the finance department yourself, my guess is that you are in public relations. I'm talking to you as someone who was probably appointed to represent Bioware on their public forums, and as such I'm directing my budget queries to you, and not mailing them directly to the number crunching people.

As I said in my first reply to you, the man you're looking for is Victor Watcher.

[Jshay512]

I havn't seen you in say it before I more mean that i see people who say the exact same thing over and over and over again... You say you want more content when you dont even know what is all on it now... I mean unless somehow you got the game already and have played it and know exactly how much it has then heck you can say you want more. It might surprise you and have more content then you ever expected. It just bothers me that people say all this stuff about the game even though they havnt even played it yet.

Modifié par Jshay512, 21 février 2010 - 12:34 .

[Maria Caliban]

Rule 1: MAOR DESU.

[FieryDove]

David Gaider wrote...

Err... no.

I am on the development team -- specifically the writing team. I come here in my spare time.

Thank you for taking the time to post, most appreciate it tons.

I will miss my Puppy tho...I hope he is alive and well...somewhere. Sniff.

[balvan64]

David Gaider wrote...
Err... no.

I am on the development team -- specifically the writing team. I come here in my spare time. I'm not here to take your opinions and report them anywhere.

Well, this is intresting.
David, did you get a briefing of some sort telling you what you can and can't say on the forum from you company?
Can all members of the company get an account and just post their views and opions as they see fit?

David Gaider wrote...
And I get what you think the price of the expansion should be based on, all I'm saying is that it's not -- and no expansion is priced that way. No development budget is set that way, either... and that part I know about, because I'm one of the people who have to work with that budget.

David, you say you are on the the development team, as a writer.
Would you be so kind and elaborate about your job and what it entitles?

David Gaider wrote...
What you want to see for your $40 is all well and fine. I was addressing your assumptions about budgets and pricing, which were off base, and that's all.

Ok, I understand the way thing are done at Bioware. I'm not happy with the way things are done, but the discussion about this matter is over since It isn't getting us anywhere.


David, a common public relations strategy used by many game developers when dealing with complaints by customers is getting on the same side as them.

Lets say a game was released and it fell short on answering some of the fans expections.
A great startegy would be to post as dev member saying how he is dissapointed he didn't get enough budget to fulfill all of the things the fans wanted to see. Saying he feels for the fans and he has to live with that himself too.
This creates a lot of symphaty towards the Dev poster and quells the flames at the forums.
It creates a feeling that some unkown party is the source of all the wrongs, and posting about it just makes the dev guy sad and evantually annoyed since he can't do anything about it and suffers just like the fans. We're all in the same boat.

Are you aware of such strategies?

I want to add that if you are posting as just a dev guy, don't feel obliged to answer my complaits about the budget.
I'm posting about Bioware in general, hoping that someone that is influencing the budget or can speak in their behalf will reply. I would never blame you for any of these things now that I know you are a dev guy.

Final words - I really do enjoy Bioware work lately, and I think a little critisim and opionions from customers will make
to keep Bioware's games great in the future to come. I do not think Bioware are doing something just to ****** me off or that they are doing a bad job or that the expantion is going to be a bad game. I just feel it could have been a little better and richer, and wanted to say why.

<3<3<3

Modifié par balvan64, 21 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[SDNcN]

balvan64 wrote...

David, a common public relations strategy used by many game developers when dealing with complaints by customers is getting on the same side as them.

Lets say a game was released and it fell short on answering some of the fans expections.
A great startegy would be to post as dev member saying how he is dissapointed he didn't get enough budget to fulfill all of the things the fans wanted to see. Saying he feels for the fans and he has to live with that himself too.
This creates a lot of symphaty towards the Dev poster and quells the flames at the forums.
It creates a feeling that some unkown party is the source of all the wrongs, and posting about it just makes the dev guy sad and evantually annoyed since he can't do anything about it and suffers just like the fans. We're all in the same boat.

Are you aware of such strategies?

It isn't David Gaider's job to garner sympathy from the community.
I like that he comes here and actually expresses his thoughts on Dragon Age and engages in conversations as opposed to blaming the game's shortcomings on the man behind the curtain.

Modifié par SDNcN, 21 février 2010 - 01:55 .

[Jackimole]

balvan64 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Err... no.

I am on the development team -- specifically the writing team. I come here in my spare time. I'm not here to take your opinions and report them anywhere.

Well, this is intresting.
David, did you get a briefing of some sort telling you what you can and can't say on the forum from you company?
Can all members of the company get an account and just post their views and opions as they see fit?

David Gaider wrote...
And I get what you think the price of the expansion should be based on, all I'm saying is that it's not -- and no expansion is priced that way. No development budget is set that way, either... and that part I know about, because I'm one of the people who have to work with that budget.

David, you say you are on the the development team, as a writer.
Would you be so kind and elaborate about your job and what it entitles?

David Gaider wrote...
What you want to see for your $40 is all well and fine. I was addressing your assumptions about budgets and pricing, which were off base, and that's all.

Ok, I understand the way thing are done at Bioware. I'm not happy with the way things are done, but the discussion about this matter is over since It isn't getting us anywhere.


David, a common public relations strategy used by many game developers when dealing with complaints by customers is getting on the same side as them.

Lets say a game was released and it fell short on answering some of the fans expections.
A great startegy would be to post as dev member saying how he is dissapointed he didn't get enough budget to fulfill all of the things the fans wanted to see. Saying he feels for the fans and he has to live with that himself too.
This creates a lot of symphaty towards the Dev poster and quells the flames at the forums.
It creates a feeling that some unkown party is the source of all the wrongs, and posting about it just makes the dev guy sad and evantually annoyed since he can't do anything about it and suffers just like the fans. We're all in the same boat.

Are you aware of such strategies?

I want to add that if you are posting as just a dev guy, don't feel obliged to answer my complaits about the budget.
I'm posting about Bioware in general, hoping that someone that is influencing the budget or can speak in their behalf will reply. I would never blame you for any of these things now that I know you are a dev guy.

Final words - I really do enjoy Bioware work lately, and I think a little critisim and opionions from customers will make
to keep Bioware's games great in the future to come. I do not think Bioware are doing something just to ****** me off or that they are doing a bad job or that the expantion is going to be a bad game. I just feel it could have been a little better and richer, and wanted to say why.

<3<3<3

Can't you just do multiple posts instead...?

[grieferbastard]

It's worth noting that BioWare certainly is focusing the game in a place a whole ton of their fans want it to go - the core storyline. Love interests are fun and all but if you want to WooHoo for a couple hours you can play the Sims 3. What makes Dragon Age unique is the story it's telling, the core of which is the Grey Wardens vs the Darkspawn. Which is exactly what Awakenings is pointed at. It's not Dragon Age 2, nor even Dragon Age: Origins - Part 2.

Everyone has something they want out of a game. It's always a good thing when someone takes the time to identify what they really want, it helps you define what you're looking for.

Me, I'll take the love interests in full story format. Trying to squeeze a legitimate relationship into an expansion would feel a bit cheap to me. Not to mention what the costs of adding in more Screen Actors Guild voice acting. I'll drop $40 on a good expanion pretty happily but would I go $60 in order for it to have an extra 30 minutes of conversation content? Given that I might not even see the content based on gender/relationships and such I'd go with 'no'.

Of course, if you want the perfect game you can always offer to buy BioWare from EA! As far as I can tell it's about 180 people, two locations (Texas and Canada! Summer and winter offices!) and they were listed in the top 10 places to work in 2008 - which is a pretty big deal. Thanks to the wonders of the Interwebs you can pretty easily look over EAs financials. I would suspect from what I see there that BioWare is a healthy chunk of black ink for EA and they'll probably want a lot more than the $870 million they paid in 2007. Given their recent cash flow ills I'd make sure I've got a full ten figures in my bank account before I send my lawyers/accountants over to EA with the offer.

I've no doubt that the fine folks at BioWare would be giddy to just blow off budget concerns and market considerations and just go nuts to make the perfect game. The computer game industry runs on tight margins of profit and is one of those fields filled with people who do the work because they love it - not because they just want some job to pay the bills. This is important because it means you can force them to work harder for less money! It's like teachers and artists. I'd bet you cash money just about everyone on the dev team for DA has had their loyalty/satisfaction in their jobs bought off at least once by just letting them have their way on some aspect of creative license. In every other industry they'd get a raise or bonus or stock option.

Segue aside.

I'm looking forward to an expansion of the core storyline. I'm sure a lot of the ideas and concepts it introduces will carry forward into into Dragon Age 2. I guess I'm not hung up enough on any one particular character/set of choices that it would keep me from enjoying a cool story, or addition to a cool story. To each their own though.