191 réponses à ce sujet

[Rixxencaxx]

this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....



EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...



Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

[Bathead]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to dis anyone, but all these complaints about what's not in Awakenings seem like petty nit-picking to me. None of what has been announced about it seems unreasonable. To me, anyway.

[Feraele]

Siradix wrote...

nerdage wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Siradix wrote...
But will we ever see romances again, like for DA2?

Maybe, maybe not. Dragon Age is about epic tales set in Thedas, not about the Origins PC and her romances. There's no guarantee that you'll be playing the same character, never mind seeing NPC's carry forward.

Don't tell me these forums might be in for another beating come DA2, I do hate to see innocent websites suffer so..

lol That's going to happen for every squeal/expansion for DA:O.

And thats a good sign...if the forums are exploding then Bioware knows that they have struck chords with their gamers...their gamers care about the story AND the game.    Thats the point I think...the bottom line.

If we didn't care,  none of us would spend time posting our concerns.   And it would mean that the story had fallen flat..didn't mean anything.

[Feraele]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....

EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...

Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

To be honest..the game I have played thus far, shows alot of hard work has taken place to create it.   Whether or not EA is behind the mercenary aspects of that or not.   And to tell the truth, as all gaming companies are businesses with budgets allocated for each specific project, they pretty much have to try to stay within those budgets, in order to get the nod from the parent company to keep producing.

I can see both sides..but sometimes I get caught up in the..but why Bioware?   But thats only because I do care about the game.

Hook, line and sinker.

[SamboScoots]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

Sandtigress wrote...

HugThePiggy wrote...

The new characters don't look nearly as interesting as the old ones did. Vallana seems like a more hateful version of Morrigan, and Anders seems like a more troublesome version of allistair. I'm sure that they are so much more than what can be seen in the trailers, but it's still hard to be aware that these people are going to replace your old team.
Now, I know that the new characters would probably grow on me the same way the old ones did, but it would be nice to be able to take one of your old favorites.

Isn't this kind of how life is though?  We have to say good bye to old friends for various reasons, and we find new ones along the way who don't replace the old friends but who are good in their own ways as well.

Our Wardens are moving on to a new stage in life as Warden Commander of Ferelden.  That's going to necessitate some changes in relationships, I would think.  As long as there are good, valid, believable reasons why various companions aren't around, I'm all for meeting the new ones.

after only a few months no no it isn't

Actually it is. Have you graduated high school, college, found a new job in a new city, moved away as a child for various reasons? All of these events can force you to make a new set of friends in only a couple of months (or less).

You may not lose your old friends, but they wont be along side you to take part in your newest adventure. They may return, but the fact is not all of them can be with you during this new part of your life.

Work forced me to spend eight months away from my wife. It sucked, but one day we were side by side living together, the next we were some 1,000 kilometres away. So to summarize -- Yes, this is kind of how life is.

[Kakimori]

David Gaider wrote...

Kakimori wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I fail to see where I suggested that a sequel to DAO would be devoid of romance.

You seemed to suggest that it MIGHT not have romance, because the focus was to be on epic tales set in Thedas (a not ignoble goal) rather than a character's romances.  Perhaps I misunderstood.

No... what I was asked was whether you might see the DAO romances (as in those particular characters) returning in the future -- such as in a potential sequel. I said maybe, but there's no guarantee of that just as there's no guarantee you're even playing your DAO character in the future. Dragon Age games are about epic tales set in Thedas, not the character you played in DAO or the romances you had in DAO. I did not suggest we might not have any romance whatsoever.

Well, I'm sorry to say that you DID suggest that, when you said 'maybe, maybe not' to the question of whether we would ever see romances again.  But I'll accept that it's been a misunderstanding.

It seems to me that Awakening is essentially not an expansion of Origins.  It's a new short game, set temporally in the aftermath of Origins.  If it were an expansion of Origins, it would be indefensible not to have the same weapons, armour, characters, etc.  If it's a new short game, why, anything goes.  That's probably a much better way to frame it.

[Cutlass Jack]

Rixxencaxx wrote...

this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....

EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...

Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

That's my feeling as well. Buying it is like encouraging them to take the lazier route in future Dragon Age and Mass Effect projects, and just ignore your relationships from the previous games.

And yes, 'Cameos' don't cut it, Bioware.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 21 février 2010 - 04:10 .

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...

this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....

EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...

Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

That's my feeling as well. Buying it is like encouraging them to take the lazier route in future Dragon Age and Mass Effect projects, and just ignore your relationships from the previous games.

And yes, 'Cameos' don't cut it, Bioware.

Obviously you have no idea of the work and money that goes into creating companions.

Back in the days of BG and BG2 companions were simplier... you could romance them... but the romance was pretty cut and dry and in the case of two romance options, broken.

Now companions are far deeper. look and Leliana, Multiple ways to get in her pants, you can harden her or not, you can have a lesbian releationship with her, she can die, and she has multiple endings.

Now companions are far deeper and more intresting then ever, but it's a trade off, now their so deep it's a HUGE undertaking to bring the back in sequals let alone smaller expansions.

Implanting Leliana or other such romance options would be incredibly difficult, time consuming, and expensive, and chances are even then they wouldn't be able to do her justice.

You demand and expect something too great, and then whine when you don't get it.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 04:48 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Wishpig wrote...

So complaining about it is useless whining because it's not gonna happen.

Not at all. They put those relationships in, not me. They put the endings in that left things open. Not me. They chose to put out expansions that ignored their own work. Not me. They could have ended Dragon Age in a way that left no question no one was coming back. They chose not to. Heck even the name 'Origins' implies its the start of your Warden's tale. Its not whining to expect that story to continue where it left off in a meaningful fashion.

Its entirely their decision if they want to rush something out for a quick cash grab. The only part I can choose is to not buy it. How Awakening is recieved will affect the decisions they make on future projects. Its not whining. Just logic.

As for your expense arguement, I don't buy it. Awakening's price tag is almost as much as the original game. I think most players, given a choice would have picked continuing with their old companions over the expense involved in creating new ones. If it were a half priced expansion, I'd agree you had a point.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 21 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[Nerdage]

I refuse to believe that the guys who worked on Origins for so long don't feel at least slightly invested in the story they've made. Certainly it's their job, first and foremost, but to suggest that they're all just trying to screw us over also suggests that they don't take any pride in the things they create, which I just don't believe.

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

So complaining about it is useless whining because it's not gonna happen.

Its entirely their decision if they want to rush something out for a quick cash grab. The only part I can choose is to not buy it. How Awakening is recieved will affect the decisions they make on future projects. Its not whining. Just logic.

As for your expense arguement, I don't buy it. Awakening's price tag is almost as much as the original game. I think most players, given a choice would have picked continuing with their old companions over the expense involved in creating new ones. If it were a half priced expansion, I'd agree you had a point.

Fine, you want to think that adding companions isn't that difficult or expensive, whatever. I can't stop you from being naive.

But their rushing nothing, it's been in development for a year.

They could have had enough money and time for a full sequel... and bringing back companions like Leliana would still take way to much time and cash. Hell, they didn't bring back the favorite companion from ME because it wouldn't be worth the time and effort.

Ironically it's because so much insane work was put into the companions that you want them back so much.

Next time around I hope they make companions shallow so you can have them brought back <_<

Bottom line, if you don't want to buy the expansion, and you think bioware's screwing us over, and all your doing is whining... why the hell are you still on these forums?

PS- I do think what your doing is whining and totally unproductive, because what you ask is not possible and something the devs have addressed and explained multiple times.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 05:08 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

A story doesn't need to have romances in order to be epic. Character development can still exist without romances. One can still experience emotions without romance. An RPG can be good without romances. So all this "Bioware doesn't care about story and emotions anymore" is just foolish.

Sure, romance is always a nice addition. But it isn't necessary for a story to be good. And if handled poorly and in a shallow way, romances can even hurt the story and not benefit it. Bioware and the writers know what they are doing. If they deem that they can make the plot interesting, complex and epic without romances, then so be it.

You can always choose not to buy it. But don't do that for the wrong reasons. Story, character development and emotions are still present in the game.

[Cutlass Jack]

Wishpig wrote...

Next time around I hope they make companions shallow so you can have them brought back <_<

Why wait? From what we've seen of our new Awakening companions, we're already getting that. At least they were honest that its probably the only game we'll see them in.

Bottom line, if you don't want to buy the expansion, and you think bioware's screwing us over, and all your doing is whining... why the hell are you still on these forums?

Sad rebuttal. Why? Because I'd like them to make the effort to make better expansions going forward instead of taking the easier route. And as the owner of multiple copies of Dragon Age, Mass Effect (and assorted DLC options) no one could say I don't care about Bioware.

But hey, if you want to settle for lesser products from them, that's completely your decision. Awakening is what it is and nothing will change that of course. But how its recieved may change future efforts.

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
Why wait? From what we've seen of our new Awakening companions, we're already getting that. At least they were honest that its probably the only game we'll see them in.

Oh, so now your bashing and judgeing characters off 30 second promos... ya thats a fair and smart move.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Sad rebuttal. Why? Because I'd like them to make the effort to make better expansions going forward instead of taking the easier route. And as the owner of multiple copies of Dragon Age, Mass Effect (and assorted DLC options) no one could say I don't care about Bioware.

But hey, if you want to settle for lesser products from them, that's completely your decision. Awakening is what it is and nothing will change that of course. But how its recieved may change future efforts.

It's not the easier route it's the only possible route. Lets see, whose right in this debait, the devs and common sense... or a forum goer named Cutlass Jack... hmmm tough call.

For someone that cares about bioware your sure harsh on one of their "lesser" products you've never laid hands on. If you did care, you would point what you think are flaws, listen and trust the devs (who are kind enough to answer every question they can), and not outright condemn the game.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Wishpig wrote...

Oh, so now your bashing and judgeing characters off 30 second promos... ya thats a fair and smart move.

All I saw were three characters I could make myself in the character generator with really uninspired dialogue. Considering promos are used to sell products, you usually try and use their best moments, right? Origins did a very good job of doing just that.

You're right. So very unfair of me. I apologize.

It's not the easier route it's the only possible route. Lets see, whose right in this debait, the devs and common sense... or a forum goer named Cutlass Jack... hmmm tough call.

For someone that cares about bioware your sure harsh on one of their "lesser" products you've never laid hands on. If you did care, you would point what you think are flaws, listen and trust the devs (who are kind enough to answer every question they can), and not outright condemn the game.

Hey for someone who thinks the Devs are doing everything right, why does my differing opinion matter to you so much? The product will stand on its own or it won't. Forums are meant for discussions. Not one sided praise-fests. I'm honestly quite glad the Devs were straight forward about the Expansion. It gave me a chance to cancel my two pre-orders and see what happens.

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to express my opinion that many of us would like to see their stories continue properly. Don't like it? Then don't come to these threads about it.

[SeanMurphy2]

I thought the ending had good resolution. It is probably slightly open ended to leave space for the player's imagination.

They won't be too specific. Like "You and Zevran bought a house in Denerim and had three children."


Just because there are new companions does not mean it is a lesser product. The DA:O companions go through a lot during the game. Maybe most of their story is told. And it would not be as interesting to needlessly keep bringing them back in each game just because they are popular.

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
Hey for someone who thinks the Devs are doing everything right, why does my differing opinion matter to you so much? The product will stand on its own or it won't. Forums are meant for discussions. Not one sided praise-fests. I'm honestly quite glad the Devs were straight forward about the Expansion. It gave me a chance to cancel my two pre-orders and see what happens.

But that doesn't mean I'm not going to express my opinion that many of us would like to see their stories continue properly. Don't like it? Then don't come to these threads about it.

Ha, me think their doing everything right? Hardley. Just cause I oppose you on this issue doesn't mean I have worries of my own. But I realize I don't have the finished product in my hands, and many of my worries have yet to be proven true or false. And ultimatly I don't know if the game is good... which is the most important thing of all. I don't like the price... but maybe the game will be worth it. I'm worried about the possible length... but maybe it will be longer then I fear.

however, bioware has yet to let me down, and since I do care about the company *as supposidly you do* I will give them the benefit of the doubt till given reason to do otherwise.

Your "opinion" is composed mostley of condemnation that brings nothing to the table.

1. You call the game a lesser product

2, You accuse the devs are trying to rush the game and cut corners.

3. By sticking to your companion argument your not only saying you know more about making a game then the devs but your also calling them liars.

You don't know if 1 or 2 is true and number 3 is a fact.

You've dug youself into a pit of ignorance. I take a very nuetral stand. I will point out my fears but not judge till I have played the game or at the very least read reviews and feedback.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 05:55 .

[balvan64]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...
this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....

EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...

Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

That's my feeling as well. Buying it is like encouraging them to take the lazier route in future Dragon Age and Mass Effect projects, and just ignore your relationships from the previous games.

And yes, 'Cameos' don't cut it, Bioware.

Both of these posts - Just what I'm feeling.
/Signed

[Herr Uhl]

There seems to be a notion that the characters from the original are the only ones that are any good, and if they do new ones, it's a marketing ploy. And yes, Bioware completely lost their ability to make characters between Origins and Awakening.

It's kind of like the notion that only the characters that you can romance are deep, the rest are shallow. And even if the ones you romance are shallow, the fact that you can kissyface with them makes them deep.

But I too liked the endings. I would like to meet more characters.

Edit: Considering how many people want Leli, Zev, Ali and Morrigan (for some unknown reason since she either left you or left you with a baby in her tummy) back, wouldn't the marketing ploy be bringing them back in a crappy fashion?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 21 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[WilliamShatner]

Wishpig wrote...

Oh, so now your bashing and judgeing characters off 30 second promos... ya thats a fair and smart move.

To be fair Subject Zero and Grunt were just as bad and shallow as their 30 second promos suggested...

[Rixxencaxx]

Wishpig wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Rixxencaxx wrote...

this sounds to me like a cash cow experiment....

EA said let's try to sell them a low budget expansion for 40$ and take a lokk at how many game fans will buy it...if it goes well we 'll launch a lot of low budget high priced expansions...

Really a great fan of dragon age. So for the sake of the saga i'll not buy the expansion.

That's my feeling as well. Buying it is like encouraging them to take the lazier route in future Dragon Age and Mass Effect projects, and just ignore your relationships from the previous games.

And yes, 'Cameos' don't cut it, Bioware.

Obviously you have no idea of the work and money that goes into creating companions.

Back in the days of BG and BG2 companions were simplier... you could romance them... but the romance was pretty cut and dry and in the case of two romance options, broken.

Now companions are far deeper. look and Leliana, Multiple ways to get in her pants, you can harden her or not, you can have a lesbian releationship with her, she can die, and she has multiple endings.

Now companions are far deeper and more intresting then ever, but it's a trade off, now their so deep it's a HUGE undertaking to bring the back in sequals let alone smaller expansions.

Implanting Leliana or other such romance options would be incredibly difficult, time consuming, and expensive, and chances are even then they wouldn't be able to do her justice.

You demand and expect something too great, and then whine when you don't get it.

well..this is my point
Dragon age is a really good rpg because it comes with a really immersive story and really detailed characters.
It's not about romance, you can't romance sten but for sure he is a great character. The best part of dragon age is interaction between you and your party and again between party members.
All of this brough to live a world. When the game ends you care about alistair, leliana, morrigan cause they were so good that almost came to life.
Romance is only a good addition to that.
If you strip deep character interaction from dragon age, then you have a modest hack n'slash with old graphics.
Return to oastagar is an example of what dragon age could have been without o with limited character interaction.
So this is my point.
All i've read about awakening made me think that the entire expansion is based on slashing monsters, find uber equipment ed level up.
The new characters look undetailed and rushed.
For sure, dragon age world is expensive, you have to create crossroads and different paths and reactions. A lot of lines of dialogue and a living, pulsating fantasy world.
But THIS is dragon age and this is the reason why the suppose we will spend 40$ for it.
But awakening is different, and the first previewers  reactions confirm this.
If i want a fantasy hack n.slash...then i'll wait diablo3.

PS
sorry for bad english, it is not my motherlanguage

[Cutlass Jack]

Wishpig wrote...

Your "opinion" is composed of condemnation that brings nothing to the table.

1. You call the game a lesser product

2, You accuse the devs are trying to rush the game and cut corners.

3. By sticking to your companion argument your not only saying you know more about making a game then the devs and your calling them liars.

You've dug youself into a pit of ignorance.

Umm. Nice try. Really.

The game is a lesser product by the devs own words actually. Not mine. They make no secret of the fact they cut out alot in this game that normally goes into a Bioware product. Thats why these topics exist in the first place.

And while its not at all relevant to this topic, but you keep bringing it up like it matters. Yes I do have very direct knowledge about what goes into making games and their budgets. More than I'd like really. So I do understand constraints both creatively and financially. But I also know that from the consumer side, both products are priced nearly the same.

When did I call them Liars anyway? I applauded their honesty about the product. I just commented that in my opinion, the new companions look very lackluster compared to the old. Don't blame me. The promos should be getting us excited about getting the product to see them. By their own words they won't have the depth of potential relationship either. Which is fine. I could care less personally about new romances. But it does mean in all likelyhood I'll be less emotionally attached to the new batch. Especially since its unlikely they'll ever continue beyond Awakening.

[Lord Spike Terra]

Well Bioware knew me enough to choose Oghren for me, thank you bioware

[worksa8]

Would be a nice feature, but I think I'll live without. It's mostly just imagining all the banter/story options that would have to be added- so all these new companions would likely be removed anyways. There is only so much they can do, plus I like the idea of new companions and new things.

[balvan64]

Wishpig wrote...
listen and trust the devs (who are kind enough to answer every question they can), and not outright condemn the game.

I though I could avoid commenting about this subject, but it seems that I can't hold myself any longer.
I really don't understand all of the "thank you mighty dev people, It's just unbelievably generous of you to take some of your unimaginably precious time and write to us".

(This isn't coming from MR. Wishpig alone at all).

What you are seeing here is some pre-lunch publicty for the expanstion.
These Dev people are wrting here because it is their job. It's part of Bioware publicty startegy before the lunch and there is nothing wrong with it either. In a way, these people work for you guys. You pay money for their games and from that money they get their salaries. It's just like that the people working in the gym you attend work for you indirectly. Yet, at the gym, you don't gravel at their feet for them to fix a machine or clean up the bathrooms. Interesting...

This is not to say that they work for you in any demeaning way or that they are some sort of servents.
I myself have customers and I Provide services to them. Knowing that they pay me money every month I treat them accordinaly and they don't seem all that surprised when I answer their calls or return their mail.

I want you guys to try and think back to the time when DA:O was released and lots of windows 7 users were crushing to their desktops left and right. I would much appreciated the Dev guy precious time back then giving workarounds on the forums, instead of the eerie silence.

Love Wishpig, you might have been quoted here, but you're not a fault. I have no quarrel with you.

<3<3<3

Modifié par balvan64, 21 février 2010 - 06:17 .