191 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

And while its not at all relevant to this topic, but you keep bringing it up like it matters. Yes I do have very direct knowledge about what goes into making games and their budgets. More than I'd like really. So I do understand constraints both creatively and financially. But I also know that from the consumer side, both products are priced nearly the same.

When did I call them Liars anyway? I applauded their honesty about the product. I just commented that in my opinion, the new companions look very lackluster compared to the old. Don't blame me. The promos should be getting us excited about getting the product to see them. By their own words they won't have the depth of potential relationship either. Which is fine. I could care less personally about new romances. But it does mean in all likelyhood I'll be less emotionally attached to the new batch. Especially since its unlikely they'll ever continue beyond Awakening.

Ya... you know what goes into making games and their budgets <_<. Forum anonymity isn't it great? I'm an astronaut!

You more or less claim that it is very possible for them to bring back the old companions, that there merely being cheap. They have stated the excat opposit, by countinueing this debait and sticking to your guns your calling them liars.

I like how you ultimatums are slipping to the wayside as you change into a more open-minded skin.

balvan64 wrote...

I though I could avoid commenting about this subject, but it seems that I can't hold myself any longer.
I
really don't understand all of the "thank you mighty dev people, It's
just unbelievably generous of you to take some of your unimaginably
precious time and write to us".

As most forum goers can tell you. Official forums tend to be very hostile places. Full of people ripping on the devs and game alike. These devs, who work hard to bring us good products (and like someone pointed out, I really do beleave they want to make a good game) get little appreiation on forums and their hard work gets even less.

The fact their willing to put up with all the hostility and calmily and politly respond says allot. And bioware devs respond more frequently and in greater numbers then most forums I've visited.

So they do deserve a few pats on the back

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 06:23 .

[balvan64]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

So complaining about it is useless whining because it's not gonna happen.

Not at all. They put those relationships in, not me. They put the endings in that left things open. Not me. They chose to put out expansions that ignored their own work. Not me. They could have ended Dragon Age in a way that left no question no one was coming back. They chose not to. Heck even the name 'Origins' implies its the start of your Warden's tale. Its not whining to expect that story to continue where it left off in a meaningful fashion.

Its entirely their decision if they want to rush something out for a quick cash grab. The only part I can choose is to not buy it. How Awakening is recieved will affect the decisions they make on future projects. Its not whining. Just logic.

As for your expense arguement, I don't buy it. Awakening's price tag is almost as much as the original game. I think most players, given a choice would have picked continuing with their old companions over the expense involved in creating new ones. If it were a half priced expansion, I'd agree you had a point.

Completely agree with every word.

[worksa8]

I never understood that, people could push for changes- but they would rather suck up and forget they are paying for this, and ignoring the people more (Or even less) can cause it's sale to drop- they have to choose things from what people want. I mean, some people want things that just won't work with the game you know? But some things people want...and they just don't add because it might take too long, that will hurt the sales.

Wishpig actually has some points though, despite being rather...loud at times. I mean, if they are unable to add something because technically it's impossible, you can't really hold it against them. (Keep in mind that they have to make this work with console AND PC, unlike some of their other RPGS)

Modifié par worksa8, 21 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Oh, so now your bashing and judgeing characters off 30 second promos... ya thats a fair and smart move.

To be fair Subject Zero and Grunt were just as bad and shallow as their 30 second promos suggested...

That's your opinion. I thought Subject Zero was a pretty deep character, probably my favorite of the new characters. Grunt is also a very interesting character. Half because of his origins and half because it's interesting to hear him talk about how he's shifting through all the chaotic images and words Okeer put in his head and try to make something out of all of it as he tries to find his own personality, opinions and beliefs.

[Hugmejohnny]

Wishpig wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

And while its not at all relevant to this topic, but you keep bringing it up like it matters. Yes I do have very direct knowledge about what goes into making games and their budgets. More than I'd like really. So I do understand constraints both creatively and financially. But I also know that from the consumer side, both products are priced nearly the same.

When did I call them Liars anyway? I applauded their honesty about the product. I just commented that in my opinion, the new companions look very lackluster compared to the old. Don't blame me. The promos should be getting us excited about getting the product to see them. By their own words they won't have the depth of potential relationship either. Which is fine. I could care less personally about new romances. But it does mean in all likelyhood I'll be less emotionally attached to the new batch. Especially since its unlikely they'll ever continue beyond Awakening.

Ya... you know what goes into making games and their budgets <_<. Forum anonymity isn't it great? I'm an astronaut!

You more or less claim that it is very possible for them to bring back the old companions, that there merely being cheap. They have stated the excat opposit, by countinueing this debait and sticking to your guns your calling them liars.

I like how you ultimatums are slipping to the wayside as you change into a more open-minded skin.

Wishpig ur on a quest to sway people's opinions in a more positive direction. Admirable cause, but useless. People like cutlass jack can't be swayed like u said he has already passed judgement. You can't sway arrogance and you can't make people open-minded. I give you a hug and a kiss for ur efforts though! If the game is good and chances it will be then cutlass jack will have to eat his words and oh how pleasent that day will be!

Modifié par Hugmejohnny, 21 février 2010 - 06:31 .

[balvan64]

Mass Effect 2 Was like an Hack&Slash version of DA:O.
Much Less Characters' depth, only lots of hide behind a box and shot big evil mantis.

I don't want future Bioware projects to be as shallow.
I think DA:O should set the standard, and future products should make progress and set a higher standard each time, not go backwards.

Modifié par balvan64, 21 février 2010 - 06:34 .

[Wishpig]

Hugmejohnny wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

And while its not at all relevant to this topic, but you keep bringing it up like it matters. Yes I do have very direct knowledge about what goes into making games and their budgets. More than I'd like really. So I do understand constraints both creatively and financially. But I also know that from the consumer side, both products are priced nearly the same.

When did I call them Liars anyway? I applauded their honesty about the product. I just commented that in my opinion, the new companions look very lackluster compared to the old. Don't blame me. The promos should be getting us excited about getting the product to see them. By their own words they won't have the depth of potential relationship either. Which is fine. I could care less personally about new romances. But it does mean in all likelyhood I'll be less emotionally attached to the new batch. Especially since its unlikely they'll ever continue beyond Awakening.

Ya... you know what goes into making games and their budgets <_<. Forum anonymity isn't it great? I'm an astronaut!

You more or less claim that it is very possible for them to bring back the old companions, that there merely being cheap. They have stated the excat opposit, by countinueing this debait and sticking to your guns your calling them liars.

I like how you ultimatums are slipping to the wayside as you change into a more open-minded skin.

Wishpig ur on a quest to sway people's opinions in a more positive direction. Admirable cause, but useless. People like cutlass jack can't be swayed like u said he has already passed judgement. You can't sway arrogance and you can't make people open-minded. I give you a hug and a kiss for ur efforts though! If the game is good and chances it will be then cutlass jack will have to eat his words and oh how pleasent that day will be!

Your right it just gets under my skin how negitive people can be. Which ironically works me up into an angry fury resulting in pissed posts from me.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 06:36 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Wishpig wrote...

Ya... you know what goes into making games and their budgets <_<. Forum anonymity isn't it great? I'm an astronaut!

You were the one who insisted I knew nothing about it. Not I. You were the one who erroneously decided that no game designer could ever actually game themselves. All I said is it doesn't matter on the consumer end of things. Who you are behind the screen has nothing to do with anything.

You more or less claim that it is very possible for them to bring back the old companions, that there merely being cheap. They have stated the excat opposit, by countinueing this debait and sticking to your guns your calling them liars.

I like how you ultimatums are slipping to the wayside as you change into a more open-minded skin.

It was entirely possible. They could have taken exactly the same budget they put on a new character and applied it to an old one instead. Note that I'm not saying including them in addition to the new characters. Hard concept I know.

I do think at the very absolute minimum they could have kept Dog in without greatly overtaxing their budget. And he should have been a no-brainer to include to begin with. He's the one 100% loyal character with no where else he'd willingly go.

[worksa8]

Well to be honest- your arguments are flat. How can you expect to sway someone by just insulting them? Better yet, why do you care? You can say your piece politely, and if they chose to listen that's great- if not, then forget it and move on.

What I mean is it matters to them, even if it seems like the stupidest thing on the planet to you- but until you realize that, you can expect a lot of arrogance on others behalf.

[Cutlass Jack]

Hugmejohnny wrote...

 If the game is good and chances it will be then cutlass jack will have to eat his words and oh how pleasent that day will be!

Would be a pleasant day for me too! I absolutely want nothing more than Bioware to prove me completely and utterly wrong.

[SamboScoots]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

A story doesn't need to have romances in order to be epic. Character development can still exist without romances. One can still experience emotions without romance. An RPG can be good without romances. So all this "Bioware doesn't care about story and emotions anymore" is just foolish.
Sure, romance is always a nice addition. But it isn't necessary for a story to be good. And if handled poorly and in a shallow way, romances can even hurt the story and not benefit it. Bioware and the writers know what they are doing. If they deem that they can make the plot interesting, complex and epic without romances, then so be it.
You can always choose not to buy it. But don't do that for the wrong reasons. Story, character development and emotions are still present in the game.

I like the way you think, KnightofPhoenix. This statement should go into every no romance thread in this forum.

[Wishpig]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
It was entirely possible. They could have taken exactly the same budget they put on a new character and applied it to an old one instead. Note that I'm not saying including them in addition to the new characters. Hard concept I know.

I do think at the very absolute minimum they could have kept Dog in without greatly overtaxing their budget. And he should have been a no-brainer to include to begin with. He's the one 100% loyal character with no where else he'd willingly go.

Ok, now we're back to a nice simplier debait. Back on track!

No... it would have taken allot more time and money to bring back an old character. Think about all the diffrent ways their story could have branched off. They would need to account for all possibilities, which would be incredibly difficult. For example, in one of my playthroughs I never picked up Leliana... so if we're truly trading off, I would be short one of the six possible characters from the get go. In another game Leliana's epilogue explained what happened to her long after I died and hinted at suicide... that would need to be thrown out the window. These are only two of the many possible outcomes that would need to be implanted and accounted for.

Your little sarcastic jab stung me deep down inside.

They explained why dog isn't in. Dog needs allot of cutscenes and depends on many character interactions to really flesh him out. He is yet another character who can be fairly easily left behind and killed. So the money and time and effort that would go into brining him to life (a difficult task considering he cant even talk) would go to waste on a considerable amount of gamers.

Not to mention dog would need a s***load of new skills and items unique to himself, all nicely balanced and intresting, to account for the new levels. How many things can a dog possibly do in combat?

My point is even a companion seemingly as simple as dog can be a b*** to implant... get the pun?

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

balvan64 wrote...

Wishpig wrote...
listen and trust the devs (who are kind enough to answer every question they can), and not outright condemn the game.

I though I could avoid commenting about this subject, but it seems that I can't hold myself any longer.
I really don't understand all of the "thank you mighty dev people, It's just unbelievably generous of you to take some of your unimaginably precious time and write to us".

(This isn't coming from MR. Wishpig alone at all).

What you are seeing here is some pre-lunch publicty for the expanstion.
These Dev people are wrting here because it is their job. It's part of Bioware publicty startegy before the lunch and there is nothing wrong with it either. In a way, these people work for you guys. You pay money for their games and from that money they get their salaries. It's just like that the people working in the gym you attend work for you indirectly. Yet, at the gym, you don't gravel at their feet for them to fix a machine or clean up the bathrooms. Interesting...

This is not to say that they work for you in any demeaning way or that they are some sort of servents.
I myself have customers and I Provide services to them. Knowing that they pay me money every month I treat them accordinaly and they don't seem all that surprised when I answer their calls or return their mail.

I want you guys to try and think back to the time when DA:O was released and lots of windows 7 users were crushing to their desktops left and right. I would much appreciated the Dev guy precious time back then giving workarounds on the forums, instead of the eerie silence.

Love Wishpig, you might have been quoted here, but you're not a fault. I have no quarrel with you.

<3<3<3

I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. It is in no way, shape or form in a developer's job description to come on these forums and answer your questions at all. This should be obvious by visiting any other official forum for a game. If all they wanted to do was create publicity, the only people we would see commenting on these forums from Bioware are the community team like Chris and Victor. However, Bioware devs have always taken time, both from work and their own personal leisure time, to answer questions from the community, both before launch and after launch, to answer even trivial things. Bioware devs answer more questions before the launch of a game but the reason for this is simple. Fans know less about the game before it launches and have more questions than after they have the game and know pretty much everything.

Also, it should be noted that the tech support forums are mostly for self help. Though devs may reply to a few issues, it's mostly there for the community to help itself because in some cases, it's quicker than going through the proper channels to get official support. If you are serious about getting tech support from Bioware themselves directly, you have to go through the proper tech support channels, which I'm guessing is now the EA support system.

[grieferbastard]

Am I the only person who reads more than one thread? David Gaider already posted somewhere else about the topic, pretty much laying out that the original cast were some very talented, very expensive people to pay for their time and dialog. Also that trying to fit continuing romance options for two genders interacting with four people based off of prior dialog choices into an already busy story would have felt shoehorned. If they are going to include romance level interaction it deserves.

He also backed up stuff most of us have been saying all along. I believe the exact words are 'an expansion is going to sell a fraction as many as the original game and the longer it takes to release the lower those sales will be' or to that effect. So the development and release cycle was likely set along with the budget over a year ago and the price per unit must be relatively higher to account for the lower sales.

It sounds like Awakenings is a more action-oriented release. Which as a subset of gamers is generally a larger but less vocal group. For all the people ****ing about the 'lack of RP' in ME2 it's sold how many millions of copies and got rave reviews. It also seems to add a lot of core story about the Darkspawn and their nature. Not to mention some new badguy options - I'd hate to think that Dragon Age 2 is going to involve another Archdemon.

Did I see some guy up above accusing someone of being a shill for BioWare? Seriously? Because they actually trusted BioWare to release a good product based on the quality of what they've always released? I swear every time any game company releases something there's this batch of people crying that 'Woe! This is the begining of the end! Satan has taken over game development at company X and all they're going to do now is release crap and try to force people to buy it!' which is all rediculous and baseless.

This isn't BioWare trying to 'grab some cash'. This is obviously and blatantly an attempt to see if a long run of steady DLC is even financially viable. No other game has done it. Why, because DLC is so profitable? Is that why nobody ever does DLC for long or with any regularity? Also is creating a 120 hour long game, three times the length of the industry standard, a risk worth the reward? BioWare got lucky. Dragon Age got started when EA was in a 'lets put money into developing intellectual property and trying new ideas!' phase. Currently they've switched into a 'lets fire 1500 people, close several sites and trim all non-major franchise projects' phase.

Is DA an experiment of sorts? I'd say yeah. It bucks a lot of industry standards. I find it hillarious that a lot of people saying Awakenings isn't good enough effectively use the justification that DA was just such high quality content. So if DA had been shorter, less involved and of a lower quality then Awakenings would be a better deal. Then they say they won't buy it to try and somehow force BioWare/EA into a less profitable model.

Great job. Brilliant. The obvious impact on the market for that is clear and simple - the next game will be 40 hours long, industry standard, with the same level of voice acting (which is to say quite a bit less). They'll release 3 expansions over the next 3 fiscal quarters at $40 each and they'll each be 20 hours. So you'll get a game the same quality and length as Dragon Age but split into 4 pieces for a total price of $200 spread out over 12 months.

Which is the industry standard. Dragon Age has blown the roof off the industry standard. 120 hours out of the box. Amazing options and development choices. A toolset for players to make their own content. A steady trickle of DLC for at least a year, two or three Expansions and a half dozen or more smaller DLC. The real question is can that be made profitable? Will Dragon Age be profitable enough in this model for that to become the industry standard? Awakening almost certainly got its budget cut in Q3 or Q4 of last year. I'd be amazed if it didn't. EA announced cuts across the board. We'll never know what all content got dropped due to EAs financial woes. Maybe it'll end up recycled in some for to DA2. I hope so. The real question though is how much red ink or black ink is Dragon Age going to generate? Is an epic game design like this going to pay off or will future releases end up on the same road as the status quo?

Anyway. It's late February, EAs 10-Q and 10-K are already public. You want to know what costs are involved in game development and design go look them up. You could go one better and buy some stock in EA, which will get you a stockholders report yearly if not quarterly. Gaming company stock is always volitile though so I wouldn't recommend it as a retirement plan or anything. Try researching your opinions before you start throwing them around like they're facts.

[balvan64]

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...
I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. It is in no way, shape or form in a developer's job description to come on these forums and answer your questions at all. This should be obvious by visiting any other official forum for a game. If all they wanted to do was create publicity, the only people we would see commenting on these forums from Bioware are the community team like Chris and Victor.

I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...
Also, it should be noted that the tech support forums are mostly for self help. Though devs may reply to a few issues, it's mostly there for the community to help itself because in some cases, it's quicker than going through the proper channels to get official support. If you are serious about getting tech support from Bioware themselves directly, you have to go through the proper tech support channels, which I'm guessing is now the EA support system.

Have you tried the offical tech channals?
I could write about 25 pages about how worthless and insulting it is, but lets just say that for no reason what so ever should any of you attempt to try out the tech support offered for Bioware's games.

Modifié par balvan64, 21 février 2010 - 07:22 .

[SamboScoots]

grieferbastard wrote...

Anyway. It's late February, EAs 10-Q and 10-K are already public. You want to know what costs are involved in game development and design go look them up. You could go one better and buy some stock in EA, which will get you a stockholders report yearly if not quarterly. Gaming company stock is always volitile though so I wouldn't recommend it as a retirement plan or anything. Try researching your opinions before you start throwing them around like they're facts.

Electronic Arts Inc. (ERTS) closed at $16.75 on Feb. 19. One share is all you need to purchase for that information. It also gives you a say in how the company is run. Although one share will be more of a theoretical say, it will definately have a little more impact than whinning on a forum. 

[Rixxencaxx]

grieferbastard wrote...


It sounds like Awakenings is a more action-oriented release. Which as a subset of gamers is generally a larger but less vocal group. For all the people ****ing about the 'lack of RP' in ME2 it's sold how many millions of copies and got rave reviews. It also seems to add a lot of core story about the Darkspawn and their nature. Not to mention some new badguy options - I'd hate to think that Dragon Age 2 is going to involve another Archdemon.

well....talking about party interaction ME1 wasn't really different from the second one....
Mass effect franchise is action oriented and a i remember a bioware dev calling it a "shooter"into a gamespot video.
Dragon age is a niche game (large niche but niche...) and if they loose their core buyers then the franchise will close before dao2 is out.
Dao market is BG2 market. Baldurs gate serie sold more than 5 million copies. Icewind dale was the action-dumbed down version of bg and didn't sell as well as the original...
So...yes..bioware may sell an action oriented version of dao and call it awakening....but...good luck for your sales....

[grieferbastard]

balvan64 wrote...
I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

Yeah. I do. Most businesses do. They are given some general guideline (no private data, no future product data, you're not PR but you're allowed to share your personal opinions) and so long as they don't misbehave they can do and say what they want.

I've never known or worked for a business that did otherwise. Do you seriously think that anyone hires a big enough public relations team to keep an eye on every single thing their people do in public?

If he flips out and spews profanity at people and threatens to go to their houses and beat them up I'm sure the post would get deleted and he'd get a time out. Then again if he was the sort of person who'd ever behave that way in public he wouldn't be in the position he's in now, would he? 

I'm sure that they have some rules about who gets to post under a BioWare logo and who doesn't but what they post likely has some pretty loose restrictions. On par with anything else they say in public. No telling company secrets, no insider details, no giving the home address of the guy in the office who keeps irritating you in the hopes someone will stalk him.

Otherwise though why not just let them get on the forums and talk to people? It's worked very well for BioWare so far.

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

balvan64 wrote...

I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

Yes and No. I think public relations does look over their posts to make sure they are appropriate and not revealing anything that can't be said at the current point in time. But I don't think they bar anyone from posting as I think you imply a little. The thing is companies don't really need to bar any of their developers from posting on their forum. If they say something inappropriate or something they aren't allowed to say, the post will be modded and action will be taken against the developer/employee in question.

balvan64 wrote...

Have you tried the offical tech channals?
I could write about 25 pages about how worthless and insulting it is, but lets just say that for no reason what so ever should any of you attempt to try out the tech support offered for Bioware's games.

Woah, I said if you wanted to get official help, you'd have to go through the proper channels. I never said the actual channels are good. I fully agree wtih you on this point. Trying to get help from there is pretty useless. It's particularly annoying when you go through the trouble of explaining in detail what your probelm is and what you've tried to do to resolve it already and their response is for you to try something you just told them you tried to do already. Ugh!

[David Gaider]

balvan64 wrote...
I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

I am not "on your side", nor are you getting special attention. The forums exist to maintain a dialogue with the community, and I personally come here on occasion to offer some perspective or to correct misunderstandings -- which I have been doing for 10-odd years, now. If those of us who come here are forbidden from doing anything, it's discussing project details which haven't been publicly announced.

If you wish to conjure conspiracy theories and then demand that they be disproven, that's your business -- but I think you overestimate our need to court the approval of the people who come to these forums.

[PSUHammer]

grieferbastard wrote...

Am I the only person who reads more than one thread? David Gaider already posted somewhere else about the topic, pretty much laying out that the original cast were some very talented, very expensive people to pay for their time and dialog. Also that trying to fit continuing romance options for two genders interacting with four people based off of prior dialog choices into an already busy story would have felt shoehorned. If they are going to include romance level interaction it deserves......(snip)


Anyway. It's late February, EAs 10-Q and 10-K are already public. You want to know what costs are involved in game development and design go look them up. You could go one better and buy some stock in EA, which will get you a stockholders report yearly if not quarterly. Gaming company stock is always volitile though so I wouldn't recommend it as a retirement plan or anything. Try researching your opinions before you start throwing them around like they're facts.

This ^^^^

Dude...probably the most reasoned and enlightening post in this thread.  I was actually laughing at some of these posts about cost and worth of an expansion.  People have NO idea how basic economics (supply/demand) or the business side of game development works and are mouthing off here and calling people who challenge their crazy rants "fanboys" or "shills".   Rediculous...

Modifié par Hammer6767, 21 février 2010 - 07:42 .

[worksa8]

David Gaider wrote...

balvan64 wrote...
I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

I am not "on your side", nor are you getting special attention. The forums exist to maintain a dialogue with the community, and I personally come here on occasion to offer some perspective or to correct misunderstandings -- which I have been doing for 10-odd years, now. If those of us who come here are forbidden from doing anything, it's discussing project details which haven't been publicly announced.

If you wish to conjure conspiracy theories and then demand that they be disproven, that's your business -- but I think you overestimate our need to court the approval of the people who come to these forums.

I hope some remains though. To be honest I'm happy these forums exist because it lets people get what they think of things out there in the open, but in one area so that you can see what fans want. Be it sometihng unreasonable and easily ignored, or just a general concensus on something that could use improvement. It gives me mroe of a sense of "They might actualyl be listening and thinking some of these things over", and thats mroe then enough for me. Nto to long ago, we didn't even have that.

[PSUHammer]

David Gaider wrote...

balvan64 wrote...
I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

I am not "on your side", nor are you getting special attention. The forums exist to maintain a dialogue with the community, and I personally come here on occasion to offer some perspective or to correct misunderstandings -- which I have been doing for 10-odd years, now. If those of us who come here are forbidden from doing anything, it's discussing project details which haven't been publicly announced.

If you wish to conjure conspiracy theories and then demand that they be disproven, that's your business -- but I think you overestimate our need to court the approval of the people who come to these forums.

David, why do you even bother?  You know the vocal minority come here to complain and that the vast majority of people who play the game probably don't even realize a forum exists (my brother fits that bill) or thinks they are a waste of energy.

It's interesting in this gaming age that people "demand" that developers communicate with them.  Yet, when they try to, people just pick apart what they say.  Anyway...

David, I totally appreciate what you have created.  It's a wonderful piece of entertainment and great fantasy world.  I look forward to your future contributions.  Most people realize that it's your world we are playing in and take at face value.

I laugh to think of people telling Scorsese how he should direct his next film because "They" would be let down if he didn't do it their way.

[Kakimori]

David Gaider wrote...

balvan64 wrote...
I disagree, using the Dev people make people like you feel like they are getting "special" treatment and attention.
And after reading your post, it seem to have had the intended effect on you.

Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

I am not "on your side", nor are you getting special attention. The forums exist to maintain a dialogue with the community, and I personally come here on occasion to offer some perspective or to correct misunderstandings -- which I have been doing for 10-odd years, now. If those of us who come here are forbidden from doing anything, it's discussing project details which haven't been publicly announced.

If you wish to conjure conspiracy theories and then demand that they be disproven, that's your business -- but I think you overestimate our need to court the approval of the people who come to these forums.

He's right; the discussion some people are having on here is utterly ridiculous.  I assume that those people who are not public relations, and who post here on a regular basis (Mr Gaider included) are probably given a list of things NOT to talk about, and strongly ENCOURAGED to represent the game in as positive a light as possible, but they are not the robotic arms of some evil mega-corporation, despite the negative effects EA seems to be having on Bioware.  In Mr Gaider's case, I assume that he posts because he's put a hell of a lot of time into writing things, and he wants people to like and understand them.

[balvan64]

grieferbastard wrote...
Do you think that a software company who's games sells for millions across the world let just anyone who works for it get online and post his or her thoughts under a Bioware logo without being monitored by public relations?

Marketing is where I would Imgine a lot or even most of a game's budget goes to.
Nothing good is really good if it doesn't sell. Companies are spending millions on marketing campagins so I would imagine they would be more concerned about every word out of the mouth of a Bioware poster, even more than bugs in the software you're paying for.

And as you can see there are only handful of Bioware posters, probebly around 10, so it's really not a big deal monitoring them for a company that sells millions of copies.