147 réponses à ce sujet

[kirihara95]

drewsta1337 wrote...

How come some of you abilities are ready before the others, i play on the xbox and I have to wait for my all of my ability's  to recharge after using one and then I can use the others. It's quite annoying i must admit especially the Reaper fight cause i cant seem to kill him quick enough and have my team mates distract all the other enemies cause they dont go to cover when I tell them to lol. Nice vids by the way.

He was using his squadmate's abilities as well as his own and they were hotkeyed so he was able to use them without pausing

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Sarah Aran wrote...

You've had BioWare reps state time after time that they fully intend every class to have to use guns and abilities on Hardcore/Insane. You have your opinion on what the adept should be able to do, but it isn't shared by BioWare.

Actually, I did see ONE post by Christiana saying the official video about adepts was only meant for normal mode even though that was not specified in the video. Now she may have intended for every class to be forced to shoot, but the adept has no skills that help him shoot.

What I pointed out was weapons and ammo are stronger than biotics due to weapons and ammo not being gimped on higher difficulty levels. The soldier classes were specificly designed for shooting. Their passives and skills are designed around shooting.

Like I said, the soldier classes keep the same style of difficulty regardless of difficutly becuase they were designed around shooting and the adept was not.

[davidshooter]

Great video Gatsby - I loved it - thanks for posting it.

[Roxlimn]

Grumpy Old Wizard:



"Same style" nothing. The soldier hardly increases in difficulty of play at the higher levels compared to the lower! For most of the time, all you're doing is holding down the fire button longer. Yeah.



The Soldier class is EASY. That's NOT good. If I wanted a cakewalk, I'd play on Casual.

[Vikotoru]

Incredible videos... The only thing left is a no guns - suicide mission - soldier on insanity (without reave!)

I don't like "mine's bigger discussions" or derailing threads but, being a devoted engineer, after seing your videos and finishing my soldier-infiltrator playthrough I'm concluding that the engineer is the weakest class on ME2. Infiltrators and soldiers are incredible powerful; adepts and vanguards are incredible and sentinels gets better and better with each level and upgrade. Don't get me wrong, I love the engineer, you can see my youtube channel, but I'll would love something flashier to attract more people to the class.

Nevertheless, videos like yours are a jewel. Keep up the good job. As someone said; Less QQ and more pew-pew!

[Average Gatsby]

DirewolfX wrote...

@AverageGatsby: I have a challenge for you... come up with a viable strategy for Insanity that makes reasonable use of Shockwave. =D  I'd really like to see some strategies for using the less popular skills.

I can show you how to use it, but not with the adept, for the simple reason that singularity is just so good. However, consider this: Reaper IFF. Mordin Incineration blast. Jack With shockwave. You; any class. hehe.

[StaR_JeS]

Vikotoru wrote...

Incredible videos... The only thing left is a no guns - suicide mission - soldier on insanity (without reave!)

I don't like "mine's bigger discussions" or derailing threads but, being a devoted engineer, after seing your videos and finishing my soldier-infiltrator playthrough I'm concluding that the engineer is the weakest class on ME2. Infiltrators and soldiers are incredible powerful; adepts and vanguards are incredible and sentinels gets better and better with each level and upgrade. Don't get me wrong, I love the engineer, you can see my youtube channel, but I'll would love something flashier to attract more people to the class.

Nevertheless, videos like yours are a jewel. Keep up the good job. As someone said; Less QQ and more pew-pew!

I love the Engineer. I just finished a run on Insanity with my Engineer and I'd like to post some gameplay of the last couple of missions (IFF, Legion's loyalty quest, and the suicide mission.) I'm semi-aggressive/passive, but I definitely don't think the class is weak, and it can be a bit flashy. Legion and I do work with our drones!

Anyway, nice vids, Gatsby! I'm so glad I'm playing through with my Adept again. I was pretty conservative my first playthrough but you've given me some ideas.

[Phoenix_Steel001]

No guns, no pausing and punching Scions. You, sir, are my hero.



At this point anyone still complaining about biotics don`t want to be convinced of anything and they do not want to engage in any sort of reasoned debate on the issue. They just want to complain, which is fine if that is what they enjoy doing. Its all about the enjoyment.



Soldier ammo passives are consistent and strong but also a hell of a lot less fun to play, again, its all about the enjoyment.



Playing a Soldier through insanity is nothing to brag about IMO. Anyone could do it. To play an Adept through Insanity *and* dominate with it on the other hand.

[DirewolfX]

Average Gatsby wrote...

DirewolfX wrote...

@AverageGatsby: I have a challenge for you... come up with a viable strategy for Insanity that makes reasonable use of Shockwave. =D  I'd really like to see some strategies for using the less popular skills.

I can show you how to use it, but not with the adept, for the simple reason that singularity is just so good. However, consider this: Reaper IFF. Mordin Incineration blast. Jack With shockwave. You; any class. hehe.

Yeah, and Charge is so good for the Vanguard.  Sadly, I just don't see a use for Shockwave for Shepard on Insanity.  If it damaged shields like Scion shockwaves do, maybe it would see some use as a nuke like Warp, but as it is, I've never really found it useful.

[mundus66]

I don't see why you would play without guns at all tbh. It works, but pretty much every situation would be easier and more fun if you used both guns and powers. Great videos though.

Modifié par mundus66, 20 février 2010 - 10:19 .

[dissonance-zaon]

Phoenix_Steel001 wrote...

*snip*

At this point anyone still complaining about biotics don`t want to be convinced of anything and they do not want to engage in any sort of reasoned debate on the issue. They just want to complain, which is fine if that is what they enjoy doing. Its all about the enjoyment.

So a power heavy class that has 75% of their abilities completely ineffective isn't a valid argument? ...Okay. Don't get me wrong (and I'm not looking for a debate), Adept is as viable for Insanity as any other class is, just don't misunderstand the argument.

Good job on the videos, Average Gatsby. Unfortunately for me, I've seen nothing to convince me to return to my Adept ways. At least not on anything above Veteran. I was too much of a fan of the physical manipulation aspect of them and not how "effective" they can be. Ahh well I found solace in my Sentinel!

[Roxlimn]

dissonance-zaon:



Don't know about you, but when I played Adept, I used pretty much all the powers except Shockwave, and they were all pretty impressive in their own way. Might want to try fooling around with the powers a bit more.

[Average Gatsby]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

Phoenix_Steel001 wrote...

*snip*

At this point anyone still complaining about biotics don`t want to be convinced of anything and they do not want to engage in any sort of reasoned debate on the issue. They just want to complain, which is fine if that is what they enjoy doing. Its all about the enjoyment.

So a power heavy class that has 75% of their abilities completely ineffective isn't a valid argument? ...Okay. Don't get me wrong (and I'm not looking for a debate), Adept is as viable for Insanity as any other class is, just don't misunderstand the argument.

Good job on the videos, Average Gatsby. Unfortunately for me, I've seen nothing to convince me to return to my Adept ways. At least not on anything above Veteran. I was too much of a fan of the physical manipulation aspect of them and not how "effective" they can be. Ahh well I found solace in my Sentinel!

I think I need to mention to people that I actually never played adept on ME 1. I played Infiltrator and Engineer. So for me, adept seems very strong. But after watching some Insanity videos from ME 1, I realized that what people were probably expecting was adept to be a mega-instant-win class. I also would like to mention that in the videos, especially part 2, I use warp, sing, throw, and pull somewhat evenly, not including me using samara's pulls and thanes throws. Part 1 definitely could've used those more, but my fingers sort of naturally gravitate more often to 1 and 2 than 3 and 4, so I threw out some totally unnecessary warps and sings that a throw or pull would've been much better.

[dissonance-zaon]

Roxlimn wrote...

dissonance-zaon:

Don't know about you, but when I played Adept, I used pretty much all the powers except Shockwave, and they were all pretty impressive in their own way. Might want to try fooling around with the powers a bit more.

Were you playing on Hardcore or Insanity per chance? They're pretty ineffective on those difficulties last time I checked.

Modifié par dissonance-zaon, 20 février 2010 - 11:29 .

[Kronner]

Great work man! Hopefully this will shut-up all the whiners.

[Roxlimn]

dissonance-zaon:



Confession time. I've actually never played an Adept full through on any difficulty lower than Hardcore. Tried out the first few levels on Veteran, but restarted on Hardcore because it was too easy.



I've played it completely through on Hardcore - the first character with which I finished the game on four concurrent playthrough on Hardcore of Soldier, Infiltrator, Sentinel, and Adept. I just blazed through Hardcore with the Adept. Now, Soldier probably plays pretty fast, too, but I haven't finished that playthrough yet - too boring. Infiltrator was reasonably fast, but he gets bogged down when you have a lot of targets - you usually have to kill them one at a time.



Adept can kill multiple enemies nearly instantly on Hardcore and almost as fast on Insanity (depending on how good a shot you are, mostly). Pull and Throw feature prominently on why the Adept can clear levels so fast.

[dissonance-zaon]

Average Gatsby wrote...

I think I need to mention to people that I actually never played adept on ME 1. I played Infiltrator and Engineer. So for me, adept seems very strong. But after watching some Insanity videos from ME 1, I realized that what people were probably expecting was adept to be a mega-instant-win class. I also would like to mention that in the videos, especially part 2, I use warp, sing, throw, and pull somewhat evenly, not including me using samara's pulls and thanes throws. Part 1 definitely could've used those more, but my fingers sort of naturally gravitate more often to 1 and 2 than 3 and 4, so I threw out some totally unnecessary warps and sings that a throw or pull would've been much better.

Not so much a mega-instant-win class (quite the contrary) but just a completely different gameplay style that's akin to a Wizard type character. Of course you can force how you play but that's just a bandaid solution. Can't I have a challenge AND be able to Pull/Shockwave someone without going through 85% of their "life"? I understand the risk of being a mega-instant-win class because of that, but why go from one end of the spectrum to the other? Adepts just do not play anything like they did in the first... Some people call it balance; I call it extreme deformation.

Honestly, a third of the problem lies in the global cooldown system. Why waste a perfectly good Singularity/Warp by using a very ineffective Shockwave?

I think I've ranted enough about this. lol Sorry

[Roxlimn]

dissonance-zaon:



Not at all. At the very least, you're not throwing around random insults, and that's a breath of fresh air on any internet forum about gaming for young men. I've been guilty of a few shots myself.



That said, I DID play Adept on ME1 on Insanity and I have to confess that, again, my experience was completely different from yours. It WAS a mega-instant-win class. In fact, the Saren fight was, by far, the easiest on Adept because you could keep him locked down for pretty much as long as you needed to kill him. At least with Soldier, you needed to be something of a good shot, and you could get Sabotaged.



The Health bar on enemies in ME2's harder difficulties are by no means comprised of 85% defense 15% Health. That is quite far from the reality. In fact, for most enemies I've encountered - it quite the other way around. Most such defenses can be stripped by one application of a power, but the Health requires at least two, sometimes more. I use powers as an Adept to kill enemies not only because it's more fun, but also because it's usually faster than just gunning them down.

[trucoolbrees]

Don't exactly see what people are complaining about, I'm pretty sure insanity was designed to be .....oh I don't know ......difficult, And I'm also pretty sure it's designed not to allow you to do anything you want at any given time, hence the term insanity.

Keep up the good work Gatsby.

[_Dannok1234]

So a power heavy class that has 75% of their abilities completely ineffective isn't a valid argument?">

That would be a valid argument if it was actually the case. I mean what do you consider to be completely ineffective? For me that would be that the power of whatever class would have no effect against enemies.
This clearly isn't the case with Adepts. I'll agree that against shielded, armored/barrier enemies you have a limited number of powers that are effective, such as throw, warp and singularity.

However once that defense is taken down, all the powers can be used effectively. Now it's a good thing to note, that all the guns have something they are especially good at dealing with. None of them get a bonus against health. Since adepts do not have extensive ammo powers such as the soldier, you need to use your squad to get them in order to increase the effectiveness of your weapons. Several of your squad members are also able to specialize in taking down enemy defenses, if you pick the best team for each mission the defenses of enemies can be gone nearly instantly, allowing you to chose any power you wish to control/kill them.

Now I'm aware that this is more work to do then what you experience playing a soldier, infiltrator or vanguard. But that doesn't really mean the abilities of an Adept are useless, they are just different.

It's also an important thing to acknowledge that if powers worked as well on insanity as lower levels, it would not really be much of an increase in difficulty.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 20 février 2010 - 12:04 .

[dissonance-zaon]

Roxlimn wrote...

dissonance-zaon:

Not at all. At the very least, you're not throwing around random insults, and that's a breath of fresh air on any internet forum about gaming for young men. I've been guilty of a few shots myself.

That said, I DID play Adept on ME1 on Insanity and I have to confess that, again, my experience was completely different from yours. It WAS a mega-instant-win class. In fact, the Saren fight was, by far, the easiest on Adept because you could keep him locked down for pretty much as long as you needed to kill him. At least with Soldier, you needed to be something of a good shot, and you could get Sabotaged.

The Health bar on enemies in ME2's harder difficulties are by no means comprised of 85% defense 15% Health. That is quite far from the reality. In fact, for most enemies I've encountered - it quite the other way around. Most such defenses can be stripped by one application of a power, but the Health requires at least two, sometimes more. I use powers as an Adept to kill enemies not only because it's more fun, but also because it's usually faster than just gunning them down.

Oh I know the Adept was a mega-instant-win class in ME1, lol. I played it, I wont deny it. I just think they've deformed the class far too much for my likes.

I've played ME2 on Insanity and defense to health ratio on most enemies has to be around 2:1. I've used Throw with my Sentinel to finish enemies off... it's fun and conserves ammo. Problem is, the requirement to strip defenses holds true for 3/5 of an Adept's powers. That makes the majority of your abilities glorified finishing moves (not to mention very situational). And even then Singularity & Warp are competing for your global cooldown.

That's just the metagaming side; On the concept side of an Adept... It just doesn't feel right to me. To not be able to Throw a Husk a bazillion miles away when he's 2 feet away from me, due to armor.

Maybe it would've been nice to have an "effective range" type of system to Adepts and Vanguards specifically. Where any enemy within a certain distance can't withstand the biotic force? I get so giddy just thinking about that... That sounds like an Adept to me

Edit: Erm.. forgot to put in a point: I like the idea of stripping defenses to be MORE effective but as it stands right now it's a bit harsh to the aforementioned 3/5 abilities that's affected by them. It's like that whole Overheat/Ammo argument... What was wrong with meeting half way with some kind of hybrid system?

lol Now that I think about it, BioWare seemingly has a distaste for the "Neutral" path. But that's a discussion for a different thread

Modifié par dissonance-zaon, 20 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[Lycidas]

Okay I think by now we can all agree that the Adept can be played on insanity. But is this the way the Adept was meant to be played? I don't think so.

Why would I not be able to use Pull on an enemy just because it wears armor or has shields? That just does not make any sense to me. Some say it would be unbalanced but how would a Pull - Throw combo causing dead to a protected target be any more powerful than a Charge - shotgun or Cloak - sniper rifle kill. Now I agree this should not work on area Pull + area Thow but on one single target this would not cause any problems.

Now we have a dev saying that on Insanity every class is supposed to use weapons. And I think this shows a big flaw in this games design. Because this actually means that by design a class that is meant to use weapons on every difficulty will be less effected by playing on higher difficulties than a class that has no skills to make weapons more powerful at all.

[_Dannok1234]

Dissonance-zaon, no way that the ratio between defense to health on normal mobs is 2:1, for boss types with shield/armor then yes it's 2:1, but thats a boss, not your run of the mill enemy.

Lycidas
As to why pull+throw would be overpowered compared to how Charge is now, well Charge is very powerful and I would say borderline overpowered. However with that power comes a great deal of risk. Make one small mistake and you die. You can do pull+throw from cover, against enemies that are in cover, if they are in groups or alone, doesn't matter. So it would be an instant kill using no resources, and taking no risk, which to me seems like a bit much. Again, if it was this way on insanity, would it really be any more difficult then casual?

Modifié par Dannok1234, 20 février 2010 - 01:32 .

[Lycidas]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Lycidas
As to why pull+throw would be overpowered compared to how Charge is now, well Charge is very powerful and I would say borderline overpowered. However with that power comes a great deal of risk. Make one small mistake and you die. You can do pull+throw from cover, against enemies that are in cover, if they are in groups or alone, doesn't matter. So it would be an instant kill using no resources, and taking no risk, which to me seems like a bit much. Again, if it was this way on insanity, would it really be any more difficult then casual?

You need to get out of you cover twice to do it which is a way higher risk than using Cloak or Adrenaline Rush + sniper rifle and you can not use a Singularity to stop advancement of the other targets for the duration of both cooldowns. And if you talk about the risk of charging don't forget to mention that it is an instant refresh of your shields too.

Modifié par Lycidas, 20 février 2010 - 01:41 .

[_Dannok1234]

You don't really spend any significant amount of time out of cover using a biotic ability. Let's say you could use area pull on anyone you wanted, you spend what 0.5-1 second exposed, or you could do it while the enemy is hiding making it completely safe, unless you do it at 50% health or lower you take no risk. Doing it a second time is even less risky since the enemies you hit with pull are now floating harmlessly through the air.



Why would I need to mention that charge refreshes shields? It's a key thing with the ability and you will notice that it only refreshes you original shields not ncluding the bonus charge gives you. (assuming you need to use charge again to save your life from a previous charge) Nor does that change the fact that charge is very risky, you make one mistake and you are most likely dead. Unless of course you only use it to charge single enemies in areas where you cannot be hit by anyone else. But doing that is not much more then locking down a single target with singularity where no one else can shoot you.(which you can do now with how things work)



I still fail to see how it would not make insanity as easy as casual if it worked on protected enemies.