147 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

dissonance-zaon:



Disagree totally. The whole of game on Insanity does NOT revolve around removing defenses. As far as I can tell, enemies don't keel over when you strip their defenses.



For the most part, it's about killing them or controlling them. A simple class like Soldier or Infiltrator does not bother with the distinction because for the most part, they don't really care. They can easily spec whichever gun they prefer to kill anything and everything and not have to bother with the specifics of the thing, or even rudimentary tactics. Yes, I've done that. You can do really stupid things with a Soldier (like intentionally get flanked) and still blast through everything. It's a game design weakness, I think.



For an Adept, you have to pay closer attention. Playing an Adept mindlessly like you do a Soldier is what leads to these incorrect impressions. You can't use your powers on defended opponents to best effect so you assume that they're worthless and don't even try using them anymore.



Using a Warp or a Singularity on an opponent without defenses is a mistake because they're not as efficient as Pull or Throw against such enemies. It's not hard to remove defenses. You just have to think about it a little more. Not a lot more - just a little more. Why you would want all powers to work equally in all circumstances is frankly beyond me. Where's the fun in that? If every power can incapacitate defended enemies equally, then where's the tactics in applying the right one? They're ALL right. It's mindless spam.



If you want mindless, easy spam, Veteran accommodates you easily.



I used Pull and Throw in many encounters I had on Hardcore, again, not only because they were fun to use, but because using them was better than ANY alternative. In fact, I hardly used Warp in the Reaper IFF mission because it's BAD for that mission, except for the occasional use in speeding Scion kills (but not at the expense of Singularity!).



Players who play Adept who use nothing but Warp and Singularity are not thinking, and they're not playing the class efficiently. The fact that you can finish a lame crippled Adept on Insanity using Warp Spam just tells you how powerful the class really is.

[Lycidas]

Roxlimn

Do you even know just how arrogant you come across? This might be new to you but your opinion is not the only valid one in the universe.

[dissonance-zaon]

themaxzero wrote...

Just because we hear you does not mean we agree with you. If you have a problem with Biotics go make your own thread instead of bothering others. Better yet post nothing at all if all you have is whines and complaints. If its a real issue just mod your .ini and move on.

"I'm not happing with Biotics in ME 2 so i'm going to whine till everyone else is unhappy too!"

Sorry for wanting to discuss things with mostly intelligent people who've already proven me wrong in a lot of ways in this thread. Doesn't change my position but I enjoyed the enlightenment.

[themaxzero]

UseSharedPowerCooldown=TRUE

bShieldsBlockPowers=true

Just change these two words to false. PROBLEMS SOLVED!

To make it even easier:

http://tinyurl.com/yhnuj8j

Here is the Google search for the Mass Effect 2 Coalesced Compiler so you can edit your .ini simply and easily (hint: its the BIOGame.ini you need to edit).

It will take all of 30 seconds to do!

Modifié par themaxzero, 20 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[themaxzero]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

Just because we hear you does not mean we agree with you. If you have a problem with Biotics go make your own thread instead of bothering others. Better yet post nothing at all if all you have is whines and complaints. If its a real issue just mod your .ini and move on.

"I'm not happing with Biotics in ME 2 so i'm going to whine till everyone else is unhappy too!"

Sorry for wanting to discuss things with mostly intelligent people who've already proven me wrong in a lot of ways in this thread. Doesn't change my position but I enjoyed the enlightenment.

You have discussed, we don't agree, and you simply restating your opinion (as said by you) is not going to change that. Life goes on and so should you.

Modifié par themaxzero, 20 février 2010 - 09:49 .

[Roxlimn]

Lycidas:



I can't control my arrogant tone. It's a weakness I've had to live with for a long time now. That said, an Adept that's reduced to using only Warp and his guns IS a lame and crippled character - similar to a Soldier that's limited to using only his pistol and one ammo skill. You can still finish the game with such a character, it's just going to take a long time and it won't be very fun.

[dissonance-zaon]

themaxzero wrote...

You have discussed, we don't agree, and you simply restating your opinion (as said by you) is not going to change that. Life goes on and so should you.

And I've already stated that I was done with my argument and you're just exacerbating the issue.

Lycidas wrote...

Roxlimn

Do you even know
just how arrogant you come across? This might be new to you but your
opinion is not the only valid one in the universe.

I wouldn't call him (her?) arrogant. Roxlimn has made valid points. Maybe biased but didn't come across as arrogant to me. But I do agree with what you're trying to say.

[congokurtz]

Lycidas wrote...

Roxlimn

Do you even know just how arrogant you come across? This might be new to you but your opinion is not the only valid one in the universe.

I don't think he comes accross as arrogant.  If you find reasoned and articulated arguments arrogant then I suppose his posts might seem very arrogant to you. 

[themaxzero]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

And I've already stated that I was done with my argument and you're just exacerbating the issue.

If you are no longer enjoying this thread none of us would be particularly cut up if you decided to leave and we could get back to Gatsby's video (which is what this thread was about).

[dissonance-zaon]

Average Gatsby, do you have a video where you're going all out with the Adept on Insanity (akin to sinosleep's Vanguard videos)? I'd like to see it all in motion.

themaxzero wrote...

If you are no longer enjoying this
thread none of us would be particularly cut up if you decided to leave
and we could get back to Gatsby's video (which is what this thread was
about).

Instead of railing against me, maybe you should have a little patience and realize that I've already moved on. Geez.

Modifié par dissonance-zaon, 20 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[Roxlimn]

I don't believe that a request of that nature is out of the question. I've asked Average Gatsby much the same thing, actually, ever since his Sing/Warp heavy videos came online. They were a little too heavy-handed on the Sing and Warp, I thought. Not enough finesse.

[themaxzero]

Roxlimn wrote...

I don't believe that a request of that nature is out of the question. I've asked Average Gatsby much the same thing, actually, ever since his Sing/Warp heavy videos came online. They were a little too heavy-handed on the Sing and Warp, I thought. Not enough finesse.

From my experience I have found Area Reave/ Sing much better then Warp/Sing.

Cast the Sing first, enemies get trapped
Cast Area Reave (strip most if not all defences), enemies defenceless
Enemies all floating in Sing, gg.
Then Detonate if you want to.

Yes it does work on Insanity, brutally well in fact.

Also keep in mind in the Horizon videos (his first ones) he was like level 8 or so, you can't really expect him to have his points in a whole heap of abilities with such limited points.

Modifié par themaxzero, 20 février 2010 - 10:18 .

[Lycidas]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

I wouldn't call him (her?) arrogant. Roxlimn has made valid points.
Maybe biased but didn't come across as arrogant to me. But I do agree
with what you're trying to say.

Please stop it right there I did not call him anything I just told him how he comes across to ME.

Roxlimn wrote...

Lycidas:

I can't control my arrogant tone. It's a weakness I've had to live with for a long time now. That said, an Adept that's reduced to using only Warp and his guns IS a lame and crippled character - similar to a Soldier that's limited to using only his pistol and one ammo skill. You can still finish the game with such a character, it's just going to take a long time and it won't be very fun.

I am really trying to see your point but can't you understand why people feel like the class is crippled down to using Warp? People like me enjoy the Adept for its cowd control. I know I can use more than just Warp but if I want to do what makes the class fun to me I need to get rid of those defences first. If I have 2 targets flanking me from different sides and I can stop only one of them until I did whatever it takes to get rid of their armor I freaking feel crippled.
Now don't get me wrong I don't want to go back to the madness that was ME1. But I don't think having at least Pull and Throw doing what they are supposed to to even on protected (not the AE versions and not on barriers) targets would be to much to ask.

[VirtualAlex]

You can take a look at Gats's youtube channel. There are tons of videos of him GETTING SICK all over the game.

[dissonance-zaon]

Roxlimn wrote...

I don't believe that a request of that
nature is out of the question. I've asked Average Gatsby much the same
thing, actually, ever since his Sing/Warp heavy videos came online.
They were a little too heavy-handed on the Sing and Warp, I thought.
Not enough finesse.

It's only fair that I should see an Adept's true potential before I blab any more about it. While I did play mine, I never enjoyed it long enough to complete the run... that and it wasn't on Insanity, just Hardcore.

Lycidas wrote...

Please stop it right there I did not call him anything I just told him how he comes across to ME.

Most of what Roxlimn was saying was towards me so I thought I'd defend what I gathered from him. Didn't mean to offend you, just thought it was uncalled for.

[Lycidas]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

Please stop it right there I did not call him anything I just told him how he comes across to ME.

Most of what Roxlimn was saying was towards me so I thought I'd defend what I gathered from him. Didn't mean to offend you, just thought it was uncalled for.

You know I actually quite enjoy the discussion here but reading what he said made me want to shake him and this was my way to "politely" ask him to be nice to people that do not share his opinion.

[dissonance-zaon]

Lycidas wrote...

You know I actually quite enjoy the discussion here but reading what he said made me want to shake him and this was my way to "politely" ask him to be nice to people that do not share his opinion.

lol Oh I know. That's why I said I agree with what you were going for. But others have been far more rude to me than Roxlimn (which wasn't rude at all... tenacious is the word I'd go for, hehe). I guess "discussion" on a forum is out of the question for some.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Roxlimn wrote...

Lycidas:

I can't control my arrogant tone. It's a weakness I've had to live with for a long time now. That said, an Adept that's reduced to using only Warp and his guns IS a lame and crippled character - similar to a Soldier that's limited to using only his pistol and one ammo skill. You can still finish the game with such a character, it's just going to take a long time and it won't be very fun.

It is untrue to say you can't control how you treat people.  It's fun to talk down to others, isn't it? But if you talked to people in the real world like you type on the forums somebody would knock you on you butt. And of course if you really couldn't control the way you converse you would not be able to make it through school, hold down a job, or have any sort of relationship--friends or lovers.

Also, if everyone started using your tone the moderators could just shut down every thread after a few posts. Everybody knows how to insult people, most people just try to be civil to others.

The fact is that an adept on insanity will mostly have to cast singularity and warp. Now, on certain maps your adept will be able to get off a few more pulls or throws but overall your adept is casting mostly singularity and warp. Well, of course you can turn on a squad ammo skill and just kill stuff with guns, but then you are not really playing as an adept.

[Atheist Peace]

Lycidas:

"If I have 2 targets flanking me from different sides and I can stop only one of them until I did whatever it takes to get rid of their armor I freaking feel crippled."

I am going to assume you are talking about insanity here, since on any other difficulty this example would be trivial to deal with.  If you have allowed yourself to be flanked on two different side's by enemies whose protection is still up i don't think its at all unreasonable for the game to "punish" you for it. Why else have harder difficulty levels if you are not made to pay for your mistakes?

"Now don't get me wrong I don't want to go back to the madness that was ME1. But I don't think having at least Pull and Throw doing what they are supposed to to even on protected (not the AE versions and not on barriers) targets would be to much to ask."

I am glad we agree that a return to ME1 biotic's would be a very bad thing .Your suggested change would be far to extreme for me, I simply wouldn't be able to play the adept if throw/pull worked on protected enemies. The only change that i could live with is if heavy evolved pull knocked down armoured enemies(as long as all boss level mobs where immune) and possibly if shockwave knocked down moving enemies.

Grumpy Old Wizard:

Your laying it on a bit thick don't you think? Roxlimn is one of the better posters on here, his posts are typically well reasoned and civil, which is more than can be said for the majority of people on these boards.

"The fact is that an adept on insanity will mostly have to cast singularity and warp."

I just finished my 3rd  insanity play through as adept. My most used skill was pull, followed by singularity, i only used warp on boss fights.  I had no issues playing this way, and to be honest there was no discernable difference in kill speed. Now of course you can play through the game using only sing/warp, and in may cases it is optimal to do so. However there are also many cases it is not, which is why pull/throw exist. Shockwave is admittedly poor, but that is widely acknowledged, the rest of the adept's toolbox works just fine. 

[Average Gatsby]

so i'm on my crap winmo phone so i can't do a proper reply (in the fabric store with the fiance... : ) ) but this is in response to some comments on my underuse of throw and pull. I have a proposal: i'm going to make an optimum gameplay live video. i'll record the same section but with pausing and talking live about what i'm thinking. if it still is a warp sing fest, than so be it. i don't think so though.



part of my issue with using warp and pull so much in this video is the physical shape of my keyboard, hand, and muscel memory. i'm kind of a short dude (5' 8"), so my fingers aren't terribly long. add to that i'm using the logictec wave ergonomic keyboard, which has raised 1 and 2 buttons, and lowered 3 4 buttons, which is where my throw and pull reside. also, i use my thumbs to activate squad powers sometimes, which is more difficult when my middle or index finger is raised.

[Lycidas]

Atheist Peace wrote...

I am glad we agree that a return to ME1 biotic's would be a very bad thing .Your suggested change would be far to extreme for me, I simply wouldn't be able to play the adept if throw/pull worked on protected enemies.

Sorry but have you actually played other classes like Soldier, Infilitrator or Vanguard on Insanity? If you honestly think a Pull/Throw combo is too much to work on protected enemies I don't think you have. I'm playing a Soldier on Insanity right now and Adrenaline Rush + sniper rifle / shotgun is a one shot one kill combo and that starting right from the second mission (no upgrades and low level skills | harder enemies like Krogan take 2 shots tho) same goes for the Infilitrator with Cloak and the sniper rifle. The Vanguard needs quite a bit longer to be that effective. Please tell me where the Adept even comes close to that.
A Pull/Trow combo does not even kill your target 50% of the game I don't even think Pull + Warp would kill a protected foe.

Modifié par Lycidas, 21 février 2010 - 02:36 .

[incinerator950]

Mein eyes



I'm partially doing a second Insanity run, it's moving faster than last time, well that's because I changed Warp for AP ammo, and we're all using Collector Rifles, but it's moving at a faster pace. I'm using Throw a little more, and I'm using more of the Warp Bombing, with some of Miranda (yay).



For now until I get to Haestrom or Horizon, I think I might move a little faster.

[DirewolfX]

I don't know about Soldier, but Infiltrator cloak + sniper rifle is not a one shot kill on many of the tougher bad guys. Sure, it kills Vorcha (not pyros), Blue Suns/Eclipse Troopers, Collector Drones and other 'grunt' units, but it often doesn't kill tougher units like Collector Guardians, Blue Suns Legionaires, Eclipse Vanguards, etc. Also, you are severely limited by ammo at some points in the game... Adept does not need ammo.

[Graunt]

It would be nice if the game had a statistics counter for how many times you used any specific ability or how many times you shot any given gun and a percentage breakdown. That would put to rest a lot of these gross exaggerations.

It wouldn't be such a stretch to imagine the Adept looking like this over the course of an entire playthrough:

Warp 65%
Guns 15%
Singularity 15%
Pull 3%
Throw 2%

Of course if you took Energy Drain or Barrier it would look slightly different.

I don't know about Soldier, but Infiltrator cloak + sniper rifle is not
a one shot kill on many of the tougher bad guys. Sure, it kills Vorcha
(not pyros), Blue Suns/Eclipse Troopers, Collector Drones and other
'grunt' units, but it often doesn't kill tougher units like Collector
Guardians, Blue Suns Legionaires, Eclipse Vanguards, etc. Also, you are
severely limited by ammo at some points in the game... Adept does not
need ammo.

Just going to assume you've never picked up a Widow.  But yeah, it does seem like their justification is that biotics don't require any ammo, but it's not like all you would ever use is sniper rifle ammo.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 février 2010 - 12:42 .

[_Dannok1234]

That would be a very poor performing Adept Graunt. Wouldn't it be more likely that you would see far higher numbers on singularity and pull? Pull+Warp is very handy, I personally use that combo more often then singularity+warp. As singularity is usually used as a trap/CC somewhere. I think I actually use Singularity more then warp in general really. But thats just me obviously, everyone plays a bit differently,