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Biotic Power (Adept Suicide Run Insanity No Guns Video Gameplay)


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#101
Graunt

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Dannok1234 wrote...

That would be a very poor performing Adept Graunt. Wouldn't it be more likely that you would see far higher numbers on singularity and pull? Pull+Warp is very handy, I personally use that combo more often then singularity+warp. As singularity is usually used as a trap/CC somewhere. I think I actually use Singularity more then warp in general really. But thats just me obviously, everyone plays a bit differently,


I used pull often as well, but it wasn't my own, it was from a squadmate.  I wasn't factoring in squad use, only what your own character used.

#102
Atheist Peace

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Lycidas wrote...

Atheist Peace wrote...

I am glad we agree that a return to ME1 biotic's would be a very bad thing .Your suggested change would be far to extreme for me, I simply wouldn't be able to play the adept if throw/pull worked on protected enemies.


Sorry but have you actually played other classes like Soldier, Infilitrator or Vanguard on Insanity? If you honestly think a Pull/Throw combo is too much to work on protected enemies I don't think you have. I'm playing a Soldier on Insanity right now and Adrenaline Rush + sniper rifle / shotgun is a one shot one kill combo and that starting right from the second mission (no upgrades and low level skills | harder enemies like Krogan take 2 shots tho) same goes for the Infilitrator with Cloak and the sniper rifle. The Vanguard needs quite a bit longer to be that effective. Please tell me where the Adept even comes close to that.
A Pull/Trow combo does not even kill your target 50% of the game I don't even think Pull + Warp would kill a protected foe.


Yes, i have completed insanity with all classes except infiltrator. The only class that had noticably faster kill speed for me was the Vanguard.  I still think your changes would be too extreme.

I am pretty decent at shooters and can clear the game easy enough on insanity as Soldier, but i do think people are overstating how much faster a soldier can get through it.  I have seen quite a few videos posted by adept's demonstrating insanity being cleared efficiently, I have yet to see any soldier vids posted demonstrating significantly faster clear times. To be clear, i think that soldier's SHOULD kill faster given that its a pure damage class, while adept to me is a hybrid damage/cc class.

Until i see proof I am going to base my opinion of my own experience, and that tell's me that there is no significant difference in clear times.

What's strange to me is that the Engineer class is in almost exactly the same boat as the adept, yet we don't see nearly as many complaint's from them, why is that?

#103
EverteMax

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Seriously I dunno what seems to be the unhappiness here. Is the adept really that irritating? I have seen a lot of these threads calling certain classes weak at pulling down enemy barriers, thus making their skills base, boring, lousy...etc etc...Maybe all that is to be done is to see past the enemy barrier. The adept skill base has kill moves, trap moves, barrier eating moves. It's not only warp and overload that does the job. I basically used every single move in the adept skill book even on insanity. Enemy barriers do pose a problem yes, but with you and your team mates, it isn't such a nightmare. And when barriers go down, no one can kill the enemy as fast as an adept without putting yourself in danger.

#104
mundus66

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Lycidas wrote...

Atheist Peace wrote...

I am glad we agree that a return to ME1 biotic's would be a very bad thing .Your suggested change would be far to extreme for me, I simply wouldn't be able to play the adept if throw/pull worked on protected enemies.


Sorry but have you actually played other classes like Soldier, Infilitrator or Vanguard on Insanity? If you honestly think a Pull/Throw combo is too much to work on protected enemies I don't think you have. I'm playing a Soldier on Insanity right now and Adrenaline Rush + sniper rifle / shotgun is a one shot one kill combo and that starting right from the second mission (no upgrades and low level skills | harder enemies like Krogan take 2 shots tho) same goes for the Infilitrator with Cloak and the sniper rifle. The Vanguard needs quite a bit longer to be that effective. Please tell me where the Adept even comes close to that.
A Pull/Trow combo does not even kill your target 50% of the game I don't even think Pull + Warp would kill a protected foe.

I played every class and maybe it just beacuse my skills improved over time but i find both engineers and adepts faster killers than soldiers except vs boss mobs. Sentinel was probably the slowest class for me, but also the class which i had the easiest time with. I have completed the game with every class on insanity. Vanguard and infiltrator is definitely the fastest. Again this has nothing to do with how good a class is, just the classes which in my experience cleared areas the fastest (no deaths included).

#105
RighteousRage

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SmilingMirror wrote...

Soldiers are bottom tier I think....they have too many ammo powers and not enough abilities.


That's basically what people said about the soldier in the first game, too, haha.

"Oh no it doesn't have any crowd control or anything, how could it possibly be useful!?"

*stands in front of geth colossus and shoots it to death without moving on insanity in 5 seconds*

#106
RighteousRage

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You have big ole balls by the way, OP

#107
mundus66

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RighteousRage wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

Soldiers are bottom tier I think....they have too many ammo powers and not enough abilities.


That's basically what people said about the soldier in the first game, too, haha.

"Oh no it doesn't have any crowd control or anything, how could it possibly be useful!?"

*stands in front of geth colossus and shoots it to death without moving on insanity in 5 seconds*


This is not ME1 and while we are on the subject, they are definitely not low tier. But not as good as vanguard or adept either (ME1).

Modifié par mundus66, 21 février 2010 - 07:15 .


#108
RighteousRage

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A screenshot of me playing soldier in the first game



Image IPB

#109
Average Gatsby

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Graunt wrote...

It would be nice if the game had a statistics counter for how many times you used any specific ability or how many times you shot any given gun and a percentage breakdown. That would put to rest a lot of these gross exaggerations.

It wouldn't be such a stretch to imagine the Adept looking like this over the course of an entire playthrough:

Warp 65%
Guns 15%
Singularity 15%
Pull 3%
Throw 2%

Of course if you took Energy Drain or Barrier it would look slightly different.

I don't know about Soldier, but Infiltrator cloak + sniper rifle is not
a one shot kill on many of the tougher bad guys. Sure, it kills Vorcha
(not pyros), Blue Suns/Eclipse Troopers, Collector Drones and other
'grunt' units, but it often doesn't kill tougher units like Collector
Guardians, Blue Suns Legionaires, Eclipse Vanguards, etc. Also, you are
severely limited by ammo at some points in the game... Adept does not
need ammo.


Just going to assume you've never picked up a Widow.  But yeah, it does seem like their justification is that biotics don't require any ammo, but it's not like all you would ever use is sniper rifle ammo.


Because My video is public record, one can actually count the number of times I use each ability. And though I have said over and over that this was not an optimum run but just a "its possible and its fairly quick", I definitely overused some abilities. However, here is the breakdown in number and percentage for each section of the video and for total.

Part 1:
Warp: 15
Singularity: 27
Throw: 7
Pull: 14

Part 2:
Warp: 7
Singularity: 28
Throw: 7
Pull: 7

Part 3:
Warp: 9
Singularity: 19
Throw: 2
Pull: 7

Totals: 149 Used abilities (Shepard)
Warp: 31              20%
Sing: 74               50%
Throw: 16            11%
Pull: 28                 19%

Now like I said, not an optimum run. In fact, you can count about maybe 20 or more totally unnecessary singularities when I'm trying to do fun stuff like Melee harbinger and scions to death. That being said, I think this stands on its own for how adepts actually do use all of their abilities (except shockwave).

#110
sinosleep

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The fact that you used pull essentially just as often as warp is a good sign. I've added it to my vanguard's arsenal (maxing it to area pull actually) and think it's an extremely underrated ability.

#111
Trenrade

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nice now do it with tech abilities

#112
Average Gatsby

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Trenrade wrote...

nice now do it with tech abilities


HA. Now that might be kinda boring. But then again just going around throwing down melees and cryos could be pretty fun.

#113
thisisme8

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Average Gatsby wrote...
HA. Now that might be kinda boring. But then again just going around throwing down melees and cryos could be pretty fun.


I've been saying that for weeks.

#114
Graunt

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Average Gatsby wrote...

Because My video is public record, one can actually count the number of times I use each ability. And though I have said over and over that this was not an optimum run but just a "its possible and its fairly quick", I definitely overused some abilities. However, here is the breakdown in number and percentage for each section of the video and for total.

Part 1:
Warp: 15
Singularity: 27
Throw: 7
Pull: 14

Part 2:
Warp: 7
Singularity: 28
Throw: 7
Pull: 7

Part 3:
Warp: 9
Singularity: 19
Throw: 2
Pull: 7

Totals: 149 Used abilities (Shepard)
Warp: 31              20%
Sing: 74               50%
Throw: 16            11%
Pull: 28                 19%

Now like I said, not an optimum run. In fact, you can count about maybe 20 or more totally unnecessary singularities when I'm trying to do fun stuff like Melee harbinger and scions to death. That being said, I think this stands on its own for how adepts actually do use all of their abilities (except shockwave).


Do you think this would be a fair representation of your ability use through the whole game?  Maybe I wasn't being specific enough but that's what I was thinking of.  In the suicide run you have a lot of harbingers to lockdown which is going to skew your singularity use in such a relatively short segment and that's only counting the times you could say it was necessary.  I'm not sure what your actual aim is either when going through the game, ease, speed, balance?  I'm not specifically talking about these videos where you're goofing around either.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 février 2010 - 11:28 .


#115
Average Gatsby

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Graunt wrote...

Average Gatsby wrote...

Because My video is public record, one can actually count the number of times I use each ability. And though I have said over and over that this was not an optimum run but just a "its possible and its fairly quick", I definitely overused some abilities. However, here is the breakdown in number and percentage for each section of the video and for total.

Part 1:
Warp: 15
Singularity: 27
Throw: 7
Pull: 14

Part 2:
Warp: 7
Singularity: 28
Throw: 7
Pull: 7

Part 3:
Warp: 9
Singularity: 19
Throw: 2
Pull: 7

Totals: 149 Used abilities (Shepard)
Warp: 31              20%
Sing: 74               50%
Throw: 16            11%
Pull: 28                 19%

Now like I said, not an optimum run. In fact, you can count about maybe 20 or more totally unnecessary singularities when I'm trying to do fun stuff like Melee harbinger and scions to death. That being said, I think this stands on its own for how adepts actually do use all of their abilities (except shockwave).


Do you think this would be a fair representation of your ability use through the whole game?  Maybe I wasn't being specific enough but that's what I was thinking of.  In the suicide run you have a lot of harbingers to lockdown which is going to skew your singularity use in such a relatively short segment and that's only counting the times you could say it was necessary.  I'm not sure what your actual aim is either when going through the game, ease, speed, balance?  I'm not specifically talking about these videos where you're goofing around either.


I think this adequately represents about 40% of the game for me. I honestly just don't shoot very much and when I do it is usually only to take down shields. Because I take miranda with me so often though, and because I max out Area Overload with her, and with Garrus, first, Shields usually are either instantly killed, or I need to fire a burst or two from the tempest/vindicator/shuriken. I and with mercs, I try to only focus on one thats in the middle of a group, then throw out a singularity to pick up the one and make sure any others nearby (I use wide singularity so I have a signifcant capture area) get stuck in the singularity stun lock. I then Immediately follow it with a squadmates unstable warp, which has the absolutlely ridiculous AOE of 9 meters.

On a lot of the merc maps, theres open areas for mercs to fall into (I.E. thane and samara's recruitment). So if the shields of the basic merc trooper have been taken down even just a little bit, the warp explosion will remove them. And keep in mind that if at any point a shield/armor/barrier is removed while an explosion is taking place next to a unit, that unit will be hit with the full Newtons of the blast/throw/etc. So that generates a lot of doubles/triples or just completely cripples the unit so I or a squadmate can just fire a burst or 2 to finish off the health.

On the Geth Missions, all I do is shoot and cast sing for delaying. Occasionally a combo if I can, but I usually take Zaeed and either someone with AI hack (preferably legion) or Garrus with Overload. I also use a high ROF weapon like the SMG combined with Squad Disruptor Ammo, so I can get the maximum number of possible disables.

As far as my videos go, I'm usually trying to use the simplest effective strategy I know of. I'm trying certainly to play well, but I'm also not trying to do things that are overly complicated. I want to put something out there that anyone can replicate. The later the videos get, the more you see me using throw and pull, especially on the reaper IFF where I'm using throw almost every time it cools down. However, I will be making some Advanced play videos where I am trying to go through a level absolutely as fast and as efficiently as possible, but my strategy will still remain the same as far as emphasis on combos, and using the gun only to supplement that strategy.

#116
Grumpy Old Wizard

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In the suicide run there are not shields. To give an accurate reprentation of how often each skill is used you would need to count up who often you used the skills in the other parts of the game too. Singularity and warp will come out on top bar a wide margin.

#117
sinosleep

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Why would shields skew his pull numbers (neither of which do didley to shields), which were equal with warp?

Modifié par sinosleep, 21 février 2010 - 11:53 .


#118
Grumpy Old Wizard

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Actually, warp with upgrades is effective against shields.

#119
Average Gatsby

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Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

In the suicide run there are not shields. To give an accurate reprentation of how often each skill is used you would need to count up who often you used the skills in the other parts of the game too. Singularity and warp will come out on top bar a wide margin.


On top yes. Wide margin? Depends on the definition of wide honestly. I've said in my videos that sing and warp are what I consider tier 1 powers, and that if you use one or the other when you start a fight, its almost always a good decision, but its not necessarily the Best decision. Pull and Throw are Tier 2, good but situational. They Improve efficiency and their needed for peak performance but not necessarily to just simply get through the game.

If I had to estimate my moves, which is somewhat pointless because I haven't been keeping track, but I'll try, I'd say it would be 35% Sing 30% Warp 20% Pull and 15% Throw, but I will also say that those 15% throws were absolutely necessary. I can't really factor in gunfire because I'm not sure how I'd calculate something like that, and also because I can do both an ability and shoot at the same time. I don't think I could beat reaper IFF, graunts loyalty, the Quarian survivor, or some of the husk rushes during the suicide run without throw, or at least not nearly as quickly or effectively. And throw is more efficient against single enemies than warp, should the enemy be light enough (normal humanoids and the occasional krogan, not varren or large geth).

#120
Average Gatsby

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I'm going to make my live videos tonight if I can. I'll do Mirandas loyalty, because of the mercs, and I'll do the Suicide Mission. I'll go for optimum play on each, going for the most efficient and fast playtime.

#121
DoNotResistHate

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In ME1 I used all my powers pretty much evenly which I liked. In ME2 I used Warp the majority of the time and then either pull or singularity. Not as much fun IMHO. In fact I tried playing adept twice (one of my favorite classes from ME1 the other being sentinel) and got bored both times. To much taking cover until you drill through their shields and armor. Don't get me wrong I like tactical classes. I just prefer a more aggressive class and in ME1 you could be very aggressive with the biotics. Vanguard is crazy fun now though so I guess you have to take the good with the bad.  Don't get me wrong Adept is definitely an an effective class just not a very fun one IMHO.

Modifié par DoNotResistHate, 22 février 2010 - 01:20 .


#122
Serevir

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Soldier is the easiest class to play with imo



Still fun though

#123
Graunt

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Serevir wrote...

Soldier is the easiest class to play with imo

Still fun though


Depends on what your definition of easy is.  Soldiers, Infiltrators and Vanguards to a lesser extent simply fit the gameplay better due to how much more of a shooter this game is.  Playing an Adept or Sentinel is too much like toying with the gravity gun in HL2 for me. It's mostly just a matter of preference, but it just felt too much like trying to fit a circle through a square peg.  Both the Adept and Sentinel are just as easy as the Soldier, just more chaotic in terms of pacing I think.

Modifié par Graunt, 22 février 2010 - 04:37 .


#124
dissonance-zaon

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Average Gatsby wrote...

I'm going to make my live videos tonight if I can. I'll do Mirandas loyalty, because of the mercs, and I'll do the Suicide Mission. I'll go for optimum play on each, going for the most efficient and fast playtime.


Looking forward to them. I'm getting tired of my Sentinel right now and pondering if I should give the Adept another whirl.

#125
VirtualAlex

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Excited for the videos.