334 réponses à ce sujet

[RighteousRage]

Adept using biotics: use every ability in your teammates' and your own repertoire to take down one enemy



Soldier using guns: adrenaline rush, widow headshot

[incinerator950]

Usually it's the Revenant most Soldiers get, then Widow or Claymore. Widow is much better off for an Infiltrator, where that super damage is put to use.

[Besetment]

I agree in the sense that guns are just a tool to a get a job done in this game. Average Gatsby proved you don't need them and that you can go through the whole game without firing a shot on the hardest difficulty (which is something you can't do in ME1). But I think he would agree in the sense that there are situations where using a gun can get the job done better.

Similarly Thisismenow8 proved you can play an Infiltrator with the Tempest SMG and Cryo Ammo. Lets not forget that in the first 2 weeks of release, alot of players were saying Cryo ammo sucked and that the only gun you should ever use is the Widow. Now, I'm a 'Widow monkey' for sure but at this stage I can admit that there are some situations where tactical use of cloak and the smg gets the job done better and faster.

At the same time though, I feel squadmates tend to offer the least to the Adept. For an Infiltrator, biotic squaddies can save you ammo, pull a krogan out of your face when you've only got time for 1 shot before you kiss the dirt. They can stun armoured/shielded enemies so you can line up shots easier and pick off the armour of targets that are flanking you and set them up for biotic death via your teammates. It just doesn't work so well the other way around.

Modifié par Besetment, 20 février 2010 - 09:04 .

[RighteousRage]

Super damage? It still kills most things in one shot even on insanity, haha.

[Chromie]

I tihnk AverageGatsby seriously needs to get a new account name. He anythings but average.'



The two people you just mentioned though have made me go and replay those classes. I love Adepts their my favorite. But now that more people are learning whats good and whats not in terms of game mechanics and powers different playstyles become varied. It's really fun using singualrity and warping but its also great to use a gun as an adept if thats your thing.

[Besetment]

incinerator950 wrote...

Usually it's the Revenant most Soldiers get, then Widow or Claymore. Widow is much better off for an Infiltrator, where that super damage is put to use.

Whether you play an Infiltrator or Soldier it doesn't matter. Both classes are great at stripping shields, armour and barriers which automatically makes biotics on squadmates very useful. Even more so when you have Overload and Warp on your squadmates as these will supplement your warp ammo'ed, disruptor ammo'ed death dealing machine.

For enemies that can eat more than one Widow shot, squadmate biotics become a godsend. On Mordin's recruitment mission for instance you run into Krogan and at this point in the game you have no upgrades. On NG+ Insanity it takes 2x headshots to strip armour (cloaked or uncloaked it doesn't matter). And it takes another 2x shots to kill them.

Its far better to take Krogan armour down to 1/4 with 1x cloaked headshot followed by Incinerate and then Pull from Jacob. At this point that Krogan is at your mercy because Pull is ridiculously awesome as long as you can pull them into the line of fire of your squadmates. It is so reliable that I've used Pull on a Krogan at full health and literally just stood over it shooting at enemies behind because it incapacitates for ages. 9 times out of 10 they will be dead before they can get up and if they aren't, Pull has such a short cooldown that you can just Pull them again. You save 3 bullets so you can use the Widow more often where it counts.

Now the same situation is not fun when you are an Adept and your squadmate's job is to get rid of all that armour. At this point in the game you have nothing which is good vs armour so you have to warp it off which is definitely doable but I was just left with the impression that Freedom's Progress and Mordin's recruitment mission on NG+ is staggeringly not fun as an Adept.

RighteousRage wrote...

Super damage? It still kills most things in one shot even on insanity, haha.

True but those baddies are cannon fodder anyway and they aren't a problem even for Adepts. The problems for Adepts are things which don't get killed in 1x widow shot. i.e. Scions, Praetorian, Krogans. They are of course killable and plenty of people have proven it with and without using guns. Its just unbelievably not fun and your squaddies just aren't as good at dropping armour and shields as you can be...if you weren't playing an Adept.

Modifié par Besetment, 20 février 2010 - 09:39 .

[RighteousRage]

Yes, what Besetment said

[Roxlimn]

Besetment:



That really depends on what you find fun, though. Locking down a Scion with Singularity and then killing it at your leisure can be fun for some people. Headshots are fun for others. Depends on what you like.



Krogans are not a problem for Adepts. Just as you can use biotics to clear a room, an Adept can use his squaddies as well. Triple Heavy Warp will remove just about any defense short of a Praetorian.

[Lycidas]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

I honestly can not understand how people refuse to see how they way biotics work against armor or shields is a broken gameplay mechanism. If you play as an Adept (Vanguard not so much) your gameplay will totally change if you go from Veteran to any difficulty where defenses are actually a matter. This is not true for classes like the Soldier, Infilitrator and Vanguard (I did not play the other classes that much).
So if we take those three classes as a baseline the step form Veteran to Insanity should require you to choose the right ability at the right time and make mistakes matter more but it should not change your gameplay the way it does for the Adept.

I really have not noticed how a caster is more affected by insanity than a shooter class is. This is a flat out lie spread by unhappy ME1 adepts who are angry they can't crowd control from the get go.
Guess what? A combat class has problems on insanity as well. Cryo Ammo is technically less useful on insanity. Shredder ammo is *pointless* on insanity. That doesn't mean any power (except maybe shredder lol) is useless.

I honestly don't know why I even respod to you. Next time you might try to think before you call sombody a liar even if it hurts.
Soldiers, Infilitrators and Vanguards do to 90% the same things no matter what difficulty they shoot things. Quite often one shot one kill. The biggest change for them is that on Insanity they might actually want to use their ammo powers. Btw. if you think Cryo Ammo is useless you might want to read the Vanguard thread to be proven wrong.
Now as an Adept on Normal you control the battlefield you have Pull, Singularity, Throw and Shockwave to stop your targets from charging or flanking you. This is what the class is about if things shoot at you you are screwed you can not use Adrenaline Rush, Cloak or Charge to get out of trouble you need to make sure the trouble does not get to you. And unlike for other classes this changes significantly if you play on Insanity. Out of the 4 skills you have to actually control targets you have ONE left and even that is gimped down a lot.
How people still claim the Adept is working fine on Insanity is totally beyond me.

[Besetment]

Roxlimn wrote...
That really depends on what you find fun,
though.

Of course. I'm not about to tell you how you are supposed to have fun. How dare you have fun which does not fit the definition of what I think fun should be! :shakesfist:

That said I just felt like biotic squadmates make great sidekicks and complement a 'shooter' Shepard well. But the shooter squadmates? They don't quite do for the Adept what a shooter Shepard can do for himself. You can always inflict Incisor abuse with Garrus and Zaeed if you bought the DDE but even that feels a bit hollow.

By the way, you suggesting 3x warp doesn't disagree with anything I said at all.

Modifié par Besetment, 20 février 2010 - 10:19 .

[Stephenc13]

 they really dumbed down biotics in ME2, I think the biotic system in ME1 was way better

[TekFanX]

I agree with the people who answered my post in the point, that having weapons as a biotic commando and not using them is quite a stupid thing.



Otherwise, I have to disagree with the current state: Weapons, even on specialists like adept/engineer/sentinel are way too important.



It's no problem for my Sentinel to tear down a YMIR.

On lvl30 at Veteran I needed arround...let me guess...shouldn't even be 10 secs.

Right squad-mates and the AP-Ammo with me of course.

But if I hand down the weapon I lose arround 50% to 60% of my firepower.

So whatever class I chose, I can rely mostly on my weapons with the right ammo-power.



If you hand down the weapon, you can play the game through, no argue about that.

But you lose most of the dps you got. And if I start a class that is a biotic specialist with special implants, I don't want the most of my power concentrated in a weapon.



The powers are a much too small factor in the "warfare" of ME2.



And don't think I couldn't use the powers tactical.

Often I pile up enemies with throw-fields, order a squadmate to use the pullfield and finish all off with an unstable Warp.

Smashing unprotected enemies into explosive crates with a curved throw is no problem either.

Most funniest moment is giving a close-range-enemy a gratis-flight when curving the throw from below. That doesn't inflict much damage most time, but makes the character feel powerfull.

[Lycidas]

Stephenc13 wrote...

 they really dumbed down biotics in ME2, I think the biotic system in ME1 was way better

Sorry no IMHO. I am a big supporter of improvements to the biotics in ME2 but going back to what they used to be in ME1 is a hell of a lot too much. And just by saying things like that you make any discussion on a middle ground that most could agree with much harder.

[Devos]

Awesome Helmet wrote...

theres probably still topics going on about ME1 adepts and vangaurds.

not so much. It's a bit dead and it seems all anyone seems interested in is playing ME1 for importing into ME2.

Anywho, I actually quite like ME2's biotics, they are no where near as powerful but they have a lot more depth and learning curve. You have to look at it class by class. Adepts can still mass CC with singularity but it's no longer the big fat I win card it was. You have to use it to slow enemies up before stripping their defences and detonating it or throwing single targets. Also detonated singularities are very effective at stripping defences. Charge makes Vanguards an actual Shotgun specialists (as oposed to ME1 where they were pretend shotgun specialists) plus pull with it's quick cool down lets them go adept light if charging is too suicidal or even just to combo with charge.

Not everything I like though. Sentinels *sigh*, I thought I was going to love them but I really just don't, they're too lacking in combos. I really wish they had a power I could detonate with warp rather than relying on squad powers for that. Also Shockwaves seems to be pretty damn useless. It regularly misses and has a horrible cool down, the AE can dent defences but nothing like detonating a singularity and on a Vanguard I would rather not have charge locked out for that long. Also I really wish the weaker melee enemies (husks, fenrir mechs, varren) had all their toughness in health even on insanity, because I do sometimes miss the comedy singularity bait balls.

[Urazz]

gr00grams wrote...

Soldier is actually built to 'spam' AR.

Aside concussive, which isn't that good (mine doesn't even have any points in it) Adrenaline is the only 'active' soldier skill.

You simply put the ammo skills on once, and then the only skill that you can use actually is AR. So yes, he would be correct that you spam it. Every 3 seconds.

-50% damage taken, at most something can get your shields down by the time it ends, you just fall back into cover, wait 3 more seconds, and repeat.

I'm not saying it's the most fun etc, but it is definitely effective.

Agreed Soldier is built to 'spam' AR most of the time.  I really only used the AR and sniper rifle really.  The shotgun and pistol were used to backup weapons if I ran out of ammo on Insanity (happened once or twice) than actually seeing any use.

Concussive Shot is good for taking down barriers actually and is a decent minor CC on lower difficulties.  Unless you got warp ammo, then concussive shot has it's uses.

[Roxlimn]

Besetment:

Generally, regulating squad fire to the tee is harder than directing squad powers, for obvious reasons. That said, I have had no problems using Garrus, Samara, Thane, and even Jack to advantage with their guns. They can't handle a lot on their own, but they can help you out. You don't need the Incisor Rifle. Just keep fire on yourself, and ask Garrus to setup somewhere nice and long range and give him a Viper. He'll kill your Pulled enemies for you no problem.

In fact, it sometimes gets problematic because he sometimes kills Pulled enemies you didn't ask him to kill - and then you have to strip some other mook for the bomb. You just have to remember to ask them to attack particular targets and it works out well enough. If you're taking heavy fire, asking your mates to strip defenses with guns is particularly effective.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 21 février 2010 - 12:17 .

[Awesome Helmet]

i agree with besetment. your allies abilities can be used almost as effectively as shepard, although they recharge slower. you cant get the same from weapons with your allies though. it makes playing as an adept all that much more useless.



unless you love the SMG, singularity, and warp, then by all means, have fun playing this game as the great and all mighty singularity spammer.



atleast the conversations will change in your game.

[Awesome Helmet]

its stupid too that they added ammo, but got rid of separate cooldowns. dont you think if you went they way of adding ammo, youd want to keep biotics on separate cooldowns as well. you save sniper rounds for tough situations just like you saved singularity for tougher situations. now you just singularity untill the credits roll. whats the point?

[Awesome Helmet]

its almost like they thought "weve got this awesome new shooting mechanics, we HAVE to make the players shoot all the time now. its gonna be so great to show the shooting off. everyone will love it. its like gears of war."



although the shooting is awesome, i dont want gears of war. forget i dont level my weapons, i level my skills. i dont care about my weapons, i care about my skills. are there discusions on what weapons to take with classes, or what skills to level? its like bioware NEEDS to have soo much shooting now.

[Awesome Helmet]

4 posts in a row.



maybe i should learn to edit.

[SmilingMirror]

Lycidas wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

I honestly can not understand how people refuse to see how they way biotics work against armor or shields is a broken gameplay mechanism. If you play as an Adept (Vanguard not so much) your gameplay will totally change if you go from Veteran to any difficulty where defenses are actually a matter. This is not true for classes like the Soldier, Infilitrator and Vanguard (I did not play the other classes that much).
So if we take those three classes as a baseline the step form Veteran to Insanity should require you to choose the right ability at the right time and make mistakes matter more but it should not change your gameplay the way it does for the Adept.

I really have not noticed how a caster is more affected by insanity than a shooter class is. This is a flat out lie spread by unhappy ME1 adepts who are angry they can't crowd control from the get go.
Guess what? A combat class has problems on insanity as well. Cryo Ammo is technically less useful on insanity. Shredder ammo is *pointless* on insanity. That doesn't mean any power (except maybe shredder lol) is useless.

I honestly don't know why I even respod to you. Next time you might try to think before you call sombody a liar even if it hurts.
Soldiers, Infilitrators and Vanguards do to 90% the same things no matter what difficulty they shoot things. Quite often one shot one kill. The biggest change for them is that on Insanity they might actually want to use their ammo powers. Btw. if you think Cryo Ammo is useless you might want to read the Vanguard thread to be proven wrong.
Now as an Adept on Normal you control the battlefield you have Pull, Singularity, Throw and Shockwave to stop your targets from charging or flanking you. This is what the class is about if things shoot at you you are screwed you can not use Adrenaline Rush, Cloak or Charge to get out of trouble you need to make sure the trouble does not get to you. And unlike for other classes this changes significantly if you play on Insanity. Out of the 4 skills you have to actually control targets you have ONE left and even that is gimped down a lot.
How people still claim the Adept is working fine on Insanity is totally beyond me.

wow calm down kid.
Im not saying that cryo ammo is useless either. Im saying that calling throw useless is as pointless as calling cryo ammo useless. Both really shine best when hitting health. but that does *not* make either ability useless.
so stop being a hater.

Also if an enemy charges you, caster classes CAN stop them. Sentinel has Tech Armor (when fully upgraded i can stay out of fire, WAY longer than a soldier can), Adept can throw singularity even at armored opponents slowing them down, and engineers have exploding drones.
With a shield power, you can restore your shields and get back into the fight.

I would LOVE to see a Soldier let two or more Vorcha flamethrowers walk up to them without taking a shot, take their shields off and still survive like my Sentinel can.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 21 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[TheLostGenius]

Dunno biotics in ME1 were sorta over powered. You could quickly tech up your singularity and throw every enemy in the room into a vortex and kill them without any danger. At least the enemies have SOME protection from your biotics. Singularity when upgraded is great for pinning enemies in an area, then when they are taking shots they get sucked in. But I do agree that certain biotic abilities should effect shielding a bit better. Shockwave should ignore shielding. Reave should be a bit stronger against shields as well.

[RighteousRage]

Something that annoys me about the biotics in ME 2 is that, like the ammo and kinetic barriers, it was retconned into something that made even less sense. In the books as well as the first game it worked as you might expect (at least for the player character) - what amounted to telekinetic abilities basically bent space/time rather than being packets of "fireballs" that you shot off. For example Gillian in Ascension throws stuff around without having to fire renzoku ki dans at them like a Dragonball Z character. Yet now we have this bizarre curving fireball.

[mundus66]

Stephenc13 wrote...

 they really dumbed down biotics in ME2, I think the biotic system in ME1 was way better

How is it dumbed down when a 4 year old could hit 1, 2, 3, 4 (pc version) and win every battle on insanity...

Modifié par mundus66, 21 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[Besetment]

Biotics aren't overpowered in ME1. :| There is only 1 ability thats overpowered in ME1 and thats Immunity.