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"You're standing in the presence of a god Delan."

Débuté par Guest_Malcolm Theory_* , févr. 20 2010 12:37

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#76
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:00

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cronshaw8 wrote...

It is consistant in tone with the Tennyson quote from "Ulysses" in ME1
"not unbecoming men who strove with gods" line 53


To quote myself earlier.

"That was a quote from Ulysses. Reciting a poem that was inspired by Greek heroes, and the Divine Comendy, as a means of reassurance, doesn't mean anything. Calling Shepard "a god", is a completely differnet matter." 

#77
Guest_yfhfrg_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:09

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Meh. Half the people I know (including religious ones) have probably used the word God when talking about guitar players. I don't see the big deal. The only part I really thought out of character was the 'I'm no fan of aliens' line.

#78
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:10

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PiercedMonk wrote...

The fact that I dislike the character has no bearing on my ability to recognise consistancy of characterization.

In 'Mass Effect', Ashley was prone to saying silly, over-wrought nonsense. So where's the change.


So your rational is; She was a nonsensical moron in the first, so it seems alright to you?

PiercedMonk wrote...
Also, your primary object to the turn of phrase seems to be that she's religious. That's fair, as there certinally are religious folk who would be adverse to to saying such a thing. The question than has to be is Ashley one of them? Consider, if you will, we really have no idea what religion Ashley is. Presumably it's a monotheistic one, as she refers to God in the singular form, but that's the only clue. Christian? Jewish? Muslim? Sikh? Mormon? Yazidi? Personally I choose to believe she's Zoroastrian, if for no other reason than it entertains me to do so. The fact of the matter is that Ashley gives no indication as to which particular faith she belongs, if any of them. Her concept of god could be a personal one without any formal dogma associated with it or dictating behaviour.

Further, just how serriously does Ashley take her faith? She's a believer, but it's not as though you ever see her pray or perform any sorts of rites. Her faith exists, but it's not the defining aspect of her character.


In an e-mail she sends you after horizon, she details the fact that she prayed a lot after Shepard went missing, similar to the way she prayed for her father.


PiercedMonk wrote...

When you get right down to it, people, even religious people, often refer to another person as gods. Athletes and musicians are both often given the title, simply for being exceptional at what they do. And, personally, I don't think it'd be out of character for Ashley to refer to Shepard in such terms.


But for a colleague, friend, and or lover to refer him as "a god"?

Sure if it were Conrad, I'd understand. The guy puts Shepard on a pedastal. But it just seems wrong for someone close to you to refer to you as "a god".

#79
vashts1985
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:15

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i dont recall Ash ever mentioning that she was a christian, just that she believes in god.



the two are not always linked.



besides, i find it hard to believe that the christian faith would remain as it is in this particular future without some re-translation. being able to recognize that there are many deities around and that they believe in one particular god would seem logical.

#80
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:52

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yeah kaidan's line of "legend' is much more believable than "god"

hated those cameos the most :xxxx

#81
Madecologist
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:56

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I am Catholic and I called my girlfiend a goddess more than once. I use the name of God in vain way too often. I know Ash is religous but... ummm... this is a case of...

Reading too much into it. It is just a figure of speech someone would use, be atheist or religous.

#82
SimonTheFrog
Posté 20 février 2010 - 05:57

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PARAGON87 wrote...

Although for a Christian it is a sin to mention a person as "A God", since it violates the 1st Commandment.

But in Ash's case, Shepherd has done so much to save the galaxy, can do so much more good, that she will sin to emphasize how great he is.

That's OK, in my opinion.


What do Christians have to care about the 1st Commandment?
Shouldn't they stick to the New Testament? I'm lost here being an atheist... 

:o

Modifié par SimonTheFrog, 20 février 2010 - 05:58 .

#83
Tisiphne
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:04

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You're making the assumption that they are A) Christian, and B) Monotheistic. This != believing in a deity, which is all Ash admits. Ancient polytheistic religions often elevated heroes to demigod status.

Modifié par Tisiphne, 20 février 2010 - 06:06 .

#84
yoomazir
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:12

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good to know, I picked the right decision when I got rid of her in Virmire.

#85
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:19

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Tisiphne wrote...

You're making the assumption that they are A) Christian, and B) Monotheistic. This != believing in a deity, which is all Ash admits. Ancient polytheistic religions often elevated heroes to demigod status.


What?

I'm sorry, but it's blatantly obvious that she's monotheistic.

1) She refers to a singular god  multiple times throughout the game.

2) On Noveria she mentions that the Salarian that killed himself wouldn't be going to heaven.

3)  That should be all the proof you need. Image IPB

#86
cronshaw8
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:20

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Malcolm Theory wrote...

cronshaw8 wrote...

It is consistant in tone with the Tennyson quote from "Ulysses" in ME1
"not unbecoming men who strove with gods" line 53


To quote myself earlier.

"That was a quote from Ulysses. Reciting a poem that was inspired by Greek heroes, and the Divine Comendy, as a means of reassurance, doesn't mean anything. Calling Shepard "a god", is a completely differnet matter." 


you are overstating her fundamentalism. If she were as strict as you claim she never would have had sex w/shepard without being married. Not everyone who prays and belives in god is a rigid, literalist zealot. Which she would have to be to beilve using "god" to refer to someone in a metaphorical sense is a sin.

#87
Eshaye
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:21

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SelphieSK wrote...

Kaidan refers to Shep as a legend, then a ghost.
And yeah, Ash's "God" made me laugh, actually. >.>


I'm not exactly sure why they changed THAT line, a lot more could have been changed to make better sense to the appropriate LI and they picked that? Very odd..... :blink:

#88
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:23

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yeah to me its not a matter of religion at all. its a matter of being a poorly written line. it is belief suspending and the entire cameo is weak enough as it is, the poor dialogue only adds insult to injury.

#89
Serevir
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:30

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Ash admires Shepard + figure of speech = that line



OR



Ash was commenting on how humans perceive Shepard



Hardly game-breaking to me



#90
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:36

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cronshaw8 wrote...

you are overstating her fundamentalism. If she were as strict as you claim she never would have had sex w/shepard without being married. Not everyone who prays and belives in god is a rigid, literalist zealot. Which she would have to be to beilve using "god" to refer to someone in a metaphorical sense is a sin.


I'm not saying that she's a zealot.  Why does everyone keep saying that you have to be an uptight zealot to not feel comfortable with the line? I use god's name in vein almost everyday. The fact that it's a commandmant has nothing to do with the arguement at hand.

/facepalm 

It's a matter of crappy dialogue. Why would they write that line for the religious person?

#91
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:37

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Serevir wrote...

Ash admires Shepard + figure of speech = that line

OR

Ash was commenting on how humans perceive Shepard

Hardly game-breaking to me


It's not game breaking, it's just cringe inducing/stomach churning. Image IPB

Modifié par Malcolm Theory, 20 février 2010 - 06:38 .

#92
tsd16
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:43

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If were going to use a religious excuse to make that line seem messed up.



Ash isnt a very good christian anyway since she did or is at least willing to have pre-marital sex with Shepard. So obviously she is not very religious anyway, in the idea of strictly following a particular religion, from the convo's with ash in ME1, I think she would fall under the description of an agnostic as she never directly references christianity or any other religion for that matter, just that she believes in a God or an afterlife.

#93
Mars Nova
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:51

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You're all assuming she is a Christian in the first place.  It's never stated that Ash is a Christian, only that she believes in God.  We don't know what the specifics of her beliefs are.

Modifié par Mars Nova, 20 février 2010 - 06:52 .

#94
Mooner911
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:52

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I had to do a quick re-run of ME1 just so I could have her "die well" at Virmire. I originally could just barely tollerate her in ME1 but had to go back and ressurect Alenko. Whether she's a fanatic, fundamentallist, or whatever, she's certainly close-minded as shown in her whole dialogue with Shep. Her priorities lie with the idea and concept of the Alliance, not with the reality that all intelligent organic life in the galaxy is on the verge of extermination.

Funny thing tho, she'd make an excellent Cerberus operative.

#95
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:56

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tsd16 wrote...

If were going to use a religious excuse to make that line seem messed up.

Ash isnt a very good christian anyway since she did or is at least willing to have pre-marital sex with Shepard.


As said before. It's a fact that many religious people (note I didn't single out christians) have sex before marriage. That is a common thing.

What is not common, is for a religious person to use the term "god" loosley enough to apply it to a person. It is not commonplace, nor is it a common figure of speech (Kaidan's "legend" line is an actual term everyone uses to describe great people). 

tsd16 wrote...
So obviously she is not very religious anyway, in the idea of strictly following a particular religion, from the convo's with ash in ME1, I think she would fall under the description of an agnostic as she never directly references christianity or any other religion for that matter, just that she believes in a God or an afterlife.


The fact that she boldly stated "He killed himself. It's a shame, suicide means that he won't be going heaven".

That statment tells me that she is sure that there is a god and a heaven. Agnostics believe that both are unknowable.

#96
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:59

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Mooner911 wrote...

Funny thing tho, she'd make an excellent Cerberus operative.


No she wouldn't. She's quick to remind Shepard that Cerberus is an extremist group, and that she'd never join them.Image IPB

Modifié par Malcolm Theory, 20 février 2010 - 07:04 .

#97
Elastica
Posté 20 février 2010 - 07:01

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I must admit that line made me raise an eyebrow. Especially since she basically barfs in your face and walks away two minutes later.

#98
Mooner911
Posté 20 février 2010 - 07:14

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Malcolm Theory wrote...

Mooner911 wrote...

Funny thing tho, she'd make an excellent Cerberus operative.


No she wouldn't. She's quick to remind Sheaprd that Cerberus is an extremist group, and that she'd never join them.Image IPB

Both Tali and Garrus joined Shep, not Cerberus. Neither agree with or support Cerberus methods but both trust Shep enough to help him/her tackle the bigger picture regardless of who's footing the bill.
But, like Kelly, if Cerberus had indoctrinated Ash before the Alliance had, she would have made a perfect close-minded and loyal Cerberus cheerleader.

#99
Guest_Malcolm Theory_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 07:21

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Mooner911 wrote...

Both Tali and Garrus joined Shep, not Cerberus. Neither agree with or support Cerberus methods but both trust Shep enough to help him/her tackle the bigger picture regardless of who's footing the bill.
But, like Kelly, if Cerberus had indoctrinated Ash before the Alliance had, she would have made a perfect close-minded and loyal Cerberus cheerleader.


A conversation not involving religion. Image IPB

So I guess that theory would apply to Kaidan as well?

#100
seattlehawks432
Posté 20 février 2010 - 07:21

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1) She isnt Christian. Believing in a God makes you Christian?

2) Its a freaking figure of speech
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