155 réponses à ce sujet

[Toxik King]

She believes in a higher power, that doesn't mean she's religious.
Also, Shepard is a god.

[TheTrac3r]

I never liked Ashley, but maybe some of you are thinking about this backwards?



Yes, a religious person is taught not to call people "God", as it's a sin.



However, a religious person is the most likely person to be messed in the head by witnessing someone come back to life. IE: a scientist will say, "Ah yes, Reapers", a religious person will get a wild look in their eye and start screaming about miracles, etc.



Thus, if anyone is going to start being irrational (which Ash already is), at seeing you resurrected, it's Ashley "Don't Question my Competance" Williams.

[PooPoomonster]

She is a doppleganger planted by the collectors which is why she says wierd things. Don't worry she will probably explode her skin and turn into a gross robot you kill later. Just let it be known that I called it. By later I mean Mass Effect 3

Modifié par PooPoomonster, 20 février 2010 - 07:32 .

[TheTrac3r]

PooPoomonster wrote...

She is a doppleganger planted by the collectors which is why she says wierd things. Don't worry she will probably explode her skin and turn into a gross robot you kill later. Just let it be known that I called it. By later I mean Mass Effect 3

I agree.  Seriously.  How she managed to escape being Collected and then have the energy to be a **** to you should raise alarm bells for everyone.

[Mooner911]

Malcolm Theory wrote...
A conversation not involving religion.
 

lol Allah be praised

Malcolm Theory wrote...

Mooner911 wrote...
Both Tali and Garrus joined Shep, not Cerberus. Neither agree with or support Cerberus methods but both trust Shep enough to help him/her tackle the bigger picture regardless of who's footing the bill.
But, like Kelly, if Cerberus had indoctrinated Ash before the Alliance had, she would have made a perfect close-minded and loyal Cerberus cheerleader.

So I guess that theory would apply to Kaidan as well?

Perhaps. I haven't reached that part yet with this new ME2 play-through. But if he's as adamant and personally traitorus to Shep as Ash was, then I'd have to say his character is miswritten. He showed no potential as an Alliance drone in ME1.

[NKKKK]

People, Ashley isn't a fundamentalist.

[Garlador]

It was just a figure of speech. It wasn't the best usage of the term, I think.



And just for fun...



Shepard gathered a group of followers, rebelled against the established authority, stopped an ancient, timeless evil, died in the process, was resurrected, and became even more legendary.



You might even say Shepard was "the Good Shepard".

[shinobi602]

She meant he was a god in bed, people.

Modifié par shinobi602, 20 février 2010 - 07:56 .

[Mars Nova]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

The fact that she boldly stated "He killed himself. It's a shame, suicide means that he won't be going heaven".

That statment tells me that she is sure that there is a god and a heaven. Agnostics believe that both are unknowable.

That still doesn't confirm her as any particular religion.  Not trying to seem hostile to religion or anything, just pointing that out.

And are you sure she said that in the first place?  I had her on my squad on Noveria and don't recall her saying that.

Modifié par Mars Nova, 20 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[TheTrac3r]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

TheTrac3r wrote...

I never liked Ashley, but maybe some of you are thinking about this backwards?

Yes, a religious person is taught not to call people "God", as it's a sin.

However, a religious person is the most likely person to be messed in the head by witnessing someone come back to life. IE: a scientist will say, "Ah yes, Reapers", a religious person will get a wild look in their eye and start screaming about miracles, etc.

Thus, if anyone is going to start being irrational (which Ash already is), at seeing you resurrected, it's Ashley "Don't Question my Competance" Williams.

That makes no sense.

It's not irrational, it's just a stupid use of an apparently well known, and heavily used figure of speech.

That too.  Malcolm, I was addressing people who kept claiming that she could never use that figure of speech because she is religious, with disagreement.  Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

[stillnotking]

That "standing in the presence of a god" line sounded kind of sarcastic to me.

Modifié par stillnotking, 20 février 2010 - 07:54 .

[TheTrac3r]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

People, Ashley isn't a fundamentalist.

I think I've firmly established the fact that I don't think she's a fundamentalist either. One does not have to be a strict fundamentalist, to never use the term "god" that loosely.

Edit: Wow. I think I confused myself with that last sentence.

In ME1, if you are rude/Renegade to her, you specifically ask her if she's a fundamentalist.  I can even recall the line, "I don't have a problem with people who believe in God, as long as they don't have a problem with people who don't".  Not an exact quote from Shepard, but close enough.  Ashley takes some considerable offence at the insinuation, and strongly emphasizes that she isn't a bigot (though, in every mission, she was pretty ...erm...'human centric'...for someone who disagrees with Cerberus....), and that she is more a soldier, who has spirituality, something that is rare hundreds of years from now (predicted diminishment of religion in the future/already seen now in Western culture, etc)

So I'd say it's a game "fact" that she isn't quite a fundamentalist, or so she herself explained.

Modifié par TheTrac3r, 20 février 2010 - 07:57 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Or the whole "god" thing and listing Shepard's history of accomplishments was merely meant as an angry, sarcastic shot at Shepard. I haven't heard how her lines were delivered, but my FemShep met Kaidan on Horizon, and I got that angry, sarcastic vibe from his lines. However, my job tends to provoke those kinds of emotions, so I might have been projecting.

** Edited to fix typo - unfortunately, that inadvertent "an" is now immortalized. ARGH! And yes, I'm a book designer, so I am OCD about spelling, grammar, etc.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 20 février 2010 - 08:47 .

[LoweGear]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

Last time I checked, calling someone a "god" isn't a common figure of speech.

And I'm not "reading into things". I'm reacting to some spotty dialogue.

I live in a country that's considered to have one of the highest concentrations of Roman Catholic/Christian devout in Asia: The Philippines. And yet even the most religious people here can and will frequently invoke the name of the lord in vain (exemplified by the term "Diyos Ko Po" which basically translated to "Oh My God" ).

And going outside of that, using "God" as a figure of speech actually is rather common. You know the band Vertical Horizon? What was the title of one of their most famous hit songs?

"You're a God"

And the rather popular Warcraft 3 Map DOTA has the message "GODLIKE"... the soundfile of which was ripped off another game, not sure if it was Unreal or Quake.

I really don't see how a single word that can be used as much as an adjective as it is a noun constitutes "spotty writing", especially since people use it all the time without any religious connotation, just a measure of how superior something is.
 
On the issue of Ashley and Kaidan... do note that they only actually become angry when Shepard mentions working for Cerberus, which is quite understandable given Cerberus' reputation. On the actual line where they deliver the "god" speech, they're still not angry.

Do note that people can and sometimes will let their anger out over the smallest of matters even with rational explanations - people getting angry at someone getting late despite the latter having a perfect excuse in the form of, say an unavoidable traffic jam for instance. In Shepard's case though, working with Cerberus, a sworn enemy of the Alliance percieved as terrorist extremists by many is bound to overcome rational thought, already whittled down by two years of heightened emotions brought about by his supposed death. I'm actually surprised that Ashley isn't actually any more angrier than she is.

Modifié par LoweGear, 20 février 2010 - 08:11 .

[TheTrac3r]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Or the whole "god" thing and listing Shepard's history of accomplishments was merely meant as an angry, sarcastic shot at Shepard. I haven't heard how her lines were delivered, but my FemShep met Kaidan on Horizon, and I got that an angry, sarcastic vibe from his lines. However, my job tends to provoke those kinds of emotions, so I might have been projecting.

Kimberly Brooks didn't deliver it sarcastically.

"You're staring at a god Delan. Back from the dead."

There was no sarcasm there.

I'm sort of wondering if we need to look beyond the words and go for feeling.

BioWare has implied several times that, as a trilogy, the characters in ME1 were suppressed in ME2 so you can...well...play ME2, but will not be losing their importance to ME3.  IE: some will come back, if you're unfaithful they'll be consequences, etc etc.  Malcolm's right tbh.  Her speech did seem pretty weird.  I know it pissed me off quite a bit.  I pondered replaying ME1, and sending her to die instead.  I'll take **** from Kaiden, he was my Exec Officer in the first game.  I won't take **** from a damn grunt *I* rescued.  Then I thought, maybe BioWare purposefully included flawed dialog in an attempt to really ****** you off, so that you'll bond more (for the time being) with your new crew, cutties ties with the old.

[stillnotking]

Malcolm Theory wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Or the whole "god" thing and listing Shepard's history of accomplishments was merely meant as an angry, sarcastic shot at Shepard. I haven't heard how her lines were delivered, but my FemShep met Kaidan on Horizon, and I got that an angry, sarcastic vibe from his lines. However, my job tends to provoke those kinds of emotions, so I might have been projecting.

Kimberly Brooks didn't deliver it sarcastically.

"You're staring at a god Delan. Back from the dead."

There was no sarcasm there.

I heard it.  In fact, on my first playthrough, not knowing how the meeting was going to go, that was a big "uh oh" moment.  I admit it's not telegraphed strongly in her voice but the undertone is there.

Everyone can judge for themselves: Ashley meets Shepard on Horizon

[Mooner911]

stillnotking wrote...
Everyone can judge for themselves: Ashley meets Shepard on Horizon

damn... makes you want to punch her right in the brain