140 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

Valikdu wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
recruiting Mordin.

ehm, *these* ones didn't actually surrender, they still had guns and all

Looks like they surrendered to me.

[Urazz]

Valikdu wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
recruiting Mordin.

ehm, *these* ones didn't actually surrender, they still had guns and all

Yeah, but they did lower their weapons and were letting Mordin's assistant go.  I could understand their reluctance to drop their weapons.  All the aliens in the sector do think the humans released the plague so I can understand their wariness, especially since they are Batarians, a race that doesn't like humans much anyways.

Noone thought the Vorcha capable of releasing that plague and didn't think they would be working with people like the Collectors.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

Bigdoser wrote...

Well with renegades samara threatens to kill you. So for some people its removing a problem but then u are taking a succubus on your ship XD.

She said that she values your friendship and that she hopes that you do not cross paths afterwards because the code would require she kill you. For the sake of the friendship she hopes to never see you again. That's not exactly a promise to kill you. It implies that she has no plans to hunt you down... beside, she's the one who would end up dead if she tried.

Terraneaux wrote...

Mainly because Samara was dangerously self-righteous.  Morinth was an evil ****ed up ****, but she wasn't going to try to kill you or endanger the mission before it was completed.  Samara was enough of a zealot to cause problems.  

No, Samara is not a threat to the mission whatsover. Her adhearance to that code is a 99.9999% guarantee that she will see things through to the end. There is a 0% guarantee that Morinth won't, nerve rape the entire crew to death, slip out and run away while your out shopping on the Citadel. 

mepilot wrote...

You choose Morinth because you don't like how Morinth is given the choice of either imprisonment or death. Just for growing up into an Ardat-Yakshi through no choice of her own. And you don't like the lame reason why her mother wants to kill her.

Morinth is on my squad.

Plus I would be surprised if a weak ass Asari could melt Shep's brain during sex.

So if a dog gets rabies and goes about killing children we shouldn't do anything about it because it didn't choose to have rabies?

And that "weak ass Asari" does kill you if you have nerve pinch sex with her. GAME OVER. Load Last Save?

Modifié par Your Synthetic Superior, 20 février 2010 - 02:29 .

[AmstradHero]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...
She said that she values your friendship and that she hopes that you do not cross paths afterwards because the code would require she kill you. For the sake of the friendship she hopes to never see you again. That's not exactly a promise to kill you. It implies that she has no plans to hunt you down... beside, she's the one who would end up dead if she tried.

She doesn't want us to cross paths after our mission to destroy the collectors is finished... well, gee I hope I don't see her once that's done, you know...  like... on the Normandy... oh.. wait...

Why is Morinth an option? Because it gives players a choice. Just because you don't agree with that choice doesn't make it wrong. People have given a number of different reasons why they've chosen to side with Morinth over Samara, which are accurate for their roleplaying decisions for Shepard and his/her character.

Why do you feel you can tell anyone how they can or can't roleplay the game of their character?

There is no plot hole here because it is based on character choice.

[Ulicus]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah a friend WITH A GETH ARM AND WEIRD CYBERNETIC IMPLANTS NOBODY SHOULD HAVE!

Heh. I suspect the "implanted, geth-arm Saren" model was originally intended only for post-Virmire. Doesn't change what's on the screen, of course. But, meh.

I mean, it's kind of weird that Saren is all: "Look at me NOW! I'm a blending together of organic and machine!" when, uh, he looks exactly the same.

[Internet Kraken]

AmstradHero wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Renegade Shepard is just a jerk. It's not like he kills innocent civilians for jollies.

Except for where he kills an entire colony on Zhu's Hope. Or executes the Asari that gave him the cipher, or the asari in Saren's Krogan base.



Or for ME2, how about where he sentences a city to death in order to save its spaceport? Or gunning down Batarians who've surrendered? Or Krogan bodyguards. Renegade Shepard isn't a nice guy. He'll do anything in order to take down the Collectors/Reapers. If that means killing a justicar who will almost certainly turn on him later in exchange for the loyalty of a psychopathic killing machine, then he'll do it.

You misunderstand me. I didn't say renegade Shepard didn't kill innocent civilians. I said he never killed them just for fun. Renegade Shepard usually has a reason for sacrificing innocents or killing foes who have surrendered. The colony on Zhu's Hope? You don't know if the Thorian gas will work, and relying on it my jeopardize the mission. Shepard puts his mission ahead of the colonists lives. Cruel, but understandable. Killing foes who have surrendered? There still dangerous, and there is no guarnatee that they will not go back to crime. Renegade Shepard does not take risks. Again this is cruel, but still understandable.



Renegade Shepard has reasons to let innocents die. Morinth just kills them to satisfy her desires, and benefiting no one else in the process. It's impossible to justify her actions. Most of renegade Shepard's actions can be justified. There is a big difference between the two. Hence why it makes no sense for any Shepard to pick Morinth.

[Mars Nova]

mepilot wrote...

You choose Morinth because you don't like how Morinth is given the choice of either imprisonment or death. Just for growing up into an Ardat-Yakshi through no choice of her own. And you don't like the lame reason why her mother wants to kill her.

She might not have chosen to be an Ardat-Yakshi, but she did choose to kill her victims.  That being said, from the dialogue I've had with Morinth after choosing her just to see what would happen, I think there was more going on than Samara was letting on.  Just one reason I need to go finish that game.  The other being to see how dominate does in combat.  Another one being to ensure I have everyone's loyalty going into the final mission.

Not sure who's side I'll take when it comes time to the definitive playthrough.

[DarkNova50]

Asari sex vampire.



Yup, some people are kinky.

[Terraneaux]

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...



No, Samara is not a threat to the mission whatsover. Her adhearance to that code is a 99.9999% guarantee that she will see things through to the end. There is a 0% guarantee that Morinth won't, nerve rape the entire crew to death, slip out and run away while your out shopping on the Citadel. 

Her sense of self-preservation is too strong.  She understands the threat the Reapers and Collectors pose.  The problem with religious zealots like Samara is that sometimes they do things *against* their sense of self-preservation, and when you're on a mission to save all galactic life that's a bad thing.

[Internet Kraken]

Terraneaux wrote...

Your Synthetic Superior wrote...



No, Samara is not a threat to the mission whatsover. Her adhearance to that code is a 99.9999% guarantee that she will see things through to the end. There is a 0% guarantee that Morinth won't, nerve rape the entire crew to death, slip out and run away while your out shopping on the Citadel. 

Her sense of self-preservation is too strong.  She understands the threat the Reapers and Collectors pose.  The problem with religious zealots like Samara is that sometimes they do things *against* their sense of self-preservation, and when you're on a mission to save all galactic life that's a bad thing.

How is Samara a religious zealot? I thought the Justicar code was seperate from Asari religion.

[FlyinElk212]

OP: I hear ya man. While it's eluded to, I saw no real power difference between Morinth and Samara. I feel that the choice would have been MUCH more compelling if Morinth was so obviously more powerful than Samara--maybe instead of both of them at a standstill when you have to make the decision, Morinth could be biotic holding Samara to the ground, threatening to twist her neck w/ the bottom of her boot.



THEN it would've felt like a decision of morality versus power.

[RighteousRage]

There are two sets of choices you can make in the games

Correct - paragon

Incorrect - renegade

you choose

[AmstradHero]

Internet Kraken wrote...
Killing foes who have surrendered? There still dangerous, and there is no guarnatee that they will not go back to crime. Renegade Shepard does not take risks. Again this is cruel, but still understandable.

Renegade Shepard has reasons to let innocents die. Morinth just kills them to satisfy her desires, and benefiting no one else in the process. It's impossible to justify her actions. Most of renegade Shepard's actions can be justified. There is a big difference between the two. Hence why it makes no sense for any Shepard to pick Morinth.

As I stated before, it has made sense for Shepard to pick Morinth for some people's roleplaying of Shepard.

Again, I'll go with the argument, Samara is a justicar, and will almost certainly attempt to kill Renegade Shepard once her oath is spent which should be when the Collectors are defeated.  If Renegade Shepard is not taking risks, Shepard will ensure Samara doesn't get that chance.  Shepard can pull Morinth into line, but not Samara because of her justicar code.

To reiterate my above post, this is Shepard's choice aka the player's choice.  You can't tell people that their decision is wrong because it is their roleplaying choice to make.  Is every Renegade Shepard going to pick to side with Morinth? Obviously not. But that doesn't mean that people can't find a reason in their own depiction of Shepard's character to support her over Samara.

Live and let live. Roleplay and let roleplay.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 20 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[Terraneaux]

Internet Kraken wrote...

How is Samara a religious zealot? I thought the Justicar code was seperate from Asari religion.

She believes in justice without mercy to a ridiculous degree - and also assumes that anyone who does anything against her (police holding her for questioning, an entirely legal practice) to be in the wrong and worth killing.  Her belief either comes from her religion or is formed by such an unreasonably level of devotion that it could be considered one.  

[Terraneaux]

RighteousRage wrote...

There are two sets of choices you can make in the games

Correct - paragon

Incorrect - renegade

you choose

Not necessarily.  There are plenty of times when the Renegade path is the most efficient and worthwhile, and others (perhaps most of the time) in which Paragon is a better choice.  I generally see it as more of a 'plays well with others'/'antisocial' social dynamic than a sort of right/wrong choice.

[Internet Kraken]

AmstradHero wrote...
As I stated before, it has made sense for Shepard to pick Morinth for some people's roleplaying of Shepard.

Again, I'll go with the argument, Samara is a justicar, and will almost certainly attempt to kill Renegade Shepard once her oath is spent which should be when the Collectors are defeated. If Renegade Shepard is not taking risks, Shepard will ensure Samara doesn't get that chance. Shepard can pull Morinth into line, but not Samara because of her justicar code.

To reiterate my above post, this is Shepard's choice aka the player's choice. You can't tell people that their decision is wrong because it is their roleplaying choice to make. Is every Renegade Shepard going to pick to side with Morinth? Obviously not. But that doesn't mean that people can't find a reason in their own depiction of Shepard's character to support her over Samara.

Live and let live. Roleplay and let roleplay.

Most of this is irrelevant from what I said, but whatever.

And I believe we have a misunderstanding. I'm not saying players are wrong for picking Morinth. You are free to role-playing the game however you wish. However, that doesn't change the fact that there is no justification for picking Morinth. This is BioWare's fault. They should have given players a reason to choose Morinth over Samara. As it stands now there is no clear reason to do so.

Terraneaux wrote...
She believes in justice without mercy to a ridiculous degree - and also assumes that anyone who does anything against her (police holding her for questioning, an entirely legal practice) to be in the wrong and worth killing. Her belief either comes from her religion or is formed by such an unreasonably level of devotion that it could be considered one.

This doesn't make her a religious zealot. The Justicar code is mostly separate from religion as far as I know. She isn't killing people because the goddess told her to.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 20 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[RighteousRage]

Terraneaux wrote...

RighteousRage wrote...

There are two sets of choices you can make in the games

Correct - paragon

Incorrect - renegade

you choose

Not necessarily.  There are plenty of times when the Renegade path is the most efficient and worthwhile, and others (perhaps most of the time) in which Paragon is a better choice.  I generally see it as more of a 'plays well with others'/'antisocial' social dynamic than a sort of right/wrong choice.

What situations are there where the renegade choice actually nets you better rewards than the paragon choice? All I can think of is Pitne For in the Samara Recruitment where he gives a pittance for saving his ass. I guess you might include the Blood Pack krogan blabbing on over the gas tank, and maybe the merc lieutenant in Miranda's loyalty mission, but Shepard has been known to defuse dangerous situations with people being mind-controlled by demigodlike intergalactic beings, so you would think he could handle that at least. As you probably know, someone who is antisocial isn't going to fare as well as someone who gets along with others, as the paragon Shepard says.

"We need to work together" - Shepard

*foreshadowing*

Modifié par RighteousRage, 20 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[AmstradHero]

Internet Kraken wrote...
Most of this is irrelevant from what I said, but whatever.

If you think what I said was irrelevant then you missed my point entirely.

Internet Kraken wrote...
I'm not saying player are wrong for picking Morinth. You are free to
role-playing the game however you wish. However, that doesn't change
the fact that there is no justification for picking Morinth. They should have given players a reason to choose Morinth over Samara. As it stands now there is no clear reason to do so.

In your opinion. People have given reasons why they've picked Morinth over Samara, so obviously there must be clear reasons to do so, and they do have justification for picking Morinth over Samara. 

You think there's no clear reason to pick Morinth over Samara, and that's fine. Other people disagree.

That is the whole point.

PS I should add that I'm only part way through my second playthrough (which is renegade as opposed to Paragon) so I haven't actually sided with Morinth yet. My Paragon Shepard supported Samara without hesitation, but I know my Renegade Shepard is going to be extremely wary of Samara, and so when that opportunity comes up, she's not going to leave herself open to being killed by a justicar.

[Internet Kraken]

AmstradHero wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...
Most of this is irrelevant from what I said, but whatever.

If you think what I said was irrelevant then you missed my point entirely.

You tried to say that renegade Shepard does kill innocents. The main purpose of my post wad the counter this statement. At least that was my focus. It seems like we have a misunderstanding.

AmstradHero wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...
I'm not saying player are wrong for picking Morinth. You are free to
role-playing the game however you wish. However, that doesn't change
the fact that there is no justification for picking Morinth. They should have given players a reason to choose Morinth over Samara. As it stands now there is no clear reason to do so.

In your opinion. People have given reasons why they've picked Morinth over Samara, so obviously there must be clear reasons to do so, and they do have justification for picking Morinth over Samara. 

You think there's no clear reason to pick Morinth over Samara, and that's fine. Other people disagree.

That is the whole point.

Except that for every reason I have seen, there is nothing to support this decision in the game. That is the issue. People make up reasons to choose Morinth over Samra. These reasons should have existed in the game, but they don't. As it stands now there is no reason to choose Morinth over Samara. I don't see how you can really disagree with this. If this weren't true, then so many people would not be baffeled by this decision.

PS I should add that I'm only part way through my second playthrough (which is renegade as opposed to Paragon) so I haven't actually sided with Morinth yet. My Paragon Shepard supported Samara without hesitation, but I know my Renegade Shepard is going to be extremely wary of Samara, and so when that opportunity comes up, she's not going to leave herself open to being killed by a justicar.

This justification doesn't really work either since it's basically exchanging one potentially dangerous person for another potentially dangerous person. The difference between the two is that Morinth has proven herself to be far more dangerous than Samara.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 20 février 2010 - 09:48 .

[Kolaris8472]

What exactly do you need to do to have Samara threaten to kill you after the mission? I was almost completely Renegade, but apparently I hit a flag that made Samara want to follow me afterwards, or at least go help the people on Omega.

[Terraneaux]

Internet Kraken wrote...

This doesn't make her a religious zealot. The Justicar code is mostly separate from religion as far as I know. She isn't killing people because the goddess told her to.

First of all, I find it likely that her code is based on some aspect of the mainstream Asari religion, likely some nutso fringe sect, due to her being referred to as a monk and so on.  But there's a few ways that statement can be taken, so there isn't any hard evidence.  In any case, she definitely follows her code to the exclusion of all else, and is willing to kill people she otherwise likes in the furtherance of it.  It is more important to her than the lives of the people around her.  That's not the kind of person I would want on my ship.

[flem1]

Lmaoboat wrote...

Because Bioware knows that even if someone utterly irredeemable sociopath rapist/serial killer, there's going to be a group to people devoted to trying to make them look not so bad

This.

Pretty much the only reason even for a Renegade is metagaming.

Nice threadjack on Nihlus being gullible though. 

[Kolaris8472]

flem1 wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

Because Bioware knows that even if someone utterly irredeemable sociopath rapist/serial killer, there's going to be a group to people devoted to trying to make them look not so bad

This.

Pretty much the only reason even for a Renegade is metagaming.

Nice threadjack on Nihlus being gullible though. 

So you'd save the Ascension every time? Even if that meant the whole galaxy being wiped out by the Reapers again?

There are a lot of tough decisions in this game (Morinth is not one of them), I would hardly call the only reason to choose Renegade "metagaming". 

[The Other One]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

If you're renegade, Samara makes it pretty clear that once her oath is done, she hopes you never meet because she will be forced to kill you.

This is interesting because I took Samara on Legion's loyalty mission, and when it came time to choose whether to reprogram the Heretics or kill them, Samara said it would be wrong to reprogram them. Thinking this was a clue for the Paragon option, I followed Samara's recommendation and killed them. But it turns out that was the Renegade option!