88 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

aaniadyen wrote...
If she charged to get inside the shield radius you'd have put so many holes in her just as a reflex.

She's standing all of a foot or two from you. I.e., practically inside the shield radius anyway.  Sure, she'd almost certainly die.  No argument there, but she'd have a very good shot at taking at least one of you with her.

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[Tleining]

Looy wrote...

Am I the only one that shot her because she drew her weapon, not out of suspicion?

nope, me too. she grabbed her weapon, i interrupted it. If she would have answered my questions without that, i would have let her go.

[didymos1120]

Methany wrote...
Ok I think I remember seeing mention on that. But I stand by my point. There's not nearly enough evidence to trial and unilateraly convict her to death by firing squad by the time you meet her.

It's not a judicial proceeding, and you're not supposed to treat it like that.  It's a split-second decision made while fighting through a hostile merc base about whether or not to shoot a person who:

a. Provided you've asked around, you know is almost certainly a murderer.
b. Still one of the enemy you're currently fighting
c. Has every reason to lie to your face
d. And who then lunges for and acquires a gun and then starts to point it at you in very close, and therefore potentially lethal, quarters.

Shooting her is a completely reasonable response.  It's actually pretty hard to see why you'd even hesitate since that last action does nothing but ruin any credibility she'd built up at that point, which credibility was pretty damn shaky to begin with. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 20 février 2010 - 12:38 .

[didymos1120]

Although, that said: they screwed up. Instead shoe-horning in the line about "You made your choice", and giving her time to respond, Shep should have instantly capped her and then said the line.

[Gill Kaiser]

didymos1120 wrote...

Although, that said: they screwed up. Instead shoe-horning in the line about "You made your choice", and giving her time to respond, Shep should have instantly capped her and then said the line.

I couldn't agree more. Saying the line first shifts it from self-defence into being a dick and shooting a potentially innocent person.

[Methany]

didymos1120 wrote...

It's not a judicial proceeding, and you're not supposed to treat it like that.  It's a split-second decision made while fighting through a hostile merc base to shoot a person who:

a. Provided you've asked around, you know is almost certainly a murderer.
b. Still a one of the enemy you're fighting
c. Has every reason to lie to your face
d. And who then lunges for and acquires a gun and then starts to point it at you in very close, and therefore potentially lethal, quarters.

Shooting her is a completely reasonable response.  It's actually pretty hard to see why you'd even hesitate since that last action does nothing but ruin any credibility she'd built up at that point, which credibility was pretty damn shaky to begin with. 

I agree it's a reasonable decision to shoot her and I would never condemn soemone for doing so in those conditions. But if you know how security forces work (and Shepard most likely has some training in that), they only respond with lethal force to imediate threats( and the definition of that is altered by the presence of shields and the fact she's outnumbered 3 to 1), and she wasn't very much of a threat to Shepard. In short, I don't think it's wrong to kill her, given the situation you pointed out, but the right thing is to let her go.

Anyway, back to topic, there's no evidence against her when you meet her.

[Urazz]

Looy wrote...

Am I the only one that shot her because she drew her weapon, not out of suspicion?

Nah, the uniform caused suspicion for me but wasn't going to kill her.  Then she drew her weapon so I did shoot her then.

Kahlmulandr wrote...

no the best is still by far the Weyrloc Clanspeaker interrupt.....followed by express way down merc....THEN killing Elnora

That or giving the mechanic to the gunship on Garrus' recruitment mission a much needed 'break' because he works too hard.

Modifié par Urazz, 20 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[AntiChri5]

Urazz wrote...

Looy wrote...

Am I the only one that shot her because she drew her weapon, not out of suspicion?

Nah, the uniform caused suspicion for me but wasn't going to kill her.  Then she drew her weapon so I did shoot her then.

Kahlmulandr wrote...

no the best is still by far the Weyrloc Clanspeaker interrupt.....followed by express way down merc....THEN killing Elnora

That or giving the mechanic to the gunship on Garrus' recruitment mission a much needed 'break' because he works too hard.

Love that one.

[Barquiel]

I spared her...she's a great actor

Well, paragons can't always win

Modifié par Barquiel, 20 février 2010 - 01:10 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Nallski wrote...

If you have Zaeed with you on this mission you also get a comment from him saying "you're wearing an Eclipse uniform, that's good enough. Shoot her." In case you had forgotten Pitne For's comment that all eclipse mercs have to murder to get their colors, like I did my first play through.

Zaeed is such a badass.

[phordicus]

she's an idiot that thinks joining a ruthless merc group would be cool to tell her friends about. she deserves to die for her stupid pettiness alone.

[didymos1120]

Urazz wrote...

That or giving the mechanic to the gunship on Garrus' recruitment mission a much needed 'break' because he works too hard.

What I couldn't figure out there is why a Paragon didn't get their own interrupt, like just grabbing the tool and walking off.  

[Madecologist]

The game does give you a clue she is not being sincere and is a threat when you first meet her.

The camera panning to her gun seconds before the Interrupt is not a coincidence. It is like Shepard's battle sense is warning him she is preping to shoot him if she has too.

What kind of sweet innocent Asari is thinking that or planning that? None I tell you, just one that is not so sweet and innocent. You still go on a hunch, but that is your hunch.

[aaniadyen]

didymos1120 wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...
If she charged to get inside the shield radius you'd have put so many holes in her just as a reflex.

She's standing all of a foot or two from you. I.e., practically inside the shield radius anyway.  Sure, she'd almost certainly die.  No argument there, but she'd have a very good shot at taking at least one of you with her.

Only a foot or two? Jeez, I thought she was half way across the room. I'll need to replay Samara's loyalty.

[Homebound]

Locke72 wrote...

I actually tried that on my second playthrough. Unfortunately, if you ignore her room and go back after hearing the message, she is nowhere to be found. So its either gun her down renegade-style cause she's a lying-b**ch, or take the paragon route and be fooled into letting her go.

Id rather let a criminal go, than punish an innocent person. 

Then again, Id rather punish the criminal.

[Urazz]

Madecologist wrote...

The game does give you a clue she is not being sincere and is a threat when you first meet her.
The camera panning to her gun seconds before the Interrupt is not a coincidence. It is like Shepard's battle sense is warning him she is preping to shoot him if she has too.
What kind of sweet innocent Asari is thinking that or planning that? None I tell you, just one that is not so sweet and innocent. You still go on a hunch, but that is your hunch.

Exactly, it's what made me shoot her.  Especially when I saw her hands going to the gun.  That and I remember what Pitne said about eclipse before going on the mission and that got me suspicious at first.

Only thing I wish was that the interrupt was shoot first then say the line.  Not say the line and then shoot.  It made Shepard look like a thug.

[stillnotking]

People always joked about Chaotic Stupid choices for Renegade Shep in ME1. Letting Elnora go is a Lawful Stupid choice.

I don't see what the dialogue has to do with anything either. Are you worried that Shep will make her feel bad before killing her?

[archonambroseus]

stillnotking wrote...

I don't see what the dialogue has to do with anything either. Are you worried that Shep will make her feel bad before killing her?

The point is that lots of people take the renegade interrupt option in self defense; you're negotiating her release, and she pulls a gun.  It's completely rational to believe she's going to use it on you, so it's completely rational to kill her before she can squeeze off a shot.

By saying the line first, you give her a few vital seconds - more than enough time to down at least one of you if that's what she meant to do.  So any idea of "beating her to the punch" is totally negated and it comes down to thuggery rather than self-preservation.

Not that it's really thuggery to gun down a known murderer (since that's what wearing a Blue Suns uniform means), but you know what I mean.

[Ulysseslotro]

YR_Lim wrote...

topic.

Yes speak to Pitne when he gives you the keycard he will explain that the Eclipse members must commit murder as a joining ritual.  You should technically get Paragorn for not believing her and Renegade if you let her live.

Modifié par Ulysseslotro, 20 février 2010 - 07:26 .

[Pauravi]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

YR_Lim wrote...

topic.

Yes speak to Pitne when he gives you the keycard he will explain that the Eclipse members must commit murder as a joining ritual.  You should technically get Paragorn for not believing her and Renegade if you let her live.

I disagree.  You don't get Paragon for being right, you get Paragon for being compassionate.  The Paragon person errs on the side of empathetic values and on giving people a second chance, even if they might get burned by it sometimes.  Visiting swift justice upon the merc is certainly Renegade, even if it is arguably the more justifiable action.

[Sweetz]

I thought this was an interesting (and annoying) little encounter because, as far as I can tell, it's the only encounter in the game, both games actually, where the Paragon choice leads to a definite negative outcome.

E.g. Even something like the choice about saving the hostages or letting Balak go in Bring Down the Sky, you're trading off capturing Balak for rescuing the hostages. Here Elnora gets away and it's pretty much just like you screwed up, no silver lining for Paragons.

On my first playthrough (as a Paragon Shepard), I let her go, even remember what Pitne For said about the uniforms. I figured she was lying, but probably just killed some other merc (and you kill a ton of mercs as Shepard so it's hard to judge). On subsequent playthroughs, I feel compelled to kill her because I can't stand the tought of her getting away to do more harm (or being played). Having knowledge of what she did totally changes things.

I really wish there was an option to detain her, lock her in the room and blast the controls or something like that; so that there was a Paragon, or at least neutral, option that did end up in her getting away.

Modifié par Stevedroid, 02 avril 2010 - 06:53 .

[Xaijin]

Except bartenders.

[Ultai]

Looy wrote...

Am I the only one that shot her because she drew her weapon, not out of suspicion?

Yep, first playthrough as a paragade...but when she gave me a dirty look and started reaching for her gun, I guess self defense kicked in there.  

Modifié par Ultai, 30 mars 2010 - 03:59 .

[CrookedAsylum]

YR_Lim wrote...

I find it hard to shoot someone without evidence  . But is there proof that they need to kill before getting initiated?

They only get their uniform after they kill someone. She flat out lied and said she never killed anyone. It's why even my Paragon Shep was like, "HAHA -Boom-"

[Darth Drago]

This is one of those spots in the game where I really have to wonder about the writing in the game. You were told by Pitne For that each Eclipse mercenary has killed to earn their way into the group. Yet when you meet this Elnora, Shepard is seemingly stupid about that fact.

If you play the renegade side you get the easy interrupt that allows you to kill her but if your playing the paragon route all you get to do is talk to her and let her go.To me it should have been set up like those Batarians holding Mordan’s assistant where you get the final option not to let hem go and kill them.

Just because your playing a paragon shouldn’t make you totally stupid.