281 réponses à ce sujet

[Aurvan]

I think this is about what you're used to playing from before. I don't agree with you about the quick slot bar. It has been there from before Baldur's Gate 1, and that was definately NOT an action RPG. It's there to make the micro managing quicker. I am a Bioware "veteran" so to speak, and love the tactical nature (tactical game is not the same as strategy game btw.) of Dragon Age. So you should try to un-learn your Diablo 2 play style and adopt a Baldur's Gate 2 playstyle.

[Theesit]

I think story line is good but not enough.They said it Dark Fantasy Epic but i think it not "dark or fantasy" enough.In my oppinion it just like watching lord of the ring(full of heroic act and stupid betrayal).I prefer more mature sory line likes The witcher or more fantasy in BG series. (sry for my porr english)

[Viz79]

Don't agree with the OP at all - this sounds tike MMOitis. Ill get flamed for this but you are probably a Wow player right? You are complaining about difficulty of real time combat (BG needed pausing to play difficult but MMOs are real time), you are complaining about crafting expecting MMO detail and difficulty because you wont utilise the turn base to the level you need to. And it looks like you have had had tremendous difficulty with that is one of the most innovative ways to control party members (employed in Final Fantaxy XII). Shame for you.

[SpacelordMofo]

I was expecting a game like BG and NWN, not WoW, and that is what they delivered, only with MUCH more effective story immersion. Maybe the game just isn't for the OP?

[SLPr0]

Viz79 wrote...

Don't agree with the OP at all - this sounds tike MMOitis. Ill get flamed for this but you are probably a Wow player right? You are complaining about difficulty of real time combat (BG needed pausing to play difficult but MMOs are real time), you are complaining about crafting expecting MMO detail and difficulty because you wont utilise the turn base to the level you need to. And it looks like you have had had tremendous difficulty with that is one of the most innovative ways to control party members (employed in Final Fantaxy XII). Shame for you.

I am not a WoW player though I have played WoW I think a good portion of the American demographic can say the same....or that they have at least played MMO's of some type in the last 10 years.

So while I'll deny the "WoW player" stamp on my forehead, thank you very much, I will agree that it is MMOItis and enjoying the more action oriented real time play involved in them.

I saw elements of the same in The Witcher...even with its pre-"enhanced" version confusing interface, and of course Fallout 3 and Oblivion and more games than I can really care to mention from this point.

The difficulty as I see it is trying to comprehend how to react effectively in a real time enviroment in a pausable time manner. Especially considering that my decisions made during a pause period may no longer be valid tactics given the movements of my enemies while my orders are carried out.

My history with RTSRPG's goes back into older games, XCom/Fallout/Fallout 2, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, these I can understand, the micro management was not so potentially inaccurate due turn based movement and predictable or understandable limitations on the side of the computer AI enemies. This is much different. Cause as stated I can plan to attack an Ogre, I can pause the game and tell Alistair to go up and tank it and I'll flank it with the mages and then join Alistair with my warrior/champion for the rally buff...and in black and white that all sounds just fine.

Except once I unpause the game, the Ogre runs down the stairs and charges at me, Alistair is standing up where I told him to go looking useless and the mages are completely out of position, pause again, try to adjust, to again not be optimally handling the situation, and this is a simple single target situation, this is not even considering the massive waves of Darkspawn you face in other parts of the game that are constantly on the move and nearly impossible to predict.

So thats where I have trouble with this as an RTSRPG, because TBSRPG's are far easier to actually...strategize in, its hard to strategize for a constantly shifting situation.

But, I have to hand it to BioWare for making it a rather integral part of ensuring game longevity, there is absolutely no doubt they can claim over 80+ hours of gameplay, that is for sure. I suspect playing the game in "total control" mode would take, well, hours and hours to complete the Dark Roads or other long core quest campaigns.

Modifié par SLPr0, 07 novembre 2009 - 12:38 .

[SLPr0]

SpacelordMofo wrote...

I was expecting a game like BG and NWN, not WoW, and that is what they delivered, only with MUCH more effective story immersion. Maybe the game just isn't for the OP?

Again, the attempts to marginalize me are going to be largely ignored.

The game is for the OP, because the OP loves a good story. And as stated, there is very little else needed for me to "enjoy" the game.

RTSRPG/TBSRPG/Action RPG/MMO/ERPRPG....I really don't care as long as the story is so good and immersive that it truly makes me care about it.

So...marginalize if you must, but, you assume much with your quick judgments.

[Doreon Gray]

I can agree with the rogues having full lock picking and still being unable to pick a lot of locks... that's getting annoying.

Also the AI being pretty dumb even when you give the tactics sheet some well thought-out love.



Other then that, I'm highly enjoying the game.

[revcasey]

I like micromanagement. Micromanagement was a key ingredient in the two BG games and in the two NWN games. If you don't like micromanagement you got the wrong game by the wrong developer.



revcasy

[Krynis]

the problem with the tactics is created by her switching to melee if she is engaged in melee and not switching back, simply adding in a tactic that makes her target long range and or switch to a ranged weapon should make her change back after the fact or something of that nature.

Did not read everything as honestly its long winded and I became bored (sorry) 

On a side note, the rogues not picking locks despite max skill is related to lower then proper cunningness I ran into it for a level as well.

Modifié par Krynis, 07 novembre 2009 - 01:14 .

[finallyfast]

I agree with the OP in many of his assessments. The game is indeed compelling and fun, but the combat system and AI is lacking. I understand many like to micro-manage every round (I do too for the most part), but the system lacks the polish demonstrated in previous Bioware games. In the case of DAO, why bother with tactics and behaviors at all when the consistent opinion here seems to be you need to micro every action anyway? This tells me the tactics and behaviors are marginalized, and once more I've observed and experienced it. The game for me gets a 9.0 and that's based on vision, scope, and ambition rather than actual execution. Hopefully the game systems and mechanics will be improved though updates and patches.

[Cursed902]

well i read your entire post, and it was a very nice read indeed... i can see what you are saying on everything you stated, ive yet to even touch the tactics part of it, with 20 hours into the game so far, i may just not understand or accidently skipped the tutorial i dont know... its just confusing....but other then that very nice, mature post about the things you found, and Bioware clearly skimped on, in this otherwise great game.

[Serenity84]

Aurvan wrote...
I don't agree with you about the quick slot bar. It has been there from before Baldur's Gate 1, and that was definately NOT an action RPG..

Excactly. Even the Infinity Engine games have configurable quickbar slots. It's only 3 or 5, but they're there. It's nothing new in principle. The difference is that the fighters didn't have a whole lot of abilities then. Now every class has dozens of actions, so they needed to enlarge it.

[Luralene]

I wonder if the OP ever played Balder's Gate games. Those of us who have, understand the need for micro-management in this kind of game. It's based on the group need for tank, healer and damage dealer. You have those three, and do the micro-managing, you will do what the game is set up to be. And it won't seem so hard.

[Jide Aurelius]

I also hate the AI, I don like micromanaging all my chars but I found on easy I didnt have 2 do this as much. The tactics are pretty cool I just wish we had a force the team to folow you button, with out clickign everyones picture and tell them not 2 chase a genlock into a pack when their a squishy mage

[veryalien]

TLDR.



However to fix Leilana set her behavior to "ranged" and she will always use the bow. The daggers I only give her for stats... which I wonder if they have an effect when they're not equipped.

[O111]

I have to agree on some things.

I find it extremely frustrating that my rogue can't pick locks open. I've done almost nothing but buffing up dex/cun and taken three of the lockpick talents - yet I'd say most of the locked chest I encounter won't open for me. Possibly thanks to the level scaling system which is too heavy in this game.

Potions are a small problem, as are injury kits. I can manage most small encounters without spamming potions but I also often lose party members and lately I've been often out of injury kits. Needless to say; I won't be travelling back to camp all the time so I've just gone about with a few injuries on. The game should have more places to heal yourself in.

[Mithent]

I really hope all this complaining about the pausing mechanic doesn't deter BioWare from making future games with BG/DAO-like combat mechanics. As a tactical RPG, it's designed to be paused to order commands; if you don't care about that so much then the Easy difficulty is meant to minimise the need for that.



The tactical view and tactical pausing might be a throwback to a former era, but it's an era that has been sorely missed by many. I want to control what my party are doing, and am pleased that I can have limited AI so that they don't stand around twiddling their thumbs if their target dies, but I don't want the AI taking the initiative on using abilities on long cooldowns etc. As I opened by saying, I just hope that BioWare don't end up thinking that an action-orientated game is a safer bet and not making future tactical games. At least the reviews have been good (92% on Metacritic)!

[Drogo45]

SLPr0 wrote...

I'm not saying challenge is bad, I'm not saying dying is not an expected part of the dynamic.

What I am pointing out is that death, in large part, in DA:O is due to the stupidity of the AI system and a human players inability to micromanage four complex characters at once in a multi-target situation that also possibly involves traps and other hazards.
Pause buttons are for my DVR, not for my games. RTSRPGs are all well and good, but, as stated, you don't need a hotbar for an RTSRPG.

I shouldn't be out of stamina after using 5 attack moves and still have 9 - 12 more targets to take down.

I should be able to craft a stamina potion....I mean seriously theres a Superman reference in this game but I can't make Crimson Bull or something of that nature?

I'm not complaining about the challenge, I like challenges, what I don't like is stupid levels of micromanagement that are onerous to the point of unnecessary.

NPC AI should be self aware of their given abilities and play to their strengths unless instructed to do otherwise, they do not.

"Tactical positioning" thats lauded in the rather extensive amount of "LOADING" that goes on, is a sham because sure you can hit pause, tell your people to go to X, Y and Z on the battlefield and by the time they get there the target situation has changed and its more or less pointless unless you're willing to hit pause every 10 - 20 seconds and adjust to the new variables of the situation.

Thats not challenging. Thats not even gameplay. Thats...Derek Smart level stupid.

And this is why Bioware developed this game and not you.  However, go right ahead and develope the game you think should be developed.  

[Spaceweed10]

SLPr0 wrote...

Vasharai wrote...

TL;DR version of OPs post:

I'm too lazy to utilize the tactics screen properly, therefore the game isn't as good as you think it is.

Seriously... I've not once had a problem that I couldn't fix by tweaking the tactics for whatever character made a stupid move. The action bar is so you don't have to click around the screen madly as you're frantically pausing and unpausing combat. It in no way makes the game an "action RPG".

Most of your negatives, as far as I can tell, are simply your shortcomings with the game and not actual problems. A better way to have titled this thread would be, "I'm lazy, this game sucks"... That's the point you basically got across.

I'm not speaking as a "fanboi", I'm simply sick of threads about how the game sucks or isn't as good as everyone says it is because the poster thinks the game is WoW. You know... Mindlessly hitting the same 3 buttons over and over again without having to pay mind to anything around you. It's not an action RPG, stop trying to play it as one.

Most of the negatives in this post have come from people like you, throwing insults around because you refuse to understand or comprehend my point of view. I'm not asking you to agree with me, nor am I saying I am right, I am conceeding to the legitimate and reasonable responses given to why what I stated may be in error.

I've stated what I've tried, the games been released for 5 days, most of the people responding to me have likely got less than 16 hours total played so far, I love how there are so many "experts" on it simply on the lynch pin argument that it is "not an action RPG".

Thank you Captain Obvious for restating what about 20 other people have said, and what I already knew when I posted my post. Again I will restate that I had hoped for a truer marriage of the two different styles...wouldn't it be great if you COULD play DA:O like WoW? For you maybe not, for millions of others, maybe so, who are you to judge what anyone finds fun? I don't judge you for your love of micromanagement, don't judge me because I like to hack and slash? Shall we call it a deal?

But if you were to tell me that a game of this magnitude wouldn't be an instant no contest GOTY candidate if it was an action RPG, you'd be lying to me, and you'd be lying to yourself. Its a GOTY contender even without being an action RPG, if it had been, it would have been an instant classic, without doubt. And even you, who wants to tell me what I think and insult me...would still enjoy it if it was.

Dude, you clearly know very little about game genres.  You think this is RTS based?  Please, get a grip.

As for assumptions being made, you made quite a large one and did next to no research before buying a game, then coming to a forum to bash it because it wasn't what you 'expected' it to be.  The fault lies with you, not the game.  Bioware are famous for this type of gameplay, so just check their forum boards to see how many folk love what they produce.  They have no equal in this area.

My bet is you have barely scratched the surface of this game, or delved into any of the lore.  Your codex is probably half empty - as is your glass - and you just come across as a troll who has nothing better to do than try and get attention from some cyber 'friends'.

I have also made some assumptions here, but I'm probably not far off the mark - although you'll swear blind how wrong I am.  Who cares really.

By the way, did you try 'WoW'?  I think you will enjoy that type of dumbed down, neanderthal POS.

Better luck with your next game choice, or try and look a bit deeper into this one - you may find something you never knew was there...

[Spaceweed10]

Mithent wrote...

I really hope all this complaining about the pausing mechanic doesn't deter BioWare from making future games with BG/DAO-like combat mechanics. As a tactical RPG, it's designed to be paused to order commands; if you don't care about that so much then the Easy difficulty is meant to minimise the need for that.

The tactical view and tactical pausing might be a throwback to a former era, but it's an era that has been sorely missed by many. I want to control what my party are doing, and am pleased that I can have limited AI so that they don't stand around twiddling their thumbs if their target dies, but I don't want the AI taking the initiative on using abilities on long cooldowns etc. As I opened by saying, I just hope that BioWare don't end up thinking that an action-orientated game is a safer bet and not making future tactical games. At least the reviews have been good (92% on Metacritic)!

It won't deter them in slightest.  When you have monster hits with 'Balders' Gate', 'Icewind Dale', 'Fallout', and now this masterpiece, the ramblings of a part time, uninformed 'gamer' won't cause many sleepless nights.

The guy has aired his view, and been shot down by the majority - no surprise there - so let this dog sleep.

/thread.

[Iggynous]

"Whats more, within all this micro management there is simply no way to toggle through a mass of targets and hit a key that says "attack what I currently have targetted", no..you have to MOUSE CLICK a target to attack it, which, in and of itself shouldn't be so bad except all your idiot companions and all the idiot enemies are all clustered up and you can't click on a target efficiently without moving into "tactical view" (archaic throwbacks for the win) or ah ha...hitting pause again."



i haven't played the game yet, but what he says here scares me... so each mouse click gets one attack? like DIABLO? please tell me i'm horribly wrong...

[Iggynous]

Aurvan wrote...

I think this is about what you're used to playing from before. I don't agree with you about the quick slot bar. It has been there from before Baldur's Gate 1, and that was definately NOT an action RPG. It's there to make the micro managing quicker. I am a Bioware "veteran" so to speak, and love the tactical nature (tactical game is not the same as strategy game btw.) of Dragon Age. So you should try to un-learn your Diablo 2 play style and adopt a Baldur's Gate 2 playstyle.

 this guy is a smart cookie. LISTEN TO HIM

[FrostBornWolf]

Im inclined to agree with the OP. I was a player of Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 and hoped this would be like them.  I dont mind micromanaging my party, but there is some glaring design flaws. Lack of proper autopause functions, like on spellcast or combat rounds to give you the pause and oversight you need to properly orchestrate a combat. And action queuing, 1 action is just not enough.

[artmonster1967]

well from skimming this thread.



I have concluded the OP is just a bad gamer with no sense of strategy or will to overcome odds,



and a whiny poopy pants.



yes....a stinky poopy pants.



with a tendency to rage stomp.



*pew !!



.

[stylepoints]

Ok, there is a point of contention here I have to clear up. As far as the archer using melee goes. There are TWO "[resets" available for every companion. The one at the top left decides what abilities (scrapper defender archer etc.) there is one at the top RIGHT that says "default" most of the time. You can change this to things like aggressive or whatever, but there is also an option for RANGED. Set it to ranged and you wont see leliana charging into melee again.