281 réponses à ce sujet

[Xalm Grey]

I'm sorry you feel that way, I don't feel like I've wasted my money just based on the story alone but I do get how one could feel a bit daunted and discouraged by the level of micromanagement required and why you'd feel the way you do.

And I forgot to mention Jade Empire....it too didn't require this level of micro-management. Just like both KOTOR titles and Mass Effect. It gave you the ability to develop your companions for the roles you needed them to fufill...but they also pretty much played those roles without any need for a lua scripting GUI to tell them to.

To me if you develop an NPC party character a specific way in their character development, the AI should simply be using that development to its most efficient level without the need for handholding or requiring the player to literally script the NPC's style of play.

If I develop an NPC as a Shield Tank it should play as a shield tank, if I develop one as a healer it should play as a healer. To me that is control enough, in DA:O it requires even more management to get that level of control and even then...it doesn't feel like its adaptive enough to deal with combat situations of constantly changing variables.

I'm just hoping that posting this the devs can see that they have indeed a fanbase of their other games and it feels like they've completely forgotten about people that they have catered too since the BG days. BG was a long time ago and they've made alot of new things since then. I'm very suprised they didn't see that they were catering to one demographic when they have been creating another since those "old days". These days aren't the "old days" and gaming has changed alot since then. I'm suprised they didn't figure this out before release. Or if they did they chose to ignore it. At any rate this is the first time i've not really cared for a game by this company and i've been playing since NWN1. It seems like its too old for the times honestly. Bioware has effectively created two camps from what i can see on the forums. People that came in to knowing their company with BG/BG2 and those that came in on JE/ME etc.

Yes i some people cannot be catorgorized but quite a few can as well.

*Edited for some clarifacation*

Modifié par Xalm Grey, 08 novembre 2009 - 04:22 .

[artmonster1967]

Gawd you guys are whiny pansies !





.

[Xalm Grey]

artmonster1967 wrote...

Gawd you guys are whiny pansies !


.

Thanks for the bump.

Back to the topic though i pulled this up from Gamespot. I checked out their review and pretty much through out the whole thing you could have replaced "Dragon Age" with any of their previous titles and gotten the same result almost. Nothing said about how you have to handle the AI or anything really. My point is that so far this games advertising and reviews have made this game out to seem like an action rpg when it clearly isnt.

http://www.gamespot....slot;readlink;4

Modifié par Xalm Grey, 08 novembre 2009 - 04:38 .

[artmonster1967]

you're still being a whiny pansy.....



Your nitpicking style of trying to justify this to yourself is getting boring I hope you know...I happen to agree with it being an action RPG, to counter your point. Your argument is anti-marketing now....lol...



See ya...have fun in your misery.



let's see....there's YOU...or the WORKING gaming industry and developers, and reviewers, and player base (with thier own ratings at 9.0 and above mind you)....



who are you fooling? yourself?



I laugh at you.







.

[SLPr0]

Xalm Grey wrote...

artmonster1967 wrote...

Gawd you guys are whiny pansies !


.

Thanks for the bump.

Back to the topic though i pulled this up from Gamespot. I checked out their review and pretty much through out the whole thing you could have replaced "Dragon Age" with any of their previous titles and gotten the same result almost. Nothing said about how you have to handle the AI or anything really. My point is that so far this games advertising and reviews have made this game out to seem like an action rpg when it clearly isnt.

http://www.gamespot....slot;readlink;4

Well....Gamespot disqualified itself as a legitimate medium of review information with the whole Kane and Lynch: Dead Men scandal that occurred a couple years ago where a writer was fired for having given the game an honest review then a different review giving the game far more credit than it was worth was tendered up to the reading public.

So I pretty much ignore everything Gamespot has to say about any game based on that alone, their credibility is zero, and I don't put much stock in IGN's reviews either due to the mass marketing exposure packages they offer for game developers.

Point in fact, the Age of Conan title by Funcom was a highly marketed title and I have friends that work at the FC Raleigh-Durham offices that have confirmed to me that well over a million dollars was spent in marketing expenditures to several different internet gaming media networks to ensure maximum exposure of the game to the gaming public as the next big thing in MMO development...and if you remember the pre-release period for Age of Conan almost every major site on the internet was running AoC related material, had their BG images set up to expose viewers to the product and had ads for the game everywhere you looked.

And of course, over a million dollars in purchased marketing aside, AoC was a complete turd of an MMORPG beyond level 20, had not recieved the required amount of time to develop a solid market contender and even its beta process was under NDA and so sequestered that anyone that KNEW the game was full of holes beyond level 20 wasn't allowed to say so.

So reviews really are only what they're worth to a developer to buy them and DA:O has obviously purchased these mass marketing media exposure packages from the very same web networks that always "review" games and profit from and survive on the marketing dollars they recieve for the very same games they review.

This is still, not to say that DA:O is a bad game, its not, its great, just saying that gaming reviews in general are suspect and should be suspect from any organization that finances their entire operation on the marketing revenue of gaming advertisement.

[SLPr0]

artmonster1967 wrote...

you're still being a whiny pansy.....

Your nitpicking style of trying to justify this to yourself is getting boring I hope you know...I happen to agree with it being an action RPG, to counter your point. Your argument is anti-marketing now....lol...

See ya...have fun in your misery.

let's see....there's YOU...or the WORKING gaming industry and developers, and reviewers, and player base (with thier own ratings at 9.0 and above mind you)....

who are you fooling? yourself?

I laugh at you.



.

No one from the working gaming industry nor any developer to my knowledge, other than myself, has reviewed this game nor would they. I'm not "reviewing it" because I'm not a paid writer nor would I **** myself out as such for any game media marketing outlet. I am simply pointing out what I feel are portions of the games dynamic that did not live up to expectations, and calling for a better fusion of action RPG and RTSRPG elements.

Reviewers, as stated in my previous post, are suspect based on their profit models alone.

Who are you fooling? 

[Xalm Grey]

Well....Gamespot disqualified itself as a legitimate medium of review information with the whole Kane and Lynch: Dead Men scandal that occurred a couple years ago where a writer was fired for having given the game an honest review then a different review giving the game far more credit than it was worth was tendered up to the reading public.

So I pretty much ignore everything Gamespot has to say about any game based on that alone, their credibility is zero, and I don't put much stock in IGN's reviews either due to the mass marketing exposure packages they offer for game developers.

Point in fact, the Age of Conan title by Funcom was a highly marketed title and I have friends that work at the FC Raleigh-Durham offices that have confirmed to me that well over a million dollars was spent in marketing expenditures to several different internet gaming media networks to ensure maximum exposure of the game to the gaming public as the next big thing in MMO development...and if you remember the pre-release period for Age of Conan almost every major site on the internet was running AoC related material, had their BG images set up to expose viewers to the product and had ads for the game everywhere you looked.

And of course, over a million dollars in purchased marketing aside, AoC was a complete turd of an MMORPG beyond level 20, had not recieved the required amount of time to develop a solid market contender and even its beta process was under NDA and so sequestered that anyone that KNEW the game was full of holes beyond level 20 wasn't allowed to say so.

So reviews really are only what they're worth to a developer to buy them and DA:O has obviously purchased these mass marketing media exposure packages from the very same web networks that always "review" games and profit from and survive on the marketing dollars they recieve for the very same games they review.

This is still, not to say that DA:O is a bad game, its not, its great, just saying that gaming reviews in general are suspect and should be suspect from any organization that finances their entire operation on the marketing revenue of gaming advertisement.

Ahh i didn't hear about the K&L fiasco with gamespot i'll have to read up on it, although i played and finished K&L and yeah it was pretty awful unlike the review. I guess its a bit of me being niave when it comes to the advertising power that game companies have over the gaming mags and reviewers such as gamespot or IGN. Honestly its hard to tell sometimes these days if game devs are trying to sell you apples or oranges without some reliable reviewing info, which seems to be hard to find these days. I guess that sums up my problem here. I bought an apple when i wanted an orange eh?  

[artmonster1967]

SLPr0 wrote...

artmonster1967 wrote...

you're still being a whiny pansy.....

Your nitpicking style of trying to justify this to yourself is getting boring I hope you know...I happen to agree with it being an action RPG, to counter your point. Your argument is anti-marketing now....lol...

See ya...have fun in your misery.

let's see....there's YOU...or the WORKING gaming industry and developers, and reviewers, and player base (with thier own ratings at 9.0 and above mind you)....

who are you fooling? yourself?

I laugh at you.



.

No one from the working gaming industry nor any developer to my knowledge, other than myself, has reviewed this game nor would they. I'm not "reviewing it" because I'm not a paid writer nor would I **** myself out as such for any game media marketing outlet. I am simply pointing out what I feel are portions of the games dynamic that did not live up to expectations, and calling for a better fusion of action RPG and RTSRPG elements.

Reviewers, as stated in my previous post, are suspect based on their profit models alone.

Who are you fooling? 

silly boy....I didnt say the devs were reviewers.

let me hold your hand:

there are three catagories I pointed out that were in favor of the game and/or have a better perspective that  your minority nitpicking of how YOU think the game should be: 1.devs/developers, 2.reviewers, and 3.player base...(and thier own posted reviews as well).

all are above average to say the least....and have a lot more clout that your one person spouting of how YOU could do it better.

your self-imposed high horse isnt fooling anyone...we all know better. Youre preachin' to justify your own misery.

[fairandbalancedfan]

The OP stated his opinion in an honest manner and eloquently, which is a very refreshing change from the Troll posts we get that says the game sucks. As always you are entitled to your opinion.

[SLPr0]

artmonster1967 wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...

artmonster1967 wrote...

you're still being a whiny pansy.....

Your nitpicking style of trying to justify this to yourself is getting boring I hope you know...I happen to agree with it being an action RPG, to counter your point. Your argument is anti-marketing now....lol...

See ya...have fun in your misery.

let's see....there's YOU...or the WORKING gaming industry and developers, and reviewers, and player base (with thier own ratings at 9.0 and above mind you)....

who are you fooling? yourself?

I laugh at you.



.

No one from the working gaming industry nor any developer to my knowledge, other than myself, has reviewed this game nor would they. I'm not "reviewing it" because I'm not a paid writer nor would I **** myself out as such for any game media marketing outlet. I am simply pointing out what I feel are portions of the games dynamic that did not live up to expectations, and calling for a better fusion of action RPG and RTSRPG elements.

Reviewers, as stated in my previous post, are suspect based on their profit models alone.

Who are you fooling? 

silly boy....I didnt say the devs were reviewers.

let me hold your hand:

there are three catagories I pointed out that were in favor of the game and/or have a better perspective that  your minority nitpicking of how YOU think the game should be: 1.devs/developers, 2.reviewers, and 3.player base...(and thier own posted reviews as well).

all are above average to say the least....and have a lot more clout that your one person spouting of how YOU could do it better.

your self-imposed high horse isnt fooling anyone...we all know better. Youre preachin' to justify your own misery.

I stated I gave the game a 7 of 10 personally and indicated in the post itself that the game was not the next messiah of RPG gaming but more an example of a slightly above average student who had all the right educational opportunities and connections.

Your first category you hamfistedly attempt to point out are probably the worst critics of their own work, developers and designers always are, theres not a thing I've done, personally, as a designer/developer that I don't believe I could have done better or have just thrown out there and said "nothing could be better than this, this is the Sistene Chapel of my design capabilities", developers and designers...with the possible exception of Cliff Blezinkski...are incapable of this method of self blinding arrogance. So its likely that the "developers" as you put it, while satisfied with what they've released are just as aware of what could have been done better and they're probably either working on ways to update the game to make it even better than it is, or if not, they're drinking themselves into a stupor because they've achieved success with something they know isn't as good as it could potentially be.

Your second category I've already completely disqualified, find me a good review of this game from a news medium that doesn't make its money advertising it, and I'll read it, other than that its simply bait on the hook of paid fishermen.

Your third category is made up of people like me, people with their own opinions, and I don't see how simply because I disagree with all the self imposed ratings of 9/10 from everyone else somehow disqualifies my opinions. Are we all supposed to march in lockstep together? Is the presence of a mass opinion a true justification of a reality? If so theres several billion people that believe the world is going to end due to various mythological/religious prophecies and conspiracy theories, shall we all simply agree that this is the given truth of reality because several billion people believe these things?

Just because theres a McDonalds on every street corner in the world doesn't mean McDonalds is good, or that everyone loves McDonalds, quite the opposite.

And its the differences in opinion that matter. As a designer/developer myself, whos got plenty of people blowing sunshine up my arse daily about how great what I do is, its the people who stand out from that mass of agreement that help me to see where I need to improve. There are, of course, within that group of people simply raving maniacs that cannot be satisfied, but I think I've indicated that I am quite satisfied, I just think there are core elements of the games mechanics that could have been executed in a better fashion.

So anyways, responding to you will likely just get you to post another post where you call me and anyone that thinks differently than you a whiner, and thats fine, thats how you process the world and react to things, so do what you must.

[artmonster1967]

so you're a developer on the other side from these guys....and trying to convice us that the game is just Average....



sounds like industry jealosy to me.....



sorry bub...the walls of text arent foolin me.



.

[SLPr0]

artmonster1967 wrote...

so you're a developer on the other side from these guys....and trying to convice us that the game is just Average....

sounds like industry jealosy to me.....

sorry bub...the walls of text arent foolin me.

.

Yes well I can see how properly conveying thought in text and using punctuation in an efficient manner may cause you to immediately distrust anyone. So its okay that you aren't "fooled", as you put it. I can live with that.

Industry jealousy. Really? Good gods, any good title in the industry is good for the industry as a whole. If you think, somehow, that competing development houses all secretly hate each other and wish failure on each others projects, you do live in a rather funny little self defined bubble of perception.

And if seven paragraphs is a wall of text....never mind, I won't even go here, actually I already have but the irony of that will likely be fairly elusive.

Modifié par SLPr0, 08 novembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[artmonster1967]

*yawn..



whut?

[Odin_Hammersong]

In summary...







...derp.

[Teemu733]

If you really detest the tactical elements, you should just go Easy and save yourself the frustration.

[Azrailx]

opinions are great even when they are wrong



o wait

[MerinTB]

"Uh...no, don't equip ALL your characters with ranged and melee weapons unless you want to see Morrigan abandon her ranged based casting to fight like an idiot with a dagger, or watch Leilana constantly die using two rogue attacks and captivating song when she could be using Chorus of Valor and the OMGNICE bow I gave her and actually use her extremely well developed BOW talents...that she will absolutely ignore if you put a dagger/sword in her inventory regardless of what her tactics are set up to do. The only way she will remain in a ranged posture is if she does not have a melee weapon, this goes the same for both Morrigan and Wynne as well....its absolutely mind numbing."

Ok, that was a lot reading before I got tired of trying to see if anyone gave SLPr0 a piece of advice -

SLRPr0, the ranged problem you were having with the bard companion?

In the Tactics windows there are two pull downs, one for Tactics (Defender, Scrapper, Custom 1, etc) and one for BEHAVIORS (Default, Agressive, RANGED, etc.)

Set her for Tactics ARCHER and Behaviors RANGED, and you should be good for what you wanted.

Seriously - not only, in game, does the Codex explain the Tactics window to you, but on page 30 of the game manual it is explained quite adequately.

I must have missed someone else explaining this to him.

[Ravenshrike]

Marhkus wrote...

Isn't there a Double queue...? I read that somewhere. I understand your gripes but for me, the pausing, managing and all is part of the fun so, that's why I disagree. I like playing god with my puppets hehehe!

You can double queue in real time, but not through pause and not when attempting to move. Only hotbar actions.

[KirbySkywalker]

whats a "diatribe"?

[f3rth]

You play this game very differently than I do, but we have come to many of the same conclusions... there is a weird dichotomy in this game between the stunning artistry and polish and the half assed, mind numbingly retarded.



I don't use leliana but i encountered a similar situation with morrigan of all people, i equipped her with a couple weapons on the swap slot because i needed to eke out a few more inventory spaces before i packed up and went back to a vendor and to my surprise the sorceress decides to swap out of her awesome staff with the mana regen and spell power bonuses and try to attack anything that she can see up close and personal with a pair of daggers she has next to no training in...



I won't even go into how faulty the auto save system is...



It's a good game... but it really made me miss baldur's gate 2... in fact i think i might hunt down my install discs for that...

[FalloutBoy]

Yet another problem that is easily fixed by setting her to Ranged in the tactics screen.

[hazheel2]

SLPr0 wrote...


[*]The "Tactics" section for each character seems a great way to manage how your NPC companions deal with combat situations, letting you get down to the nitty gritty of enjoying the carnage but this is not the case, irregardless of HOW you set up your tactics for Leilana, the bow specialized bard, if you dare to give her a dagger or a sword she will immediately abandon ALL ranged attacks in favor of fighting on the front line, regardless of how you have her tactics set to bard and bow abilities...which is patently dumb and why she's probably brain dead from all the head trauma by the end and still thinks the story is going to go on.[/list]Now I realize there are people that enjoy hitting pause every 10 seconds and telling each of the 4 characters EXACTLY what to do, but to me, that sort of precludes the need for a hotbar at all, BUT I also realize there are people that count every tile in a tile wall by nature and enjoy spending a day folding all their laundry very neatly and placing it in vacuum sealed plastic bags and then categorically marking each bag for the day and time of use then organizing it all in their dresser drawers in a fashion that most normal people might find a little creepy.

[*]Hi, I had the same problem with Leilana, then i found the button in the upper right corner of the tactics screen. Change that one from default to "ranged" and she wont ever pull out the daggers
[*]hope this helps, didnt read the rest of the post, to much text for this early hour.

[Rafilialindal]

I'm going to sound like a real poser hear..but crpgs started going downhill fast when they started getting ported to consoles. I shouldn't have been suprised, but it was a real immersion breaker to run into the invisible barriers in DA. le sigh



Its a wonderful game with a fantastic story and hours of rpg goodness..but it really just makes me want to play Planescape, or Baldurs Gate.

[addiction21]

f3rth wrote...

You play this game very differently than I do, but we have come to many of the same conclusions... there is a weird dichotomy in this game between the stunning artistry and polish and the half assed, mind numbingly retarded.

I don't use leliana but i encountered a similar situation with morrigan of all people, i equipped her with a couple weapons on the swap slot because i needed to eke out a few more inventory spaces before i packed up and went back to a vendor and to my surprise the sorceress decides to swap out of her awesome staff with the mana regen and spell power bonuses and try to attack anything that she can see up close and personal with a pair of daggers she has next to no training in...

I won't even go into how faulty the auto save system is...

It's a good game... but it really made me miss baldur's gate 2... in fact i think i might hunt down my install discs for that...

F5 is your friend.

[SLPr0]

hazheel2 wrote...

SLPr0 wrote...


[*]The "Tactics" section for each character seems a great way to manage how your NPC companions deal with combat situations, letting you get down to the nitty gritty of enjoying the carnage but this is not the case, irregardless of HOW you set up your tactics for Leilana, the bow specialized bard, if you dare to give her a dagger or a sword she will immediately abandon ALL ranged attacks in favor of fighting on the front line, regardless of how you have her tactics set to bard and bow abilities...which is patently dumb and why she's probably brain dead from all the head trauma by the end and still thinks the story is going to go on.[/list]Now I realize there are people that enjoy hitting pause every 10 seconds and telling each of the 4 characters EXACTLY what to do, but to me, that sort of precludes the need for a hotbar at all, BUT I also realize there are people that count every tile in a tile wall by nature and enjoy spending a day folding all their laundry very neatly and placing it in vacuum sealed plastic bags and then categorically marking each bag for the day and time of use then organizing it all in their dresser drawers in a fashion that most normal people might find a little creepy.

[*]Hi, I had the same problem with Leilana, then i found the button in the upper right corner of the tactics screen. Change that one from default to "ranged" and she wont ever pull out the daggers
[*]hope this helps, didnt read the rest of the post, to much text for this early hour.

[*]This forum definitely has some scripting issues in regards to its BB code I'm stuck in list mode cause you used it in your post and I'm quoting it, rather hysterical.
[*]Anyways I did experiment with the behaviors drop down last night and found that while this did stop the annoying preference for melee ranged based characters have if you give them a melee weapon, it also produced some other strange results in regards to ranged characters suddenly stopping moving at the last battle point and you only notice they're not there once you're at the next battle point and theres no ranged damage coming in.
[*]I have not figured out whats causing this it doesn't seem to be anything to do with the tactics set up, it just seems to occur randomly and it only occurs when I set behaviors off default, I also noticed this happening with Soris as I played the city elf origin storyline and we were attacking the Arl's estate, he would at times just stand there beside me as things hit me and do nothing...while set to Aggressive and I even had a specific tactic set up in his available tactic slot that specific said if Hero being attacked by melee attack use ability shield bash...and I guess theres just not a final qualifer there that says "on the enemy that is attacking the hero" but I figured that was assumed from the first part of the script statement....regardless even in the case of Soris who was not being utilized as a ranged character but as a damage sponge for my elf rogue, he would occasionally just stop moving or reacting appropriately at all if the Behavior drop down was set to settings other than default, I also saw this occur with Alistair on my human mage origin run through last night as well.
[*]So this lends more support to my opinion that tactics do not work, even though my original statements in regards to them were initially incorrect, I still feel even with a deeper look at the Tactics system and attempting to do more with it that there are either bugs in the lua system that manages it or its simply to vague for even what appear to be obvious rules and conditions to function as expected.