101 réponses à ce sujet

[XxCITIZENxX]

Wilson should get his own spin-off game

[Cutlass Jack]

mac35 wrote...

People are really trying to say that Miranda was the traitor and Wilson wasn't?

Traitor? No I wasn't saying Miranda was a Traitor. She's the Loyalist. She always follows orders.

[The Angry One]

... am I the only one who keeps thinking about Tom Hanks shouting "WILSON!" when reading the topic title?

[Madecologist]

I think Jacob is the traitor.. Wilson was loyal. Consider the implication if it were true.....

Someone... shoot me....

[The Angry One]

XxCITIZENxX wrote...

Wilson should get his own spin-off game

Wilson and Richard L. Jenkins in: Redshirt Effect.

[ToshiStation38]

The Angry One wrote...

... am I the only one who keeps thinking about Tom Hanks shouting "WILSON!" when reading the topic title?

LOL Not anymore.

[English Cooper]

The Angry One wrote...

... am I the only one who keeps thinking about Tom Hanks shouting "WILSON!" when reading the topic title?

No I thought the same thing 

[Cutlass Jack]

Madecologist wrote...

I think Jacob is the traitor.. Wilson was loyal. Consider the implication if it were true.....
Someone... shoot me....

Well that would be a spectacular twist no one saw coming. I approve.

[Internet Kraken]

I've never believed that Wilson was a traitor because it never made sense. How the hell would Cerberus allow one member of the medical staff to hack every mech in the station with them having no way of regaining control? It was a setup by TIM to get Shepard to trust Mirana and Cerberus.

[EnvyXx]

Why did Wilson betray everyone, I still don't get the motive.

[ToshiStation38]

EnvyXx wrote...

Why did Wilson betray everyone, I still don't get the motive.

Well, personally, I think he was hired by the Shadow Broker.

[Jedi_blues]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Jedi_blues wrote...

You're calling my facts circumstantial while you practically make up evidence?

Covering Lazarus is as easy as blowing up the station. TIM said Wilson was one of his best agents. TIM wouldn't just kill a scientist that was that valuable. He would just reassign him. Cerberus wasn't exactly shy about the fact that they brought Shepard back,  there is no need to "clense" the cell that deeply. What you are saying doesn't make sense. Using that logic he would just kill Miranda too. But he didn't, because Miranda is valuable. So is Wilson.

Overload still leaves mech pieces, the game just cleans them from the environment quickly. 

Obviously when he made the "plea for help" he had time to reprogram the mechs to attack him as well to make his alibi believable.

Such a stretch. He had time to reprogram the mechs and shoot himself in the leg convincingly in the short time it took you to run up the hallway? He wasn't even near a control panel. There is really no hard evidence pointing at Wilson whatsoever. The closest thing you get is a minor comment in one of his journals mentioning how he wished TIM would send a little money his way. Made him sound like every other employee of the galaxy.

So explain to me why Miranda left armor and a weapon next to an unsecured spectre with a history of hating Cerberus without binding him? (not to mention fully dressed) Also explain to me how she had complete control of the surveillance equipment, and could even unlock doors for him, but couldn't control the mechs?

Or how about thse two damaged mechs crawling around in Wilson's office? What's their story? Looked to me like Wilson fought his way out of his office and ran to the control room.

TIM wouldn't kill Miranda because the point of the exercise was to get Shepard to trust her and be too busy to ask tricky questions about Cerberus. Seeing the Cerberus personnel give their lives to save him, would make Shep see them in a more positive light. He needed to get Shep on board quickly so they'd get to Freedom's Progress in time.

We can go back and forth on this all day. Clearly Bioware left all the clues as to Wilson's guilt. To be any more clear they would have had to hit you over the head with it. You're inventing evidence and adding context where there is none. Either you are so anti Miranda that you can't see the facts, or you desperately need to read a few Batman comics or Sherlock Holmes novels.

[EnvyXx]

Madecologist wrote...

I think Jacob is the traitor.. Wilson was loyal. Consider the implication if it were true.....
Someone... shoot me....

Its cuz he's black uh huh :b

[Sister Helen]

The part of that episode that didn't ring true to me was Shepard deciding NOT to investigate the base for survivors, once Jacob tells Shep that he was the only important person in the Lazarus Project and everyone who signed on for it knew what they were getting into. (Yes, I know, Miranda mentions that any survivors would be in the evac area already, but I don't buy that. If you're a civilian scientist-janitor-cook-whatever and there's a ton of out of control machines with guns running around, you would probably find a very large set of impenetrable crates to hide behind until the shooting stops.)

Shep in the past cleared out enemy bases fairly easily and had no assurances that the two people he just met five minutes ago were trustworthy - in fact, one shoots a civilian co-worker (Wilson) without even blinking. At that time, there's no indication that the base has been placed on self-destruct or that the mechs are unlimited in number. Shep should have checked out the base anyway, calling Miranda's bluff that she would leave without him -- if Shep is soooo important that there was a whole project built around him for two years, they would not leave him behind with an airy wave (as Miranda implied.)  To be candid, I suspected Jacob, Miranda, and Wilson of being the "traitor," because there was not enough info to exonerate any of them.

Modifié par Sister Helen, 20 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[Tisiphne]

Well, TIM isn't paying me too well, either, so I feel Wilson's pain.

ToshiStation38 wrote...

EnvyXx wrote...

Why did Wilson betray everyone, I still don't get the motive.

Well, personally, I think he was hired by the Shadow Broker.

There are a couple logs where he complains about money. I think we're supposed to assume he was bribed by *somebody*. Shadow Broker seems a good guess.

Modifié par Tisiphne, 20 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[jklinders]

I've been nursing an idea about this since my first playthrough. There is just not enough info to back it up.

This is what we know for certain from the logs.

Wilson does not like Miranda ie: cold hearted *****, maybe she is afraid she is not going to be the favorite much longer.

Wilson felt he was undercompensated for his work.

Miranda had no interest in releasing shepard until she felt he was the real deal. We also know from later conversations that she is a perfectionist.

Wilson is not supposed ot have access to the meck security protocols.

I do not think the above can be argued against, the rest of this post is speculation.

Maybe just maybe, TIM was getting impatient to move to the next phase of his plan to make himself galactic emperor and through an intermediary offerred Wilson a boatload of cash to sabotage the station. Giving him access to the mechs in the process. He does this because Miranda is taking to long to clear Shepard as being ready and he does not want to undermine her confidence in herself. He likely figured Miranda to work out who reprogrammed the mechs and deal with Wilson as a traiter should be.

OK I know this sounds nuts but consider that he has 2 agent on that station whom he has confidence in and he knows Miranda will let nothing happen to Shepard. TIM makes a number of "calculated risks" throughout this game and from the numerous reports he likely felt that Shep was ready.

Only a theory but TIM never shows anything resembling concern over a security breach of his most important project and Wilson is never mentioned again. That kind of casual attitude comes from knowing all the facts of why Wilson acted and knowing that there is nothing to worry about because he was in control the entire time.

That's all I got.

[The Angry One]

Possibly the Illusive Man wanted to get rid of all expendable personnel and technology in the Lazarus Cell when they were no longer needed, and bribed Wilson through a third party.

Shep would have to get out through trial-by-fire but it wouldn't be the only time he's dumped Shep in the **** creek without a paddle - he knows Shep will win anyway.

[mac35]

Internet Kraken wrote...

I've never believed that Wilson was a traitor because it never made sense. How the hell would Cerberus allow one member of the medical staff to hack every mech in the station with them having no way of regaining control? It was a setup by TIM to get Shepard to trust Mirana and Cerberus.

That makes *slightly* more sense than Miranda being the person who set it up but again, what good does it do TIM to set all of that up? It's not like the attack made Shepard loyal to Cerb or TIM. TIM could have just woken Shep up when ready, told him "hey, you were dead, we fixed you and now you owe us one....and PS humanity needs your help" and Shep still would have gone for it. No need for Miranda OR TIM to go through the attack and risk 2 years of work and credits being flushed down the toilet if Shep were killed again.

[Jedi_blues]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

I think Jacob is the traitor.. Wilson was loyal. Consider the implication if it were true.....
Someone... shoot me....

Well that would be a spectacular twist no one saw coming. I approve.

Apparently the "we never landed on the moon" crowd is here. 

It wasn't Wilson, or Miranda, or Jacob. It was Lee Harvey Oswald taking orders from the Mess Sergeant. 

Modifié par Jedi_blues, 20 février 2010 - 05:57 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Jedi_blues wrote...

We can go back and forth on this all day. Clearly Bioware left all the clues as to Wilson's guilt. To be any more clear they would have had to hit you over the head with it. You're inventing evidence and adding context where there is none. Either you are so anti Miranda that you can't see the facts, or you desperately need to read a few Batman comics or Sherlock Holmes novels.

So what you're saying is that you can't counter any the opposite points but instead argue that a few bits of circumstantial evidence concretely show his guilt. Have you ever actually read a Sherlock Holmes novel? There wasn't enough evidence to even put him on trial, let alone convict.

But no, you're completely correct. TIM never at all tries to pull anything over at you at any given point of the story.

[Sister Helen]

Don't diss TIM.  The Alliance couldn't be bothered to recover your body... or the bodies of your dead crew. 

[Sister Helen]

Don't diss TIM.  The Alliance couldn't be bothered to recover your body... or the bodies of your dead crew. 

[Cutlass Jack]

mac35 wrote...

That makes *slightly* more sense than Miranda being the person who set it up but again, what good does it do TIM to set all of that up? It's not like the attack made Shepard loyal to Cerb or TIM. TIM could have just woken Shep up when ready, told him "hey, you were dead, we fixed you and now you owe us one....and PS humanity needs your help" and Shep still would have gone for it. No need for Miranda OR TIM to go through the attack and risk 2 years of work and credits being flushed down the toilet if Shep were killed again.

The attack on Freedom's Progress just happened. It was Cerberus' best chance to get there before anyone else, and they needed Shepard to go to get him completely on their side. There was no time to waste.

If Shepard wasn't good enough to fight his way past a few mechs with a toothbrush in his current state then he'd never be able to handle any real challenges that came after. So yes the project would have been a waste either way. Best to find out if they succeeded in a vaguely controlled situation before trusting him with a Starship.

[Jedi_blues]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Jedi_blues wrote...

We can go back and forth on this all day. Clearly Bioware left all the clues as to Wilson's guilt. To be any more clear they would have had to hit you over the head with it. You're inventing evidence and adding context where there is none. Either you are so anti Miranda that you can't see the facts, or you desperately need to read a few Batman comics or Sherlock Holmes novels.

So what you're saying is that you can't counter any the opposite points but instead argue that a few bits of circumstantial evidence concretely show his guilt. Have you ever actually read a Sherlock Holmes novel? There wasn't enough evidence to even put him on trial, let alone convict.

But no, you're completely correct. TIM never at all tries to pull anything over at you at any given point of the story.

No I'm saying I haven't seen you say anything that makes sense that counters the basic clues and facts Bioware put in the game. I have facts, you have supposition, and that particular tennis match gets old. Obviously it wouldn't take Wilson long to reprogram the targeting parameters, Shep did it pretty quickly later in the game. 

I'm not saying TIM isn't behind it somehow, but if he was he clearly used Wilson and Miranda. 

[Cutlass Jack]

Sister Helen wrote...

Don't diss TIM.  The Alliance couldn't be bothered to recover your body... or the bodies of your dead crew. 

Don't get me started on the Alliance. Yes TIM does look great compared to them. Or the Council.

"Ah yes, 'Reapers.' We have dismissed that Claim."