I find that it's a real sudden change of Miranda's attitude towards TIM and her essentially telling him to f*ck off when he offers a way to have the base taken intact.
I really don't remember TIM specifically screwing Miranda over during any part of the storyline and she always spoken so very highly of TIM when you talk to her in her office. She trusts TIM and TIM trusts her, to the point that Miranda is one of the few Cerberus operatives to actually meet and talk to TIM in the flesh.
So why does Miranda suddenly hate him? I just don't get it.
Same goes for the staff of the Normandy too, why defect from TIM?
Sure they thank Shepard, but like Miranda said, the whole operation is still a Cerberus operation and Shepard is a product of Cerberus.
What about EDI? She's been transmitting info to TIM the whole time during the final mission. Then she suddenly decides to defect?
What did TIM do to piss Miranda off?
Débuté par
lltoon
, févr. 20 2010 06:13
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#2
Guest_yfhfrg_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:17
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I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
#3
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:19
marshalleck
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Miranda believes whole-heartedly in Cerberus' ideals, furthering humanity and all that.
Keeping the human smoothie machine runs contrary to that, especially after Shepard presumably spends the whole game showing her that Cerberus' methods aren't the only way to get things done (we are talking about paragon Sheps here, right?)
Keeping the human smoothie machine runs contrary to that, especially after Shepard presumably spends the whole game showing her that Cerberus' methods aren't the only way to get things done (we are talking about paragon Sheps here, right?)
#4
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:20
The Angry One
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The human flesh melter isn't exactly the only item of worth in that base, it's full of Collector and possible Reaper tech, a great boon for humanity. At least to the eyes of a Cerberus fanatic like, y'know, Miranda.
#5
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:21
Srau
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Nothing i guess.
She is just starting to think Shepard's way to behave is better.
Much like Ashley/Kaidan says when they meet up : "you are in front of a god", and TiM is far from being one.
She is just starting to think Shepard's way to behave is better.
Much like Ashley/Kaidan says when they meet up : "you are in front of a god", and TiM is far from being one.
#6
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:21
Daeion
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Miranda actually tells off TIM? WTF, I missed that somehow...
Modifié par Daeion, 20 février 2010 - 06:25 .
#7
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:21
lltoon
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yfhfrg wrote...
I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
But from her point of view 'studying' the collector base would be no different than the project 'studying' biotic children. She always had some explanation for the actions of Cerberus. Why the sudden change of heart? Especially in her eyes, she hasn't seen a Cerberus project that was unethical. It was always some inside traitor or some sabotage.
#8
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:22
Cutlass Jack
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Because saving a base that is used to liquify humans is crossing the line. She thought Cerberus existed to improve Humanity.
Though I didn't take her on the part where she resigns, the one thing she did do that does make me think better of her was how hard she tried to free the crew/colonists when you find them in the tubes. She was as horrified as anyone else.
As for EDI she considered herself part of the crew of the Normandy. Not TIM's agent. Once the blocks were removed she was free to make her own choices.
Though I didn't take her on the part where she resigns, the one thing she did do that does make me think better of her was how hard she tried to free the crew/colonists when you find them in the tubes. She was as horrified as anyone else.
As for EDI she considered herself part of the crew of the Normandy. Not TIM's agent. Once the blocks were removed she was free to make her own choices.
#9
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:22
The Angry One
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Srau wrote...
Nothing i guess.
She is just starting to think Shepard's way to behave is better.
Much like Ashley/Kaidan says when they meet up : "you are in front of a god", and TiM is far from being one.
Kaidan says legend not god.
And promptly tell Shepard to screw off.
#10
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:22
Cutlass Jack
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Daeion wrote...
Miranda actually tells off TIM? WTF, I missed that somehow...
Yep. You need to bring her to the final battle to hear it though.
#11
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:23
rpgchuck
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The Angry One wrote...
The human flesh melter isn't exactly the only item of worth in that base, it's full of Collector and possible Reaper tech, a great boon for humanity. At least to the eyes of a Cerberus fanatic like, y'know, Miranda.
Since she sees reason and comes to her own conclusion about the base, maybe she's not a fanatic?
#12
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:23
Toxik King
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Collector ship thingy maybe? 
The rest of the crew were in Cerberus just for that mission, atleast everyone you talk to and overhear is.
EDI probably knows that if she goes back to Cerberus she'll be shackled again. No intelligent person would want that. Also, EDI+Joker=
EDIT: With Jack and biotic children and stuff she says a rogue cell of Cerberus did it, so she freaked out when she heard TIM doing the evil stuff.
The rest of the crew were in Cerberus just for that mission, atleast everyone you talk to and overhear is.
EDI probably knows that if she goes back to Cerberus she'll be shackled again. No intelligent person would want that. Also, EDI+Joker=
EDIT: With Jack and biotic children and stuff she says a rogue cell of Cerberus did it, so she freaked out when she heard TIM doing the evil stuff.
Modifié par Toxik King, 20 février 2010 - 06:27 .
#13
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:24
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Daeion wrote...
Miranda actually tells off TIM? WTF, I missed that somehow...
You have to bring her to the final battle and don't give TIM the collector base.
#14
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:25
Daeion
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Cutlass Jack wrote...
Daeion wrote...
Miranda actually tells off TIM? WTF, I missed that somehow...
Yep. You need to bring her to the final battle to hear it though.
yeah, remembered I brought her the one time I kept the base...
#15
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:27
The Angry One
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rpgchuck wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
The human flesh melter isn't exactly the only item of worth in that base, it's full of Collector and possible Reaper tech, a great boon for humanity. At least to the eyes of a Cerberus fanatic like, y'know, Miranda.
Since she sees reason and comes to her own conclusion about the base, maybe she's not a fanatic?
Yeah, Miss "Cerberus saved me"
Miss "Cerberus is awesome"
Miss "I love teh Illusive Man he's so great."
I don't buy it.
Plus her sister is under Cerberus protection. Funny how she doesn't consider that TIM might order her killed or worse, just to be a dick. He's capable of it.
#16
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:27
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I think the idea is that all the quest SHep does, including Miranda's loyalty quest and saving your crew from the collectors make them more loyal to you than to Cerberus.
you save their lives and protect miranda's sister. i don't think this is necessarily good enough since you hear the crew talking about how cerberus is taking care of their families back home on earth or colonies. so who is providing the whole crew's paycheck?
you save their lives and protect miranda's sister. i don't think this is necessarily good enough since you hear the crew talking about how cerberus is taking care of their families back home on earth or colonies. so who is providing the whole crew's paycheck?
#17
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:28
Volourn
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It's very logical Miranda would tell TIM to ****** fof. She's not into mass murder - espicially of humans. remember, she was disgusted to find out what happened at Jack's old home. Throughoutt he game she uses excuses to wash Cerbeus and TIM's many sins. She finally has enough, and stops making excuses. It's called opening your eyes.
Think of it a **** soldier who is 100% loyal to Hitler, and ebcause of this is repeatedly promoted. He sees or ehars things that Hitler has done but always has an excuse to make it seem acceptable. Finally, that soldier finds out soemthing that can't simply eb white washed and then turns his back on Hitler. That's what happens to Miranda.
Think of it a **** soldier who is 100% loyal to Hitler, and ebcause of this is repeatedly promoted. He sees or ehars things that Hitler has done but always has an excuse to make it seem acceptable. Finally, that soldier finds out soemthing that can't simply eb white washed and then turns his back on Hitler. That's what happens to Miranda.
#18
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:28
marshalleck
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lltoon wrote...
yfhfrg wrote...
I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
But from her point of view 'studying' the collector base would be no different than the project 'studying' biotic children. She always had some explanation for the actions of Cerberus. Why the sudden change of heart? Especially in her eyes, she hasn't seen a Cerberus project that was unethical. It was always some inside traitor or some sabotage.
I think your perception of Miranda's character doesn't really mesh with Miranda in the game. Did you do her loyalty missions and go through all her dialogue? Take her on other missions? She changes a lot over the course of the game. Miranda in the Collector base is not the same Miranda that was on the Lazarus station in the beginning.
Modifié par marshalleck, 20 février 2010 - 06:29 .
#19
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:28
Gavinthelocust
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Legion is going to be jelous.Toxik King wrote...
Also, EDI+Joker=
#20
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:29
padaE
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I think it's not about leaving Cerberus, is about staying with Shepard. But she clearly has doubts if saving the collector base is the right choice, she says so to youif you talk to her after saving the base.
#21
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:29
The Angry One
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Gavinthelocust wrote...
Legion is going to be jelous.Toxik King wrote...
Also, EDI+Joker=
Legion wants Shep.
Whatever the gender.
Modifié par The Angry One, 20 février 2010 - 06:29 .
#22
Guest_yfhfrg_*
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:30
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lltoon wrote...
yfhfrg wrote...
I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
But from her point of view 'studying' the collector base would be no different than the project 'studying' biotic children. She always had some explanation for the actions of Cerberus. Why the sudden change of heart? Especially in her eyes, she hasn't seen a Cerberus project that was unethical. It was always some inside traitor or some sabotage.
Like you said, she thinks the 'dark side' of Cerberus is all explained by people going 'rogue'. But this order comes straight from TIM, who she seems to have thought didn't know much of anything about what was really happening in the facility where Jack was being studied. I think she was loyal to TIM first and foremost and her loyalty to Cerberus all stemmed from that.
#23
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:34
Shadowrun1177
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This is just my opinion, but I think Miranda after seeing what the Collector base did to human's, combined with TIM's words to Shepard about what he did for Shepard and all that make her decide to resign and tell TIM where to shove it. Add in all that Shepard did to help Miranda saving her sister and talking her into talking to her sister made her trust Shepard's choice to destroy the base.
#24
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:36
GenericPlayer2
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yfhfrg wrote...
I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
Exactly. I firmly believe that all that stuff about furthering humanity is a recruitment slogan for people like Miranda - she even goes as far as comparing Cerberus to the STG.
#25
Posté 20 février 2010 - 06:39
Bigdoser
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Volourn wrote...
It's very logical Miranda would tell TIM to ****** fof. She's not into mass murder - espicially of humans. remember, she was disgusted to find out what happened at Jack's old home. Throughoutt he game she uses excuses to wash Cerbeus and TIM's many sins. She finally has enough, and stops making excuses. It's called opening your eyes.
Think of it a **** soldier who is 100% loyal to Hitler, and ebcause of this is repeatedly promoted. He sees or ehars things that Hitler has done but always has an excuse to make it seem acceptable. Finally, that soldier finds out soemthing that can't simply eb white washed and then turns his back on Hitler. That's what happens to Miranda.
this.
