On my first playthrough as I moved around the ship and heard the crew talking, chatting with Miranda and others and of course doing missions it did seem that TIM was trying to make Cerberus more mainstream. About halfway through thats when missions come up and these could not be excused by any means despite what TIM tried to say. Basically by the time I got to the Collector base it came down to the fact that TIM BUYS loyalty in any way he can. Shepard EARNS the people's loyalty. And by the end of the game that finally gets through to Miranda. So the 'about face' came as no surprise to me though it was to both TIM and I suspect Miranda. She finally had a true choice to make and she decided that someone who had 'earnt' her trust rather than buying it was making the correct choice in the matter of the Base.
This does mean though that for that to be shown in game you needed to run with her in your squad quite a bit and follow the paragon path. For those who used other squadmembers and/or were renegade it may be more of a shock turnabout. So it can be easily seen that in your game its a shock because of the path you went while in my game its not because of the path I followed.
What did TIM do to piss Miranda off?
Débuté par
lltoon
, févr. 20 2010 06:13
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#77
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:25
Taritu
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It struck me as a bit odd only because Miranda's sister is held hostage by Cerberus. The first piece of DLC, if it occurs after the collector base, should include a mission to save her from Cerberus's revenge.
#78
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:37
huntrrz
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I played through with Miranda in the endgame to see that scene, but I will never use her on the last leg again for precisely that reason - she can continue to 'play nice' with TIM while being loyal to 'me'. That keeps her and her sister safe.Forwen wrote...
There's a spanner in the works, and that's the fact that Cerberus can blow her sister's cover at any moment they damn please.
Even if she doesn't agree with keeping the base, going rogue openly effectively makes her sister Tim's hostage. If she's such a good agent, she'd somehow fake (or at least try to) obedience until the point when she can remove her sister from Cerberus' reach, not be all defiant.
#79
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:38
RighteousRage
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lltoon wrote...
I find that it's a real sudden change of Miranda's attitude towards TIM and her essentially telling him to f*ck off when he offers a way to have the base taken intact.
I really don't remember TIM specifically screwing Miranda over during any part of the storyline and she always spoken so very highly of TIM when you talk to her in her office. She trusts TIM and TIM trusts her, to the point that Miranda is one of the few Cerberus operatives to actually meet and talk to TIM in the flesh.
So why does Miranda suddenly hate him? I just don't get it.
Same goes for the staff of the Normandy too, why defect from TIM?
Sure they thank Shepard, but like Miranda said, the whole operation is still a Cerberus operation and Shepard is a product of Cerberus.
What about EDI? She's been transmitting info to TIM the whole time during the final mission. Then she suddenly decides to defect?
It probably has to do with Shepard being a better influence and being more a manly man in general (even if it's a woman), and after being sent into certain-death situations time after time I think Miranda got tired of it.
#80
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:45
shinobi602
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Taritu wrote...
It struck me as a bit odd only because Miranda's sister is held hostage by Cerberus. The first piece of DLC, if it occurs after the collector base, should include a mission to save her from Cerberus's revenge.
Orianna's not held hostage by Cerberus......
#81
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:45
Sesshomaru47
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The Angry One wrote...
Srau wrote...
Nothing i guess.
She is just starting to think Shepard's way to behave is better.
Much like Ashley/Kaidan says when they meet up : "you are in front of a god", and TiM is far from being one.
Kaidan says legend not god.
And promptly tell Shepard to screw off.
It started out so well....then went downhill so quickly.
Can you make Miranda renegade? She might thinks it's the most awsomess idea since sliced bread. Garrus so far is the only who thought I should keep it, but he always was a little nuts..
#82
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:46
Weskerr
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Druss99 wrote...
He left the toilet seat up. Repeatedly.
No, he left the toilet seat down. Moron. It's in the codex.
#83
Posté 20 février 2010 - 09:55
huntrrz
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Effectively, she is. They're keeping her father at bay - if they wanted to twist the knife, all they have to do is pass information to him on where to find Oriana. They also know where she and her family live, so they can threaten to/perform violence anytime they want.shinobi602 wrote...
Orianna's not held hostage by Cerberus......
#84
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:20
Taritu
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shinobi602 wrote...
Taritu wrote...
It struck me as a bit odd only because Miranda's sister is held hostage by Cerberus. The first piece of DLC, if it occurs after the collector base, should include a mission to save her from Cerberus's revenge.
Orianna's not held hostage by Cerberus......
Cerberus arranged her landing spot and her new life with her family. They know exactly where she is. If you think that TIm isn't the sort of guy to use that sort of leverage against a lackey who gave him the finger, well, you have a totally different read on his character than I do.
#85
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:35
Fromyou
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when he betrayed you guys when you went to the *Turian* aid from the collectors
#86
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:36
Vaenier
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The end scene with the collector base is so forced, it completely messes up all the characters. suddenly, everybody contradicts themselves and say its an evil base, no matter what has happened in the story.
#87
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:38
Madecologist
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How so... a base that sludges people to make Baby Reapers. Name me one character in your Squad that would think this place is swell.
#88
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:45
Blind Lark
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I think perhaps she had the idea in mind that TIM might actually sacrifice humans to create a human reaper anyways to obtain universal dominance. That's the reason for keeping the base that I saw in TIM.
Modifié par Blind Lark, 20 février 2010 - 10:46 .
#89
Posté 20 février 2010 - 10:56
Ocelot83
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Taritu wrote...
Cerberus arranged her landing spot and her new life with her family. They know exactly where she is. If you think that TIm isn't the sort of guy to use that sort of leverage against a lackey who gave him the finger, well, you have a totally different read on his character than I do.
Cerberus doesn't know where Mirandas sister is. Read the mission report, "they have been located RECORD DELETED...."
#90
Posté 20 février 2010 - 11:36
huntrrz
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That only means it was redacted from the transmitted report (which makes perfect sense). Even if they officially purged all their records as a show of good faith to Miranda, it's not as if they couldn't reconstruct the family's destination from travel records if the mood struck. And (if I recall) Oriana's mother was given a position in a Cerebus front company to justify the move and supply the family with enough income for a comfortable lifestyle.Ocelot83 wrote...
Cerberus doesn't know where Mirandas sister is. Read the mission report, "they have been located RECORD DELETED...."
#91
Posté 20 février 2010 - 11:47
Terraneaux
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Madecologist wrote...
How so... a base that sludges people to make Baby Reapers. Name me one character in your Squad that would think this place is swell.
Yeah, terrible things happened there, but that's no reason to destroy the base. It's time to start looting.
#92
Posté 20 février 2010 - 11:51
Series5Ranger
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Srslydude01 wrote...
Cutlass Jack wrote...
As for EDI she considered herself part of the crew of the Normandy. Not TIM's agent. Once the blocks were removed she was free to make her own choices.
So there is no way TIM can just press the button that enacts EDI's unknown programming after that point in time?
No the Blocks on her programming were the ones Joker released on what I like to call the EDI Loyalty mission.
#93
Posté 20 février 2010 - 11:54
The Angry One
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Madecologist wrote...
How so... a base that sludges people to make Baby Reapers. Name me one character in your Squad that would think this place is swell.
Well, Legion muses that the human-Reaper represents the kind of unified being the Geth aspire to.
Though later says that organics obtaining this technology would be a tremendously bad idea as it'd limit their true potential.
#94
Posté 20 février 2010 - 11:58
Pocketgb
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yfhfrg wrote...
lltoon wrote...
yfhfrg wrote...
I got the impression that Miranda had never really been asked to do any of the 'dark' stuff that Cerberus does. So this was probably the first time she had been ordered do something like this.
But from her point of view 'studying' the collector base would be no different than the project 'studying' biotic children. She always had some explanation for the actions of Cerberus. Why the sudden change of heart? Especially in her eyes, she hasn't seen a Cerberus project that was unethical. It was always some inside traitor or some sabotage.
Like you said, she thinks the 'dark side' of Cerberus is all explained by people going 'rogue'. But this order comes straight from TIM, who she seems to have thought didn't know much of anything about what was really happening in the facility where Jack was being studied. I think she was loyal to TIM first and foremost and her loyalty to Cerberus all stemmed from that.
This. You even get an e-mail from TIM after doing Jack's mission stating that he didn't agree with what happened either. The moment she goes against him is quite an awesome moment in the game, showing not only more depth to an already great character but showing just how inspiring Shepard can be.
