85 réponses à ce sujet

[Terraneaux]

I just don't get it.  Studying their technology is important.  The human smoothie machine is turned off.  It seems a bit of a false renegade/paragon choice; the game seems to imply the collector base is somehow inherently evil. 

[The Angry One]

Keeping it wouldn't be so bad if the only choice wasn't handing it to Cerberus.

That's bad.

[Talogrungi]

Keeping the base might be considered a moral grey area. It's tricky, as Reaper indoctrination is a well document risk .. but the tech could help save the galaxy .. so it's potentially worth it.

Unfortunately, the option we get is to save the base AND hand it to Cerberus.

Terrorists with ubertech = bad.

[Terraneaux]

The Angry One wrote...

Keeping it wouldn't be so bad if the only choice wasn't handing it to Cerberus.
That's bad.

Why is that necessarily the case?  It seems really forced.  I'm not asking you to answer the question, obviously, you didn't develop the game, it just makes me grit my teeth in frustration.

[The Angry One]

Terraneaux wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Keeping it wouldn't be so bad if the only choice wasn't handing it to Cerberus.
That's bad.

Why is that necessarily the case?  It seems really forced.  I'm not asking you to answer the question, obviously, you didn't develop the game, it just makes me grit my teeth in frustration.

BioWare enjoy false dilemmas - there's a similar one in Dragon Age, where an important piece of technology is at stake and you're given black and white options, neither of which are particularily satisfying.

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 février 2010 - 08:36 .

[Vaenier]

The base is a valuable asset, no matter who owns it. plus you can always just blow it up later when you get bored.

[Talogrungi]

<-- Would also have liked the "Gift wrap station and give to Anderson" option.

[Thargorichiban]

Nothing bad about it at all. All hail our once and future king... TIM!

[The Angry One]

Yeah there should be an option to preserve the station then when TIM is all happy, you call in the Alliance 5th Fleet that plows through the Cerberus ships and takes over.
Epilogue shows the Normandy SR-2 in proper Alliance colours!

Modifié par The Angry One, 20 février 2010 - 08:39 .

[MKATAKM]

I just don't trust TIM. So I destroyed the base while playing paragon, and handed it to TIM while renegade.

[Terraneaux]

The Angry One wrote...

Yeah there should be an option to preserve the station then when TIM is all happy, you call in the Alliance 5th Fleet that plows through the Cerberus ships and takes over.
Epilogue shows the Normandy SR-2 in proper Alliance colours!

That would be pretty sweet.  

[anmiro]

The Normandy represents the only thing Cerberus has done right. Most of the crew on bored are ignorant to what their employers are capable of and what they have done in the past. TIM is an intelligent guy which is why he recognizes the threat the Reapers pose. But just because he has decided to put his sadistic little experiments on hold until they have been dealt with does not make him a good person. And does not excuse him of his past crimes. Cerberus is nothing more than the enemy of my enemy. And while the Reaper Technology may have proven useful, it would be irresponsible to hand such dangerous technology over to someone like TIM. I think they make it pretty clear that he wants the technology more for securing humanity's dominance than for fighting the Reapers. I'm all for the advancement of humanity, but the last I checked we weren't doing that bad. We have a Spectre and Councilor on the Citadel.

[Internet Kraken]

I think it's bad because it is Reaper tech. Reaper technology almost always leads to horrible consequences for the user. Even if nothing did go wrong with the Collector base, it's just to easy to abuse the power it has. Keeping the Collector base may not be an inherently evil decision, but it is far to easy for it to turn into one.

[Internet Kraken]

I think it's bad because it is Reaper tech. Reaper technology almost always leads to horrible consequences for the user. Even if nothing did go wrong with the Collector base, it's just to easy to abuse the power it has. Keeping the Collector base may not be an inherently evil decision, but it is far to easy for it to turn into one.

[JMA22TB]

Yeah the strings attached to keeping it means, however you try to justify it to anyone else, you're jumping into bed with Cerberus. Even if you could convince TIM to work with everyone on this, the Reaper tech we've seen:

- Massive population sacrifice if you want to build a Reaper

- Cybernetic implantation that replaces organic functions.

- Indoctrination, which is basically slavery

- Bioweapons, which are strictly forbidden on the Citadel



You're looking at a total defiance of whatever the Council and galactic law aspires to, in order to get the job done.



Even if you used this to defeat the Reapers it's not like TIM or someone wanting to push their agenda is just going to pass up that kind of power.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

[punkioinapit713]

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[BattleVisor]

''Retribution is set in the universe fans know well from the video game and novel series—one in which humanity has explored the very farthest reaches of the universe, only to discover the ruthless Reapers, a race bent on extinguishing all organic life. One man is bent on discovering the Reapers' secrets, the mysterious Illusive Man, the leader of a pro-human, black ops group, Cerberus. And he's devised the perfect plan: implant a human subject with Reaper technology in order to study the enemy.



He also has the perfect test subject—Paul Grayson, an ex-Cerberus operative. Grayson betrayed Cerberus in order to save his daughter. So when Grayson is kidnapped and made the subject of Cerberus' evil experiments, the Illusive Man will finally have his revenge...''

[anmiro]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

Don't confuse Kelly's perception of Cerberus for what it really is. The crew of the Normandy are good people, but as Engineer Donnelly points out he doesn't know much about them. 

And if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor of Akuze, Cerberus is responsible for the death of your entire unit. It would make absolutely no sense for Shepard to trust them with a weapon like this. 

Modifié par anmiro, 20 février 2010 - 09:10 .

[Talogrungi]

anmiro wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

Don't confuse Kelly's perception of Cerberus for what it really is. The crew of the Normandy are good people, but as Engineer Donnelly points out he doesn't know much about them. 

And if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor of Akuze, Cerberus is responsible for the death of your entire unit. It would make absolutely no sense for Shepard to trust them with a weapon like this. 

Let's not forget poor Rear Admiral Kohaku!

[The Capital Gaultier]

anmiro wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

Don't confuse Kelly's perception of Cerberus for what it really is. The crew of the Normandy are good people, but as Engineer Donnelly points out he doesn't know much about them. 

And if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor of Akuze, Cerberus is responsible for the death of your entire unit. It would make absolutely no sense for Shepard to trust them with a weapon like this. 

Why not?  TIM is not idealistic, and he makes no bones about it.  However, he is the most level-headed, rational person in the ME universe so far.  You can predict exactly what he's going to do with it to some degree of certainty.

[Azint]

Well the technology does involve harvesting people and liquefying them, so...

[TheTrac3r]

Also, if you save the base (whether you die or not...in fact ESPECIALLY if you die doing it), the Illusive man has this.... tone to him? This little shimmer in his robot eyes? I don't know how to put it. Like you can TELL, by how he talks, he is more interested in humanity's dominance in the "and beyond" category. People say the Base is a means to the end of the Reaper war.



BUT, the war with the reapers is alao a means to an end, the end being humanity controlling the universe. That's what TIM really wants.



So, in essence, Shepard is playing a huge chessgame. He moves some pieces along, but doesn't let them cross the entire board. You help Cerberus beat the Collectors and buy time, but you prevent them from achieving ultimate power.

[Internet Kraken]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

anmiro wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

Don't confuse Kelly's perception of Cerberus for what it really is. The crew of the Normandy are good people, but as Engineer Donnelly points out he doesn't know much about them. 

And if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor of Akuze, Cerberus is responsible for the death of your entire unit. It would make absolutely no sense for Shepard to trust them with a weapon like this. 

Why not?  TIM is not idealistic, and he makes no bones about it.  However, he is the most level-headed, rational person in the ME universe so far.  You can predict exactly what he's going to do with it to some degree of certainty.

I disagree. TIM is idealistic. Believeing that he can master the dangerous Reaper technology is very idealistic.

[The Capital Gaultier]

Internet Kraken wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

anmiro wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

Cerberus is a pro-human organization. It's not a bad choice (way overblown on here), it's just a very human-centrist choice.

Don't confuse Kelly's perception of Cerberus for what it really is. The crew of the Normandy are good people, but as Engineer Donnelly points out he doesn't know much about them. 

And if your Shepard is a Sole Survivor of Akuze, Cerberus is responsible for the death of your entire unit. It would make absolutely no sense for Shepard to trust them with a weapon like this. 

Why not?  TIM is not idealistic, and he makes no bones about it.  However, he is the most level-headed, rational person in the ME universe so far.  You can predict exactly what he's going to do with it to some degree of certainty.

I disagree. TIM is idealistic. Believeing that he can master the dangerous Reaper technology is very idealistic.

TIM never says that this technology will put humanity on top and ensure that humanity can stop the Reapers.  Instead, he specifically says that the technology has the potential to do those things.  If you want to deny him the chance, don't do it on the basis of him being illogical.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 20 février 2010 - 09:17 .