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[Talogrungi]

Trenrade wrote...

Grayson betrayed Cerberus in order to save his daughter. So when Grayson is kidnapped and made the subject of Cerberus' evil experiments, the Illusive Man will finally have his revenge

If we ever needed confirmation that TIM is an evil SOB, here we have it.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

Great, more game lore you get confused about when ME:3 is released. Its bad enough Liaras attitude is explained away in a bloody comic, where a good portion of the layers are unlikely to read it.



Anyway, just makes me even more certain you'll end up a Reaper in ME:3. In fact, god knows WHAT TIM had put into your body or where he got the tech for resurrecting you. That being said I still say we save the base.



Story wise, it also seems to offer so much meat to chew on next game.

[dinin70]

Bah for me it's quite simple.



Uberweapons (even like the A-Bomb) should simply not exist. A-bomb and reaper base are maybe tech jewels, but still, the meaning of those "things" is to kill people, so no worth keeping it. In those cases "Good hands" do not exist: U.S. killing hundreds of thousands civilians in horrible conditions of a nation that was already loosing the war. Is it a good thing? Nope, A bomb was just made to massively kill people with one drop. That base is the same, just blow it!!

[Durka531]

Its strange that no one has mentioned that the reason the reapers have been able to put the boot to the previous species is because they have followed "reaper" tech, Sovereign/Nazara mentions this when you talk to it in ME1. basically the mass relays, the citadel and god knows what other tech is based on what the reapers want us to know. That's why i decided to blow the station, well that and TIM ticked me off when he sent me to the "disabled" collector ship 

[Vlainstrike]

Delta Green wrote...

I think it's extremely short sighted and naive to destroy the collector base, especially when the fate of galactic life hinges on important choices like so. A gigantic reaper armada is on its way, a SINGLE reaper with a few geth escorts destroyed the citadel fleet. A fully shielded Reaper cannot be penetrated by DREADNOUGHTS, their shields allow them to plow through enemy cruisers with near impunity and they have powerful almost laser like weapons that can slice cruisers like they were butter. Every advantage must be taken in the war against the reapers.

It is true that all our progress occured because of the mass relays, tech that the reapers purposefully left us but it is also true they never intended for their thranx cannon, algorithms and IFFs to be tampered with, which shows that they have not prepared adequate defense for all their technologies.

The collector base could yield distinct advantages we could field against the upcoming reaper onslaught, the risks are extremely great but as of this point we don't have much else to go on. TIM is quite obviously out for human interests but he'll come along for the ride if only just to defeat the reapers, anything else after that we'll just have to deal with.

^ this ^

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

It's a manufacturing facility for Reapers.  Somewhere along the line, that baby Reaper's gonna acquire the weapons, shields, indoctrination systems and so on that the Reapers so far have had.  Maybe even a couple upgrades.

and ^ this ^ /thread imo

That base may be a horrifying symbol, but it is much more than a human smoothie machine.  I see alot of posts that seem to follow huntrzz logic that, "There's not a chance in hell I'd give TIM that much power unless the survival of the entire race literally hinged on it."

Well HELLOOO!... that's exactly the situation we've got here - that's the core dilemma of the whole freakin game trilogy.  The survival of the human race DOES hinge on our ability to develop the tech necessary to defeat the reapers, which up to this point has already included using their own tech (Thanix Cannon, EDI's algorithms, Mass Relays, & Citadel) against them. 

I don't like it either, but Cerberus is the only [known] outfit in the entire galaxy taking the reaper threat seriously.  I played a paragon-centric Shepard in my first playthrough, but still gave Cerberus the base for that very reason.  And tbh I was a little ticked off that not one member of my crew supported the decision afterwards - not even Miranda ffs! 

I'm off on a tangent now, but that chick spent like the entire game defending Cerberus' most heinous actions only to backpedal when you finally make a move to support her viewpoint?  I kept thinking, Et tu, Miranda? Well screw her... (shed single tear)

Anyway, to sum up, the fate of humanity... nay, the fate of all species in the known galaxy, does in fact hinge on our ability to face off against the Reapers, so if Cerberus is the only act in town willing to face up to that, then they deserve/need every conceivable advantage we can avail them.

So, if that means co-opting the human smoothie machine, well... 'Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!', and all that jazz... we can deal with Cerberus later (in ME4 perhaps? ).

P.S. Brainfreeze is an oft accepted consequence to a good smoothie. (Awww, he went there..... too far man! too far!)

P.P.S. It's people! Soylent Green is made out of people... Listen to me Hatcher, you gotta tell em... Soylent Green is people!!!!!!!!

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 21 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[UnAffectedFiddle]

After replaying the game and getting to thederelict Reaper, EDI explains a Reapers shields make it immune to even Dreadnaught firepower (if memory serves). And its not the human race, its every living race in the Milky Way. We are talking TRILLIONS of lives.



Humanity playing Empire for a few years is sadly, still a better option. Sure it could be put to nefarious deeds, but it could also be put to virtuous needs. Tell me, how many people destroying the base would suddenly remove the Genophage if given the chance based simply on the principle it was wrong? The point of all life is to survive, survival of the fittest is often unpleasant.

[sedrikhcain]

Terraneaux wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Keeping it wouldn't be so bad if the only choice wasn't handing it to Cerberus.
That's bad.

Why is that necessarily the case?  It seems really forced.  I'm not asking you to answer the question, obviously, you didn't develop the game, it just makes me grit my teeth in frustration.

The choices in Mass Effect aren't good/evil, they are paragon/renegade, ie, play by "the rules" or do what seems pragmatic, rules be damned. No matter which path you choose to guide your actions, your objective is to save the galaxy for organic life, the moral choices are about how you achieve that end. Saving the base and turning it over to Cerberus is a renegade option because, while it could help you unlock the secrets of Reaper tech, it's dangerous. To wit: a) you don't understand the tech, so you put lives at risk by taking it on and you're giving the tech to Cerberus, an organization known to be brutally pragmatic and uncaring towards any interest other than humanity's, to the point of offering its own operatives and even whole colonies up on a platter to hostile forces if TIM deems there is even a chance that doing so could give humanity an edge in the long run. Handing over the base is also morally tainted because it lacks compassion -- you're preserving something that was the cause of the deaths of millions of humans on the off chance you may be able to figure it out, nevermind the fact there's no certainty of that and, worst-case it could become an instrument of our destruction. That's necessarily wrong, it's just cold-hearted, and risky, although TIM's confidence in himself and organisation make him see it as pragmatic.

On the other hand, destroying it leaves no chance that TIM will abuse whatever he finds there, eliminates the chance of it indoctrinating anyone else and shows compassion to the families of the lost. It's the cafe, cautious and "sensitive" thing to do, if you will.

[varel1]

For me the choice was easy, as the derelict reaper ship had already corrupted Dr. Chandana's team, there was no way I was going to give the base the opportunity to, (further?), corrupt Cerberus.



Therefore the base had to be destroyed, the risk outweighed the potential gain.

[The Capital Gaultier]

varel1 wrote...

For me the choice was easy, as the derelict reaper ship had already corrupted Dr. Chandana's team, there was no way I was going to give the base the opportunity to, (further?), corrupt Cerberus.

Therefore the base had to be destroyed, the risk outweighed the potential gain.

I'm trying to picture the balance that you imagine, but I'm having trouble.

On one side of the scale, you have the lives of Cerberus scientists who know the risks of working around indoctrination technology.  On the other, you have the possibility of unlocking technology that could tip the tide against a galaxy-killing race.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to cut down your opinion.  It's just that the way I see it, keeping the Reaper manufactory alive is the "safe" choice.  Care to expand?

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 21 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[Moorpheusl9]

There's other options besides the base for the survival of the galaxy - Rachni alliance, Geth alliance, Krogan cured + Krogan fleet.



Include that in our equations against the reapers and we have a better chance than TIM *possibly* doing the galaxy a favour.

[varel1]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

varel1 wrote...

For me the choice was easy, as the derelict reaper ship had already corrupted Dr. Chandana's team, there was no way I was going to give the base the opportunity to, (further?), corrupt Cerberus.

Therefore the base had to be destroyed, the risk outweighed the potential gain.

I'm trying to picture the balance that you imagine, but I'm having trouble.

On one side of the scale, you have the lives of Cerberus scientists who know the risks of working around indoctrination technology.  On the other, you have the possibility of unlocking technology that could tip the tide against a galaxy-killing race.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to cut down your opinion.  It's just that the way I see it, keeping the Reaper manufactory alive is the "safe" choice.  Care to expand?

It is not so much the lives of the Cerberus personnel, more containing the indoctrination. Tne probability/possibility that the base would contain nasty unidentifiable viruses, that are far in advance of  Cerberus technology, and therefore would not be recognised until too late, was my main fear.

The reaper/collector indoctrination could be more subtle than that of the derelict ship, and not physically manifest itself.. It could spread like a virus through the galaxy, before it could be contained.

I realise there are a lot of "coulds" in my scenario, but that is the essence of "risk assessment", and for me the risk outweighed the potential benefits.