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Dragon Age: Awakening (Mac)?


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#76
rsongy

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jsachun wrote...

All it takes is AMD to make better CPU than Intel, and I wouldn't be suprised if MS dumped intel all together to go to a true 64bit windows platform for all Consumer market PCs. Whick makes similar coding for Intel Cpus for all OSs irrelevant.

As for choice of Apple vs Microsoft.

If you want to be the first to get your hands on brand spanking new tech use MS.

if you don't mind waiting years for that tech to become redundant because it can't be developed any further software wise because its perfect, use Mac.


Choose your poison. For musicians, you can either choose a computer that'll crash while you're playing intense synthesizers at a live concert, but is mega cool for gaming, or you can get a Mac. For media producers and managers, you can choose a computer that doesn't run the top of the line production software, but runs video games pretty well, or you can get a Mac. For photographers, filmmakers, and composers, you can buy a computer that requires multiple programs in order to achieve the desired goal, but will run any game, or you can get a Mac. I mean, basically anything worthwhile and creative you need a Mac for; its a good investment. So why should Mac users suffer for purchasing superior equipment? Mac users like video games too. It just so happens that we have other things, worthwhile, that we enjoy doing also. Plus, I mean, just look at how beautiful those iMacs and Macbook Pros are, *whistles.

#77
jsachun

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rsongy wrote...

jsachun wrote...

All it takes is AMD to make better CPU than Intel, and I wouldn't be suprised if MS dumped intel all together to go to a true 64bit windows platform for all Consumer market PCs. Whick makes similar coding for Intel Cpus for all OSs irrelevant.

As for choice of Apple vs Microsoft.

If you want to be the first to get your hands on brand spanking new tech use MS.

if you don't mind waiting years for that tech to become redundant because it can't be developed any further software wise because its perfect, use Mac.


Choose your poison. For musicians, you can either choose a computer that'll crash while you're playing intense synthesizers at a live concert, but is mega cool for gaming, or you can get a Mac. For media producers and managers, you can choose a computer that doesn't run the top of the line production software, but runs video games pretty well, or you can get a Mac. For photographers, filmmakers, and composers, you can buy a computer that requires multiple programs in order to achieve the desired goal, but will run any game, or you can get a Mac. I mean, basically anything worthwhile and creative you need a Mac for; its a good investment. So why should Mac users suffer for purchasing superior equipment? Mac users like video games too. It just so happens that we have other things, worthwhile, that we enjoy doing also. Plus, I mean, just look at how beautiful those iMacs and Macbook Pros are, *whistles.

You sound a like girl too me, besides if you spend just as much money on a pc as you do on those wimpy liitle computers you wouldn't have the problem in the first place. As they say their all made in the same place and it all just boils down to whether you want MS OS or Apple OS.

And as far as I understand all live concerts and live production line at top end is purley hardware and has no software interface. Have you been to one lately or are you just swallowing what the marketing team are throwing down at you?

And I bet DA:O was not created in Apple.

Modifié par jsachun, 25 avril 2010 - 08:24 .


#78
CybAnt1

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Let's see ... obligatory request for Linux port to mock request for Mac port, check; usual Mac vs. PC flamewar, check; usual "Macs are not as good for games" BS, check.

This thread's on schedule.

How about a nice PS3's rock, Xbox's suxxor thread, or vice versa, for spice.

Modifié par CybAnt1, 25 avril 2010 - 12:43 .


#79
Cyberpawz

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jsachun wrote...

All it takes is AMD to make better CPU than Intel, and I wouldn't be suprised if MS dumped intel all together to go to a true 64bit windows platform for all Consumer market PCs. Whick makes similar coding for Intel Cpus for all OSs irrelevant.

As for choice of Apple vs Microsoft.

If you want to be the first to get your hands on brand spanking new tech use MS.

if you don't mind waiting years for that tech to become redundant because it can't be developed any further software wise because its perfect, use Mac.


Let me take you down a few notches here, since I've probably been in the IT field probably longer than you've been able to stand.

AMD is a kin in many way to Apple, it is a company that is a niche market. They are primarily designed for people who play with linux and are system creators. (building their own PC from scratch) AMD has a smaller foot when it come to power usage in some of their chips, but the processing power still is Intel.

MS going to AMD only would be shooting themselves in the foot, since 90% of all computer manufacturers utilize Intel.

As for choice of Apple vs MS, please...you are using boilerplate responses...

First off, If you want to use the latest tech, use Linux... MS is a poor operating system that still utilizes code from Windows 1.0. It is large, bloated, and a processor as well as a memory hog. In MS (Since I know people who work there I can say this) no one department knows all the code. The code of the software is broken into several sections, and then in put back together in a wrapper, which we call a GUI.

MS is the only company that can come up with an OS that is buggier than its predecessor and still be bought by the clueless masses that can't figure out why their old computer, or tech won't work with MS's latest OS. It is one of the largest reasons why IT personnel skipped Vista for a mass rollout, and was waiting for the newest OS to show it's head.  As it stands now MS's new OS is looking good as an Alpha standpoint, but it is far from being ready for mass production or distribution.

Apple is only a bit better because it utilizes a Unix kernel, but the GUI and all the bells and whistles do slow the machine down. Although it doesn't do it as much as the PC using Windows does. Apple's computers can utilize the latest OS on a slower machine and still run effectively, yet on the PC if you use the minimum requirement you may be able to run windows without it crashing…

Apple did make a mistake in utilizing Carbon at first as its primary computer language to make it so that PPC and Intel people could use the same software. Now that we are at a point where the OS is pure Intel only, it should be removed, and C++ and C# should be allowed with very few issues.

Apple was smart though in a way to create a free software programing computer for the masses that will allow it to code for PC and Mac nearly flawlessly, it allows development and production of software. The problem is that MS has their hooks into nearly everything so without one part of the MS trifecta you can't run games designed on other system.

The MS trifecta is as thus.

Point 1. The OS.
Point 2. MSSQL
Point 3. DirectX

Without those three things you can't run a lot of the games that are required for Windows on Mac.

I have seen though many Mac games out there that when they came out for the Mac from a PC port they run smoother, faster in many cases, except games from Bioware, and I think we all know why that is, and we also see the ability to communicate cross platform so Mac vs PC users are abundant.  The problem is that companies sometimes takes their time coming out with anything but Windows, as people have said here due to market share, but your excuse for if you want the latest and greatest games out there buy a PC really doesn't hold water.  It is the laziness or greed, or both of the developers to come out with a software program the same time that causes this to happen.

As for your little pot shot which really made no sense about buying a Mac because it makes perfect everything… what's your point? The Apple Standard is a good one, it means that if it works on a Mac it works well. Apple doesn't play around with drivers that may make it work, or might make it somewhat compatible, or somewhat stable. Apple has always had an understanding with its end users, it will work or it won't, end of story.

I use to work for CompUSA as a phone tech support, and I had to help people find drivers for their PC crap that came along from the store because they thought they were getting great discounts on their products only to find their drivers weren't supported by MS and they were required to D/L the latest drivers off of a site in where english wasn't even present. Do you know how annoying that was?

With Apple, if the drivers don't work you go to the companies site which is almost always in English and find the drivers. There are third party sites out there that people attempt to get software working that aren't in English, yes I know that, but in many cases the Apple way of things makes it easier for the end user to use their computer instead of having to have them go to websites in which they can't read or even know if they are at the site of the company or not, and know if they are downloading an official driver or not.

With Apple if it has an apple logo on the software, or hardware it will work with your Mac as long as you fall within the requirements… you can't always say the same thing with the PC.

One final thing about your programming knowledge, if MS went to AMD only the programming would still be the same, just for an individual processor. The one thing you fail to grasp is the Endian aspect. Memory utilidge is king in OS's.  Apple prefers their software to be programmed to utilize the Endian one way, while MS is dual… they don't care, which is one of the reason why they are famous for the BSOD. The reason for this is when a program attempts to grab for the same piece of memory because it is doing a reverse Endian memory usage than the OS does, it crashes because neither system can utilize the same system memory at the same time. This causes crashes.

Apple suggests to its developers to make it work a specific way to keep this from happening.

Now you may say that this doesn't happen a lot, and you are right unless you have a program that is a memory hog. The reason for that is because Gigabytes of memory will allow this to happen less and less due to the allocation of memory to a program.

Also, Apple's OS is smart, when a program opens it partitions in a safe way memory for that program to use. No other program can use memory that has been allocated for program X. Microsoft has yet to successfully do it.

So in response, if you want a PC go for it, if you want a Mac go for it, it is personal opinion.  I prefer Mac and Linux over Windows and time of the day… for any other reason minus games is security… but that is for another post.

#80
Cyberpawz

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CybAnt1 wrote...

Let's see ... obligatory request for Linux port to mock request for Mac port, check; usual Mac vs. PC flamewar, check; usual "Macs are not as good for games" BS, check.

This thread's on schedule.

How about a nice PS3's rock, Xbox's suxxor thread, or vice versa, for spice.


Works for me... but I think I may of taken care of that.

#81
jsachun

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Okay, so you have worked in the IT market. Then you should be the first one to point out that Linux is just like Apple interms of Hardware & Software support. They have such an inefficient GUI called the Windows X from Unix that you'd be last person to be able to get any new staff to work. Yeah sure they'll be able to support it, if they can get it to work under "DOS" mode.

Cyberpawz wrote...
First off, If you want to use the latest tech, use Linux... MS is a poor operating system that still utilizes code from Windows 1.0. It is large, bloated, and a processor as well as a memory hog. In MS (Since I know people who work there I can say this) no one department knows all the code. The code of the software is broken into several sections, and then in put back together in a wrapper, which we call a GUI.


I don't believe they even support the latest computer or mobos. Once again points to the inefficient GUI called Windows X from Unix. Configure this configure that and maybe it will work, but no wait It can't give you all the functionality of the hardware, because the vendors won't write a driver for it. And why, cause it's not worth their while.

Is this the reason why SUSE Linux decide to partner Microsoft and are trying to use a Graphical System called the XGL in their KDE environment. Hmmm I wonder when UNIX became the most redundant GUI when now the server operating systems are looking at using something else over theirs.

And besides this, when did Linux ever support third party Apps besides all the junk they put in their OS anyway.

Cyberpawz wrote...
One final thing about your programming knowledge, if MS went to AMD only the programming would still be the same, just for an individual processor. The one thing you fail to grasp is the Endian aspect. Memory utilidge is king in OS's.  Apple prefers their software to be programmed to utilize the Endian one way, while MS is dual… they don't care, which is one of the reason why they are famous for the BSOD. The reason for this is when a program attempts to grab for the same piece of memory because it is doing a reverse Endian memory usage than the OS does, it crashes because neither system can utilize the same system memory at the same time. This causes crashes. 


This statement above is the most blatant thing I've ever heard in my life. If you knew Linux, you'd know what it takes for OS's to run on different cpus. And if you've been following IT new recently, you'd actually find that AMD & Microsoft are working exclusively together.  Besides I haven't had a BSOD since I've been using Retail version of their OS. And yes it's quite funny how the computer manufacterers modify windows to suit thier purpose and always point the fingers at Microsoft when sometihing they have done causes harm to how windows should work. 

Cyberpawz wrote...
I have seen though many Mac games out there that when they came out for the Mac from a PC port they run smoother, faster in many cases, except games from Bioware, and I think we all know why that is, and we also see the ability to communicate cross platform so Mac vs PC users are abundant.  The problem is that companies sometimes takes their time coming out with anything but Windows, as people have said here due to market share, but your excuse for if you want the latest and greatest games out there buy a PC really doesn't hold water.  It is the laziness or greed, or both of the developers to come out with a software program the same time that causes this to happen.


By the time this happens I think most games run smoothly on widows too if not before as they would've patched it at least 5 times & as well as the drivers for what ever multimedia device it was using. So what is the incentive to switch over to Apple? 


  

Modifié par jsachun, 25 avril 2010 - 04:35 .


#82
Dlokir

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CybAnt1 wrote...
Windows 3.1 is not entirely a new operating system, it is a graphical interface that is "built over" MS-DOS. This type of operating system is referred to as a DOS "Shell" utility. **Windows 3.1 translates a user's point-and-click instructions into DOS commands for DOS to execute**. Any request that is entered through the Windows 3.1 graphical user interface shell will inevitably be performed by the MS-DOS operating system.

** Windows 95 doesn't. That's the difference.

Whatever. It's hair splitting. But I used it myself, too, and I know what it was.

Deny the huge step that was Windows 3.1 (or probably 3.0) is weird. As a user you don't care much of what's behind the windows. In term of layer it's clear that technically Windows 95 made a huge
technical shift by giving up DOS as a base layout. But it's weird to throw Windows 3.1 in same bag than DOS or Windows 1 crap.

Some correction in your wrong technical quotes:
  • You had no need to type each time win to start windows and could just
    add it at end of autoexec.bat.
  • Your quote is totally wrong, DOS was totally unware of most windows API related to grahical interface, that's a huge pool making rather wrong your technical quote. One example among other in case you try deny it, a selection in a combo box, moving a window, and ton more. I think you are making a confusion with BIOS and DOS, or the arcticle you quote does the confusion.

Modifié par Dlokir, 25 avril 2010 - 04:39 .


#83
Cyberpawz

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Sorry I have taken time to respond here I have been fighting to keep my job.

jsachun wrote...

Okay, so you have worked in the IT market. Then you should be the first one to point out that Linux is just like Apple interms of Hardware & Software support. They have such an inefficient GUI called the Windows X from Unix that you'd be last person to be able to get any new staff to work. Yeah sure they'll be able to support it, if they can get it to work under "DOS" mode.


You mean X Windows? X11 is a network GUI, it is the cornerstone of KISS… Keep it Simple Stupid...  Windows X isn't even a MS product...

jsachun wrote...

Cyberpawz wrote...
First off, If you want to use the latest tech, use Linux... MS is a poor operating system that still utilizes code from Windows 1.0. It is large, bloated, and a processor as well as a memory hog. In MS (Since I know people who work there I can say this) no one department knows all the code. The code of the software is broken into several sections, and then in put back together in a wrapper, which we call a GUI.


I don't believe they even support the latest computer or mobos. Once again points to the inefficient GUI called Windows X from Unix. Configure this configure that and maybe it will work, but no wait It can't give you all the functionality of the hardware, because the vendors won't write a driver for it. And why, cause it's not worth their while.


Who is they? Again Windows X is not a Unix or Microsoft Program, and X11 or X Windows is a network system, please get your facts straight.

jsachun wrote...
Is this the reason why SUSE Linux decide to partner Microsoft and are trying to use a Graphical System called the XGL in their KDE environment. Hmmm I wonder when UNIX became the most redundant GUI when now the server operating systems are looking at using something else over theirs.

And besides this, when did Linux ever support third party Apps besides all the junk they put in their OS anyway.


Linux is third party, what are you talking about? People for free most of the time (minus a few hard core Linux OS developers) write their drivers for free, or the company itself will write the drivers of the Linix OS as a general driver and the company that develops the Linux OS will write around the driver to make their OS work with it… or visa versa if they are in good with the company developers at times… I've seen it personally happen a few times.

jsachun wrote...

Cyberpawz wrote...
One final thing about your programming knowledge, if MS went to AMD only the programming would still be the same, just for an individual processor. The one thing you fail to grasp is the Endian aspect. Memory utilidge is king in OS's.  Apple prefers their software to be programmed to utilize the Endian one way, while MS is dual… they don't care, which is one of the reason why they are famous for the BSOD. The reason for this is when a program attempts to grab for the same piece of memory because it is doing a reverse Endian memory usage than the OS does, it crashes because neither system can utilize the same system memory at the same time. This causes crashes. 


This statement above is the most blatant thing I've ever heard in my life. If you knew Linux, you'd know what it takes for OS's to run on different cpus. And if you've been following IT new recently, you'd actually find that AMD & Microsoft are working exclusively together.  Besides I haven't had a BSOD since I've been using Retail version of their OS. And yes it's quite funny how the computer manufacterers modify windows to suit thier purpose and always point the fingers at Microsoft when sometihing they have done causes harm to how windows should work.


You know with all your lack of knowledge and overbearing bravado here, you still are missing the point. Please learn what you are attempting to put out as fact… just because AMD is working with MS means nothing, Intel is partnering with Apple, what's your point? AMD is also working with IBM and SUN to work with the companies so that their OSs can be streamlined to develop a lower powered processor that can perform as its high power counterparts.

jsachun wrote...

Cyberpawz wrote...
I have seen though many Mac games out there that when they came out for the Mac from a PC port they run smoother, faster in many cases, except games from Bioware, and I think we all know why that is, and we also see the ability to communicate cross platform so Mac vs PC users are abundant.  The problem is that companies sometimes takes their time coming out with anything but Windows, as people have said here due to market share, but your excuse for if you want the latest and greatest games out there buy a PC really doesn't hold water.  It is the laziness or greed, or both of the developers to come out with a software program the same time that causes this to happen.


By the time this happens I think most games run smoothly on widows too if not before as they would've patched it at least 5 times & as well as the drivers for what ever multimedia device it was using. So what is the incentive to switch over to Apple?


Simple you get a finished product, not a patched leviathan that looks like another Dr. Frankenstein abomination because of all the patches surrounding it.

Modifié par Cyberpawz, 30 avril 2010 - 01:14 .


#84
Kail Ashton

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Mac is somehow more difficult to make cut & paste games onto then PS3, go figure~!

#85
Cyberpawz

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Kail Ashton wrote...

Mac is somehow more difficult to make cut & paste games onto then PS3, go figure~!


And that has to do with what?

#86
Madmax1981

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What the hell is going on with the Mac friendly expansion? I'm about to quit buying computer titles all together if I keep getting hosed on support.



They could have told us that they would not be providing further interest or support for the mac platform at sales.



My reason, is I work on a mac. I have to, so its nice to have a game on my work machine. I don't give a damn about Mac vs. PC for gaming. I wanted a game, thought I found a game that would be cool. Turns out they made me feel like an idiot for investing all these hours in their game only to find out that the developers couldn't give a damn. Nice one Bioware.

#87
Madmax1981

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To add to this. If I had known about the lack of support for mac. I would have bought the PC version and just played it on my mac through boot camp. Now they've not only not supported their mac platform but made loyal customers reconsider how they deal with Bioware in the future.



Next time I'll just stick with the PC version. Thanks for nothing.

#88
Knuxson

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I feel your pain Madmax, I am in the same boat as you. Why even release a Mac version if you aren't planning on supporting it? If I knew I would likely never see the expansion for Mac then I would have played the PC version with Bootcamp. I am still holding out hope a Mac version will be released, but I am not going to spend 100 bucks just to get the original and the expansion for windows and have to start my character over again.

Modifié par Knuxson, 25 mai 2010 - 10:06 .


#89
MTIFEROUS

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Knuxson wrote...

I feel your pain Madmax, I am in the same boat as you. Why even release a Mac version if you aren't planning on supporting it? If I knew I would likely never see the expansion for Mac then I would have played the PC version with Bootcamp. I am still holding out hope a Mac version will be released, but I am not going to spend 100 bucks just to get the original and the expansion for windows and have to start my character over again.


So I take it no Awakening expansion will be available for the mac soon?

#90
Guest_Mizu Inu_*

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Still hoping it will come this year. And maybe an option to reset achievements too...

#91
Seifz

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It might be that Awakening doesn't mesh well with Cider. Remember, the OS X port wasn't a real port.

#92
Sauronth

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<<== Is an IT/programmer guy, is a Mac user, and as an owner of an Apple ][ computer since before the IBM PC was released, I have to laugh at all the history lessons.



Bottom line is there is no technical reason why you can't make great games for Mac OS X. I'm rather sad that Bioware would release a Mac version of DAO but then leave the Mac people hanging when it comes to the expansions.



If Bioware has determined that it's not profitable to port and support games on the Mac, I guess that's too bad, though they seem to have hardly given it much of a shot.



If anyone from Bioware actually reads this flame-ridden board, I hope they will have the consideration of informing its Mac user base (myself included) what the current or planned support for the Mac platform is.



For the record, yes I have Boot Camp on my Mac, but frankly hate the notion of having to support a second operating system (especially Windows), and will not be supporting windows-only game developers, and instead buy native Mac games. My game dollars may represent a small percentage of the game industry, but hey, I'll make them count!

#93
craiger017

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I very much agree with you Sauronth. Pointless to make the Mac version of Origins if your not going to go any further with it. At least let us know you're going to say f-you to the make users and give us a heads up there will likely be no expansions for us.



And, Bioware, if you are not going to release Awakening for us, TELL US!! so were not sitting ehre waiting for something that isn't going to happen.



Is it really that hard to make the game for Mac and PC? Blizzard has been doing it for years, why can't anyone else?

#94
Sauronth

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I am almost equally surprised that Bioware has not tested the waters on the App Store. Given the great games they've done over the years, you'd think there would be some incentive to get onto the hottest gaming platform out there, ...the iOS 4 platform.

The fact that Mac OS X and iOS 4 are about 85% the same for gaming (The major difference being support for touchscreen, built-in accelerometer and Gyro, etc. that have no equivalent on the Mac) there is actually a lot of value in developing for these since you're hitting a pretty big and insanely rapidly expanding market.


I have no insider knowledge, but it would not take a guru to prognosticate that Apple is going to release a gaming console in the next 12 months that will do to the console market what Apple did to the MP3 player market, the smartphone market, and currently the tablet PC market.

I'm betting those tens of thousands of iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch games will be seamlessly coming to a big screen TV near you on an HD game box with more power then the Xbox 360, and cooler controls then the Wii, maybe as soon as Christmas! And yeah, it's going to be a game changer.

For those who live solidly in the PC/Xbox360 worlds, just look at something like http://itunes.apple....d364354155?mt=8 from Gameloft to get a feel for what else is out there. And yeah, it's really going to be a game changer... no kidding!

Modifié par Sauronth, 10 juin 2010 - 05:45 .


#95
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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Ugh...when I saw the title of this thread I knew it was going to degenerate into Mac Fanboiz vs. MS Fanboiz.



I use both. Let's get back on topic as to whether DA:A will be released in a Mac version or not. I'm sure it will, but likely, since Mac are a small percentage of the market, it will take time. Anyone with a successful business model will cover the largest percentage of potential customers first to make the best profit to keep their employees happy, to grow and to make more games. Everyone buying a Mac should realize this. One day Steve Jobs might rule the universe (I hope not...Macs are cool, but he isn't) and Mac users might get the big gaming titles first but for now they don't. It's reality and life isn't fair.



Hopefully a Bioware employee will respond to this thread with a release date for the expansion. Otherwise, hopefully Mr. Stanley Woo will lock it for all the warring Fanboiz.

#96
resin007

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So, just for fun (and partly to keep this thread - and therefore, hope - alive), I just sent the email below as a poke to gametreeonline. I will let you know if there is a response:



Hi, GameTree. Let me just say that I really enjoy my purchases from your company. Dragon Age in particular is a delight. With that love in mind, let me bug you for information about a release of expansion materials, especially Return to Ostagar and Awakenings.



It's pretty disheartening to have bought the Deluxe Edition and to have no follow-up and no communication on the support or continuation of this product when there exists scads of both for all other platforms.



As you know, Mac gamers have a choice for gaming: BootCamp or Mac. I CHOOSE to purchase Mac games because I want to support good companies. But over the years, especially with games that need ongoing support and expansions, it gets harder and harder to keep choosing Mac game companies, when such titles are treated as so much abandonware from the moment of their release.



Please continue to support the Mac Dragon Age community, if only by being more clear with your customers about the ongoing development (or lack thereof). Right now, all I have is the increasingly grim speculation of angry mac gamer forums...



Thank you.

#97
resin007

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So, a quick response from GameTree:



"Thank you for taking the time to write to us. I am glad to hear that you enjoy our games,and gaming on the Mac in general. There is both a patch and an expansion coming for Dragon Age Origins for the Mac. Both ofthese will be available very soon! We are also still looking at providing more DLC throughGameTree Online. When the update patch is available, your game will prompt you to install it upon launching.The expansion will be available for purchase on GameTree Online. Please stay tuned for news to come!"



Now, I'm fairly sure I've seen that exact response (or at least similar) posted elsewhere here, so who knows? However, it DOES say something that they are still sending that out. I guess they are still - at least internally - intending to release more material and patches. Too bad they can't be more open about the process...


#98
Seifz

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resin007 wrote...

Now, I'm fairly sure I've seen that exact response (or at least similar) posted elsewhere here, so who knows? However, it DOES say something that they are still sending that out. I guess they are still - at least internally - intending to release more material and patches. Too bad they can't be more open about the process...


We're talking about a company that took open source software (WINE), added a bunch of proprietary bits to it, charged users for their changes, and then didn't commit any of those changes to the original project.  How much openness did you really expect?  :P

#99
Spid3r

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It really is a recipe for creating upset customers...



1. Release game (albeit staggered) over 4 platforms

2. release upgrades, expansion, patchs etc for 3 out of the 4 platforms

3. watch the community of the 4th platform get upset about being left out



ta da!!!!



unsatisfied clients

#100
Gaxhung

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DAO is in the GameTree best sellers list, top most left most position in that grid -- the top seller? Damn website doesn't make it clear.