202 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ulicus wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The Enkindler wrote...

I you ignored the Toombs side-mission in ME does that mean your Shepard would not know that Cerberus was behind Akuze?

Yup. Which also seems like the most likely reason why BioWare never implemented any "Blame Cerberus for Akuze" dialogue option in ME2.

I'm not sure it would have been that much harder than the newsfeed regarding the side-quest. We already know there's a flag for Toomb's side-mission.

It's obvious the emails are just easy ways out of the whole "How do we give players the illusion of dozens of choices but keep it as simple as possible for ourselves?"

Don't get me wrong: I love BioWare, but they certainly didn't take the hard path here.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

shinobi602 wrote...

I was under the impression that the Akuze incident and experiments were not sanctioned by Cerberus but part of a...."rogue" Cerberus element, sort of like the facility that housed Jack.

That's what I thought would be the case.

[Ulicus]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Sorry, should have clarified. I didn’t mean to say that her statement worked; just that she acknowledged it happened.  A lot of people seem to think, and w/ good reason, that Sole Survivor’s past wasn’t brought up at all in the game.  It was in Miri’s statement, though just barely.   Apologies for not being clear. 

I wasn't having a go at you. Just explaining why I don't think Miranda's acknowledgement of the "dark past" works: because it was still dark two years ago, still feeding troops to thresher maws and killing admirals... and Miranda defends the cell that undertook those actions.

[Saint Op]

Ktauliss wrote...

Two words 'responsibility' and 'accountability'.  In your example the manager would presumably fire the employee in question if the behavior was known.  But, in the final analysis 'if' TIM is the head of Cerberus the 'buck' stops at him.   If a cell goes rogue and he takes no action to stop it (since he set it up and funded it) HE is responsible for the consequences.  As well too many 'Rogue' cells calls into question basic screening before assigning personnel to these cells.

Now I posted in another thread that TIM gets little credit for Shepard saving the galaxy simply by Project Lazarus and Normandy because the control element in that case was (and was intended to be) Shepard.  of course if we blow the base and run off with Normandy II and it's crew *chuckle* I guess we ARE one of those Rogue cells. 

Yeah but it says at one point that he prettymuch gives you the same control as all his main people by saying he is not responsible for what they do and like we learn in Jacks mission he didn't have the chance to "fire" them because when he found out they were all busy being slaughtered which is probably the norm.

Tim: What is going on this cell has been doing horrible expiriments...fire them all.

Lawson: Sir it appears they have just all been killed by a Commander Shepard.

[Forsakerr]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I was under the impression that the Akuze incident and experiments were not sanctioned by Cerberus but part of a...."rogue" Cerberus element, sort of like the facility that housed Jack.

That's what I thought would be the case.

if you listen to TIM everything related to Cerberus was the action of rogues cells or he think you are just plain stupid and  would believe everything he s saying or TIM is the most incompetant CEO that humanity ever had (cant control anyone under him) or writers lazyness take your pick

Modifié par Forsakerr, 21 février 2010 - 09:25 .

[JamieCOTC]

Ulicus wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Sorry, should have clarified. I didn’t mean to say that her statement worked; just that she acknowledged it happened.  A lot of people seem to think, and w/ good reason, that Sole Survivor’s past wasn’t brought up at all in the game.  It was in Miri’s statement, though just barely.   Apologies for not being clear. 

I wasn't having a go at you. Just explaining why I don't think Miranda's acknowledgement of the "dark past" works: because it was still dark two years ago, still feeding troops to thresher maws and killing admirals... and Miranda defends the cell that undertook those actions.

I agree completely.  I'm very curious to see if Miranda will still defend the dark past  in ME3. 

[Schneidend]

marshalleck wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

i certainly had a problem.

i spent most of the game wanting to send miranda out an airlock. i wouldve blown TIM away given the option.

telling him to screw off will have to do

You could just not play the game, and pretend your Shepard dramatically yelled "I'll never join you!" before throwing him/herself out an airlock.

You could also yell with righteous indignation at the collectors while you helplessly watched them harvest Earth's population. Not having a ship, crew, or intel are pretty crippling for a space hero.

[Schneidend]

marshalleck wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

i certainly had a problem.

i spent most of the game wanting to send miranda out an airlock. i wouldve blown TIM away given the option.

telling him to screw off will have to do

You could just not play the game, and pretend your Shepard dramatically yelled "I'll never join you!" before throwing him/herself out an airlock.

You could also yell with righteous indignation at the collectors while you helplessly watched them harvest Earth's population. Not having a ship, crew, or intel are pretty crippling for a space hero.

[Wynne]

None of the backgrounds got their due in this. None of them did. Sure, there are a few mentions here and there, which is nice, but it just wasn't enough to make you feel like your playthrough was spiced up by being this background instead of that one. I found that unfortunate.

I would've liked to visit Mindoir, see Toombs in person, etc. I would've liked for that stuff to really matter--at least to be able to talk about it with your love interest. I sure hope it's better in ME3.

A DLC would be great but I don't expect it. But yes... if you were a Sole Survivor, not being able to say a damned thing about it felt like a pretty lame oversight, considering. I really wanted that to matter beyond the first game.

Modifié par Wynne, 21 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[anmiro]

1) Jacob and Miranda asking about Akuze.

2) Ashley/Kaiden questioning my loyalty to the Alliance.

3) All the crew members who try to down play Cerberus's dark past.

4) Every conversation with TIM

5) Miranda telling me I should consider forgiving Cerberus.



The fact that Shepard never expresses his anger towards Cerberus in any of these conversations drives me crazy and makes it very hard to play the Sole Survivor Shepard.

[Forsakerr]

Wynne wrote...

None of the backgrounds got their due in this. None of them did. Sure, there are a few mentions here and there, which is nice, but it just wasn't enough to make you feel like your playthrough was spiced up by being this background instead of that one. I found that unfortunate.

I would've liked to visit Mindoir, see Toombs in person, etc. I would've liked for that stuff to really matter--at least to be able to talk about it with your love interest. I sure hope it's better in ME3.

A DLC would be great but I don't expect it. But yes... if you were a Sole Survivor, not being able to say a damned thing about it felt like a pretty lame oversight, considering. I really wanted that to matter beyond the first game.

and when you'd meet Toombs you would get stupid answers with stuff like but Cerberus changed meng , Cerberus was right about you !!!  or Tali would say remember admiral Kohuku and their Thorian,Rachnii, Husks experiments that wiped ou an entire colony and Shepard would says something like Ah yes "Cerberus experiments" (council's Turian fingers quote style)

[JamieCOTC]

Wynne wrote...

None of the backgrounds got their due in this. None of them did. Sure, there are a few mentions here and there, which is nice, but it just wasn't enough to make you feel like your playthrough was spiced up by being this background instead of that one. I found that unfortunate.

I would've liked to visit Mindoir, see Toombs in person, etc. I would've liked for that stuff to really matter--at least to be able to talk about it with your love interest. I sure hope it's better in ME3.

A DLC would be great but I don't expect it. But yes... if you were a Sole Survivor, not being able to say a damned thing about it felt like a pretty lame oversight, considering. I really wanted that to matter beyond the first game.

Again, I'm w/ the majority here.  Akuze should have been dealt with in this game. That said, I played a Colonist/Sole Survivor in ME1 and ME2.  The morale of the story in both background missions in ME1 was to move on.  The Akuze foul up aside, Shepard has moved on.  I would have loved to have visited Mindoir or faced Toombs but that’s her past and she has to look to the future. 

Of course the past sometimes has a nasty habit of catching up w/ you, so maybe there is hope for ME3. 

[JamieCOTC]

Schneidend wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

i certainly had a problem.

i spent most of the game wanting to send miranda out an airlock. i wouldve blown TIM away given the option.

telling him to screw off will have to do

You could just not play the game, and pretend your Shepard dramatically yelled "I'll never join you!" before throwing him/herself out an airlock.

You could also yell with righteous indignation at the collectors while you helplessly watched them harvest Earth's population. Not having a ship, crew, or intel are pretty crippling for a space hero.

To be honest, I wish that had been an option. 

Shepard: I'll never work for Cerberus.  
Miranda: Then stay here and die w/ the rest.
Shepard: Fine by me.
Station blows up
Critical Mission failure. 

[anmiro]

It seems to me that the only time TIM cares what his cells are doing is when they attract public attention and compromise the organizations secrecy. 

[Forsakerr]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

i certainly had a problem.

i spent most of the game wanting to send miranda out an airlock. i wouldve blown TIM away given the option.

telling him to screw off will have to do

You could just not play the game, and pretend your Shepard dramatically yelled "I'll never join you!" before throwing him/herself out an airlock.

You could also yell with righteous indignation at the collectors while you helplessly watched them harvest Earth's population. Not having a ship, crew, or intel are pretty crippling for a space hero.

To be honest, I wish that had been an option. 

Shepard: I'll never work for Cerberus.  
Miranda: Then stay here and die w/ the rest.
Shepard: Fine by me.
Station blows up
Critical Mission failure. 

well maybe not that far but at least a few remarks with TIM in conversations or mentioning that with all the crap he done trust factor is real low

[anmiro]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Spectre_Shepard wrote...

i certainly had a problem.

i spent most of the game wanting to send miranda out an airlock. i wouldve blown TIM away given the option.

telling him to screw off will have to do

You could just not play the game, and pretend your Shepard dramatically yelled "I'll never join you!" before throwing him/herself out an airlock.

You could also yell with righteous indignation at the collectors while you helplessly watched them harvest Earth's population. Not having a ship, crew, or intel are pretty crippling for a space hero.

To be honest, I wish that had been an option. 

Shepard: I'll never work for Cerberus.  
Miranda: Then stay here and die w/ the rest.
Shepard: Fine by me.
Station blows up
Critical Mission failure. 

I think its funny that Miranda says "this is the last shuttle of this place."
But over to the left there is actually another shuttle. 

"Actually i think I'll find my own way out of here. Cya losers."

Modifié par anmiro, 21 février 2010 - 09:56 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

In any case "You get the help you deserve." during the Paragon endgame debriefing seems to be the closest we'll ever get.

[JamieCOTC]

anmiro wrote...

It seems to me that the only time TIM cares what his cells are doing is when they attract public attention and compromise the organizations secrecy. 

I think you are right.  The whole "rouge" thing is just plausible deniability.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 21 février 2010 - 10:03 .

[Destructo-Bot]

shinobi602 wrote...

I was under the impression that the Akuze incident and experiments were not sanctioned by Cerberus but part of a...."rogue" Cerberus element, sort of like the facility that housed Jack.

According to EDI, "rogue" elements of Cerberus are bunk. TIM keeps the number of projects down so he can supervise them directly. If something happens in Cerberus, it's with de facto support of TIM.

[Nizzemancer]

shinobi602 wrote...

I was under the impression that the Akuze incident and experiments were not sanctioned by Cerberus but part of a...."rogue" Cerberus element, sort of like the facility that housed Jack.

When you're a multi-cell terrorist organisation it's easy to say it was "a rogue element" and deny any involvement..

[Ktauliss]

JamieCOTC wrote...

anmiro wrote...

It seems to me that the only time TIM cares what his cells are doing is when they attract public attention and compromise the organizations secrecy. 

I think you are right.  The whole "rogue" thing is just plausible deniability. 

the thing about 'plausible deniability' is that it becomes 'implausible' if you use it too often.

@anmiro, that is perhaps the 'only' thing that would be scarier than him 'deliberately' planning these things.  That would be like scattering loaded guns on a playground and walking away.

[WillieStyle]

Slightly offtopic but,

could someone please explain to me what Cerberus hoped to accomplish by feeding 50 marines to a thresher may?

I mean, its a giant subterranian worm-thingie that can bite through an armored vehicle and shoots acid. What did they expect would happen?

I really hate when games/movies/comics make chaotic-stupid villains. Villains who do aweful things just to show they're evil.

I also hate when games/comics/movies have the all-encompassing bad guy who's responsible for every bad thing that ever happens. I think ME1 suffered from this, and it came back to bite Bioware in the arse a bit in ME2.

[druidofwarp]

Agreed with OP why the hell does this game even say im a Sole Survivor? Other than Cpl Toombs email you would never know.

[Ulicus]

WillieStyle wrote...

could someone please explain to me what Cerberus hoped to accomplish by feeding 50 marines to a thresher may?

Lulz?

WillieStyle wrote...
I mean, its a giant subterranian worm-thingie that can bite through an armored vehicle and shoots acid. What did they expect would happen?

Akuze was humanity's first encounter with them. Hell, maybe they simply wanted to see how well humanity's finest would fare? Maybe they wanted to run training simulations from the data acquired? Or maybe the Alliance didn't do genetic enhancement as standard for marines at the time, and they figured such a bloodbath would help their lobbyists' case for it? Who knows?

Despite my first answer, I don't think they did it for the lulz, nor do I think it was necessarily chaotic-stupid.

I'd love to find out the reasons behind it, actually. Hearing Cerberus' side of the Akuze story was one of the things I was most looking forward to in ME2. Alas.

Modifié par Ulicus, 21 février 2010 - 11:42 .

[anmiro]