170 réponses à ce sujet

[Mirthadrond]

I've finished one play-through, and I find myself in a bit of a moral conundrum...

I know siding with Harrowmont is generally 'bad' for the dwaves in the end (unless your a dwarf noble), and Bhelen is actually 'good' for the whole of dwarven society, (at the cost of being a dictator) but I'm having a hard time siding with Bhelen because he's such a scumbag......  yet... I want the Dwaves to prosper......


ARRRGH!!!!

[TBastian]

There is no "good" dwarf ending.
Bhelen's rule -> Noble Rebellion (remember what he did goes against everything that the dwarf society stands for) -> Possible Revolution + Darkspawn waiting -> Fall of Orzammar. There's some nice stuff at first, but Bhelen is just forcing the dwarves to change way too fast. The result is inevitable.

Harrowmont's death -> Possible Revolution + Darkspawn waiting -> Fall of Orzammar.

Both represent polar extremes, neither will work.

Modifié par TBastian, 20 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[RBM94]

I don't think Orzammar would fall - whatever the result, Orzammar is an entire city, and a forified one, with a great army. It has stood against the darkspawn for centuries, why would it fall?

As Branka said, rulers die and are changed, the important is benefiting the whole dwarven society.

The dwarves don't need a ruler to fight and defend themselves, it is their blood.



Thinking from this point of view, Bhelen,as corrupt and foul as he may be, is the best choice : even if his caste changes in the dwarven society do not endure, at least he has recovered some thaigs, and, eventually, he will die, ending the tirany. The assembly will reforge, rebuild, and all left from Bhelen's rule will be what he did of good: recovering the thaigs.



As much as I like Harrowmount far more, Bhelen is, in my opinion, the best option, for his ideas of equallity and militar capacity.

[TBastian]

I don't think Orzammar would fall - whatever the result, Orzammar is an entire city, and a forified one, with a great army. It has stood against the darkspawn for centuries, why would it fall?

Because no Orzammar king has ever defied the dwarven way of life? Incited the wrath of all its nobles? Abolished the assembly? Gone against the ancients? You know how dwarven politics is. It is inevitable that they will turn against each other, to the exclusion of everything else. Orzammar has always been united against the darkspawn. What do you think would happen if it got divided?

Why do you think civilizations like the Roman Empire fell in real life? 

Bhelen's idea is that the only way to strengthen his position as ruler was to do what he did. He does not care for Orzammar. Not in the least. The "Equality" and "better trade relations with the surfacers" that happen in his rule are merely side-effects, which he means to exploit.

Modifié par TBastian, 20 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[TBastian]

They ran out of trees...

No. Someone introduced the "Chantry" to them. Maybe.

Modifié par TBastian, 20 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[VaeVictus X]

Mirthadrond wrote...

...having a hard time siding with Bhelen because he's such a scumbag......  yet...

Watch it!  That's my nephew's daddy you're talking about!

[Vaylemn]

for my epilogue, the chantry led an exalted march against orzammar with the dwarven revolt after choosing bhelen.

[Eudaemonium]

That happens regardless of ruler - it depends on your conclusions of the Orzammar Chantry quest w/Brother Burkel. The Dagna quest can also have a simialr epilogue.

[mousestalker]

Talking to the Dwarven missionary doesn't end well.

[Les Polar]

I supported both of them (Bhelen and Harrowmont) at the same time and decided at the corronation who would be king...lots of back stabbing and double crossing....I loved it.

[Envor44]

Also if you character are from dwarf noble origin, and in case you pick Bhelen, when Alistar ask you about boon.

You may requests human military to join dwarven force, the result is combined human and Dwarven armies will reclaim many Thaigs and push the Darkspawn back to the Dead Trenches.

Modifié par Envor44, 21 février 2010 - 12:53 .

[aprilia1k]

When first approaching "Vartag", Behlen's henchman, his attitude ("Decide right now - We'll only support you if you.. " assist us in spreading lies, i.e. defaming our opponent... Forcing the Warden to do their dirty-work, spreading libelous and contrived falsehoods as fact, etc..
What scumbags --- I wanted to chop Vartag's head off right there --- and couldn't wait to help Harrowmont - clearly the less shady of the two, if you've any intelligence at all. Yes - I said it. I tried to side with Behlen subsequently but couldn't get past that hoodlum Vartag --- had to find the quickest way to carve him up with my two long swords...
and Behlen as well.   Couldn't chop that lil sh** up quickly enough -  even if it resulted in gangs of fanatics trying to cut us down in the streets ever after -- guess that's the fun part anyway....

As far as Harrowmont's rule coming to a dismal end -- yeah, that was a dissappointment - probably much due to the legion's of crooks that still were loyal to the scumbag prince even in death.  Well -- either way they were in for bad times afaict... and a few kings down the line it's all moot anyway.  Dusttown doesn't really go away after all.  And, unless I am mistaken, both sides have us take out that female underworld (dusttown) ruler, whose name escapes me at the moment (varia or somesuch) ---  so, neither are really all that concerned with the common man, or duster, anyway right?

Modifié par aprilia1k, 07 mars 2010 - 01:55 .

[WillowCry]

Harrowmont FTW

[aprilia1k]

That normally means "for the win", but some use it for "F the world"

[krylo]

TBastian wrote...

Because no Orzammar king has ever defied the dwarven way of life? Incited the wrath of all its nobles? Abolished the assembly? Gone against the ancients?

You need to spend more time at the Shaperate.

Bhelen abolishing the assembly is based upon precedent.  An ancient king had abolished the assembly during the last blight, ruling that the military should report directly to the king during times of crisis.

You should also pay more attention to Orzammar.  All that backstabbing that Bhelen does?  All the manipulations?  That is EXACTLY the dwarven way of life.  The only way he defied it was by allowing the casteless into the military.  And, considering that the paragons are considered the voice of the ancients, a paragon gave you the crown and told you to chose a king, and you (in this setting) chose Bhelen--he has the blessings of the ancients by virtue of holding the throne.  Everything he does is with their will.

[casedawgz]

It's interesting that to get the best dwarven endings you have to side with whichever candidate your origin shouldn't be picking. A noble who sides with Bhelen is much more forgiving than I, but that actually gives the best ending.

[Envor44]

Choose Bhelen: He will bring Orzammar to modern age



Choose Harrowmont: Future of Orzammar is not so bright...

[L0n3w0lf1971]

i go with Harrowmont for king myself.



if horrowmont is king bhelen loses it and attacks.

if bhelen is king he orders horrowmont dead even when horrowmont would still stand by and follow bhelen as king.



i think the dwarfs would perfer dieing out with honner than bhelen's slow death

[Vuokseniska]

go with bhelen without the anvil



harrowmont without the anvil is also ok... but city is dwindling.



Harrowmont + anvil = elves + human kidnap raides

[hero 2]

It doesn't matter. Just toss a coin. Any sequel will be set after all the text at the end of the game, so the political situation in said sequel will be the same regardless of which one you pick. This is how they keep the amount of circumstantial content down to a minimum. 

Modifié par hero 2, 07 mars 2010 - 11:30 .

[suzanne536]

My Elven mage played both of them then decided on Harromont in the end. Whether it was right or wrong is water under the bridge. I too wanted to kill Vartag when I found out he was a scoundrel.. So I killed him and his king.

[MorGothic]

I am currently playing a DNW through the game (for the 2nd time as I went Hawwormont with no Anvil the first time and yeah...wasn't happy with the out come) and this was one of the hardest things for me to make a decision on. I decided to RP my charcter as so that he hates Belhen for both the murder of Trien and his exile now you would think that this would make the choice easy king wise BUT he also wants to do what is best for Ozammar's future....damn.



So with that in mind I plan to side with Harrowmont but give Belhen the Throne. The idea is that the longer my DN works for Harrowmont the more he realises that he is not what is best for Ozammar's future and that he will be a weak King, so my DN starts to contemplate the unthinkable...putting Behlen on the throne despite all he done. As for the Anvil I am not sure...on one hand my DN would be horrorifed by Branka's actions but then he knows the power of a single Golem and imagine's what an army could do. This is something I wouldn't mind people's opinons on I know Behlen without Anvil leads to a good ending...but that means no goelms...*sigh*

[Drasanil]

Bhelen every time, sure he seems unpleasant and kind of douchie, but Harrowmont is just better at hiding it. The proof is in the first mission, whether or not Vartag faked the promisary notes, the trick wouldn't have worked unless Harrowmont actually was double dealing both houses, other wise only one of them would have turned on him at best. This is backed up when Bhelen actually gives your PC credit, for grasping how Orzammar actually works, as opposed to Harrowmont who plays the innocent goody-two-shoes infront of you.



Finally Bhelen is genuine in his commitment against the darkspawn, when he calls the Blight the "Fulcrum of True Evil" and you call him out on it being a little extreme, he has a very "WTF" kind of Grey Warden are you reaction.

[aprilia1k]

"Bhelen every time" -
WRONG. Harrowmont has far more honor in every different scenario-- and Bhelen being "kind of douchie" is like saying the fricking ocean is a wee bit damp. You must yourself be the scoundrel type. As most thinking folks have already asserted - in the end it really doesn't matter, the dwarves will devour themselves from within regardless - and your assertion about the promissary note being valid is based on the totally buggy dialogue that has already been talked about endlessly... when dozens of other more clearly spelled-out scenes show that they were definitely faked. Oh well -- it is funny to see someone defending the clear scumbag --

Modifié par aprilia1k, 07 mars 2010 - 06:19 .