102 réponses à ce sujet

[brgillespie]

If it's overpowered... oh, well. It's a single-player game. You're not ruining anyone's fun.

[Graunt]

Awesome Helmet wrote...

im playing on insanity with a soldier right now and i choose the revenenat. its beastly. it kills fast at short to medium range. long range isnt what its meant for, obviously. thats why i have a sniper rifle. im using the M92 sniper and its awesome. ill never use the rapid fire sniper again. im getting plenty of one shot kills with the starter sniper. once i found that out, i knew i didnt need the widow, as powerfull as it might be. i never considered the shotgun. the revenant puts out huge damage consistently. you cant go wrong taking the revenant.

Shotgun has it's uses before you get the Revenant and can still be useful in very specific situations.  Also, I didn't bother using the starter sniper rifle on my Soldier after getting the Viper, but I think all in all it would probably be better to just stay with the starter. The ammo count is similar when you factor in how many shots are required comparatively and when you're sniping under AR your ROF and reload are slower anyway.  Some people might be able to make a better use from the Viper though and would rarely miss and also be able to get a full 3-4 headshots off.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[Urazz]

rumination888 wrote...

Coughee Brotha wrote...

I may be mistaken but I read somewhere that adrenaline rush gives a 100% damage bonus because of slower fire rate. wouldn't that make the soldier more efficient with a sniper rifle if true. I think I read it on the mass effect wiki

There isn't an easy explanation for why the Viper > Widow for a Soldier whereas the Widow > Viper for an Infiltrator. A lot of factors come into play.

A Soldier has to wait 3 seconds inbetween each dilation. The dilation itself lasts 5 seconds, and reloading is slow so they can only get 1 Widow off per round of dilation. You're basically waiting 8 seconds if you want gauranteed headshots with a Widow. The Viper gets more shots off during the dilation, and much of the bonus damage from an AR is overkill for a Widow.

Everytime an Infiltrator scopes, they gain the dilation effect, and time returns to normal as soon as they stop aiming. The advantage of this isn't solely to make it easier to make head shots, its mainly so you can go on longer without needing to regenerate your shields/health. That meshes well with Tactical Cloak, as cloaking will stop and reset your regeneration. The Viper requires you to stay up and out of cover longer if you want to match the Widow. The longer you can go on without needing to regenerate, the more oppurtunities you'll have to deal damage.

Basically, an Infiltrator will play more like an actual sniper, whereas the Soldier plays more like someone with a hunting rifle.

Exactly.  Not only that but if it's something more durable or bigger, a soldier will want to get closer or won't need to and he/she will use the assault rifle.


The widow is pretty much more of an infiltrator weapon than a soldier weapon but it's great for soldiers as well.

Modifié par Urazz, 21 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[OneBadAssMother]

I would say Widow is better for soldiers as adrenadline rush (heightened maxed) gives an apparent 140% damage bonus. So that's 150 damage... AND...

+140% rush damage
+80/70/50% damage (whether using shredder,ap,or warp ammo)
+50% sniper rifle damage
+50% AP sniper rifle damage
+?% w/e percent damage you get from headshots

... hmmm I haven't tested this, but I'm assuming you can 1-shot everything on insanity.

For infiltrator I used the Viper. With sniper focus you can pop 2 shots, then head back to cover then pot 2 shots again all while time is slowed down, no need for even any cooldown worries.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 07 mars 2010 - 07:05 .

[OniGanon]

Saying overpoweredness in singleplayer games doesn't matter is so so wrong. Generally, people don't go out of their way to gimp themselves. Overpoweredness limits options, because it no longer makes sense to choose anything but the OP option. If one option is too clearly OP, everyone takes it and having all those other classes and abilities was a waste of time.



That being said, I don't think ME2 has a class or ability so OP as to cause problems. Except maybe Reave.

[Deflagratio]

brgillespie wrote...

If it's overpowered... oh, well. It's a single-player game. You're not ruining anyone's fun.

This is the line the begins the downward spiral towards features like in the next Mario Galaxy game, where the game plays itself. Challenge, and thus balance are crucial to a game's integrity and logetivity. If there is 1 "Best" Solution, why bother doing anything else?

I would just half the Widow's Ammo capacity, that would even things out easily. I like that it's basically a 1 shot kill, but having 12 shots when there is rarely an encounter with more than 10, it's just silly and broken, and if you can't see that, well then, you're the type of person who would bot and RMT on an MMO, and you can die in a pile of semiliquid ****.

[Comrade Bork]

I felt that the Infiltrator/Soldier with the Viper was far more effective than with the Widow. I killed things much faster with the Viper in both cases.

[Cookie775]

Sniping, especially with the Widow, makes most fights in the game pretty trivial. I played through Insanity with an Infiltrator using the Widow and primarily just sniping. Headshots took out most things in one shot, and with cloak and the time-slowdown on zoom, getting headshots isn't very difficult. It go boring. Very reminiscent of my soldier insanity run.



I'm playing through again with an Infiltrator, but this time sticking to the SMG and going in close quarters. It's much more of a challenge, but much more fun at the same time.

[ScroguBlitzen]

I've played both the Infiltrator+Widow and Vanguard+Viper on Insanity and I think the Vanguard is actually easier (once you pay your dues in deaths learning to charge effectively). The Infiltrator is very powerful but is still susceptible to getting rushed with no where to run on some missions. Nobody rushes a Vanguard. Not even Krogan.

[RGFrog]

The widow would be overpowered if it had enough ammo. Try infiltrator on insanity. You don't 1 shot much of anything as pretty much everything has at least armor. So, fully upgraded, a lot takes at least two shots. And with the slow reload, I find myself setting off the cloak before the reload finishes. If I'm lucky I remember to reload, but most times I click the button to fire. That ends the cloak and starts a reload. So, for a second or two, I'm f'd and I've lost my bonuses for the shot, not to mention the shot itself.

Also, with Infiltrator you have to be very careful about who you choose to take with you. If you don't, you will be rushed, especially by husks. More times than not this has nearly ended me. Especially on the IFF mission when my two stupid team members disregarded my placement orders or placed correctly only looking the wrong way and didn't fire a shot until it was too late. So, i'm left with 2 dead mates, and 5 or more husks rushing me.

Sure, cloak and run away, but what about when they're already on you, you just finished a widow shot on cloak trying to clear off the husks from your now dead team member. Suddenly you have no cloak, 5 husks hammering on you, and no effective cqc weapons or powers.

So, while widow may seam like an overpowered item, it can become a liability PDQ, which means that in balance on insanity i spend far more time on setup and ensuring nothing gets close to mates or myself than a soldier that can blast his/her way through pretty much anything without regard to anything else going on around him.

Infiltrator on insanity with the widow is no cakewalk and is more of a game of attrition and careful asset management. 12 rounds becomes nothing real quick and I wish I had more so I wouldn't have to switch to the machine pistol so much...

This play around (3rd) I found myself using more of my team's powers than even my widow since there never seems to be many stupid clips laying around and I never seem to have enough rounds when i do choose to shoot.

No, widow is balanced by the class, much like everything else that isn't soldier in this game.

[WillieStyle]

RGFrog wrote...

The widow would be overpowered if it had enough ammo. Try infiltrator on insanity. You don't 1 shot much of anything as pretty much everything has at least armor. So, fully upgraded, a lot takes at least two shots.

This hasn't been my experience at all.  Whether early on with the Mantis on a standard Insanity Run, or later-game (NG+) with the Widow, I find I can 1-shot most non-elites with headshots and the proper ammo type.  Most elites can be killed with a cloaked headshot or headshot + incenerate.  Hell, with heavy warp ammo I 2 shot Harbinger.

The exceptions are "bosses" and "elites" with tons of Barriers/Shields. I can't 1-shot Geth Hunters or Collector Gaurdians even with Assassin Cloak, but I bring squadmates with Overload/Warp to wittle down their defenses first.

[incinerator950]

Yes, because a large, Anti-Tank Rifle, is not going to be overpowered.

[RGFrog]

True, it is supposed to be an anti-materiel rifle...



I guess I'm not using the right ammo, then. I typically use squad incendiary or warp/heavy disruptor.



I need to look closer at what I'm doing, then. I'd say 75% of my shots are headshots, but I don't seem to be bringing down armored anything in one headshot

[sandman7431]

RGFrog wrote...

True, it is supposed to be an anti-materiel rifle...

I guess I'm not using the right ammo, then. I typically use squad incendiary or warp/heavy disruptor.

I need to look closer at what I'm doing, then. I'd say 75% of my shots are headshots, but I don't seem to be bringing down armored anything in one headshot

Try retraining to squad cryo and heavy warp ammo.

[Gaidren]

I had huge, huge problems with Widow ammo on NG+ Insanity as an Infiltrator.

I also hated the Cloak + Widow shot playstyle....too often enemies would pop back under cover as I took the time to Cloak pre-shot....and if my squad was dead they *always* did this.



I found Incin/Reave/E-drain power spam with Viper shots in between powers to be more fun and effective and much less frustrating. Pretty much only use Cloak to get in and out of desired cover spots (still a great power even if just used for that). Bonus is that you get to pick up either Vind or Evis as an extra weapon this way too.



Oddly enough, the Widow on my Soldier....mostly because I the Vindicator. Vind is my Soldier primary weapon since I love how easy it is to chain headshots with it (I did try the Rev...Rev was far better at close range but felt worse at mid range+ due to missed headshots). When you are using Widow as a secondary weapon the lack of ammo is really a non-issue.

[Schneidend]

_-Greywolf-_ wrote...

The Widow is a beast, with my soldier I would choose it over the Revenant any day.

But I have a question, did anyone actually find the Revenant any good? I mean sure it would be good a close range but the spread is horrible even when you burst fire and quite frankly even if I had access to the Revenant I would still use my Vindicator.

I love the Revenant. But, then, I love mid-to-close-range combat. I only bust out my Soldier's Mantis when I have to, or when I feel pinned down by significant suppressive fire.

[skarlson]

Personally, I prefer all 3. Widow, revenant and claymore I choose you! On my adept. Now that is fun.

[OneBadAssMother]

The Widow is a beast, with my soldier I would choose it over the Revenant any day.

Just finished a soldier insanity run. Picked up the Widow and I have to agree.



Soldiers have adrenaline rush (with +140% damage and 3sec cooldown), and fully upgraded, here is what I found.

Regulars (low class enemies) - 1 headshot

Veterans (med class enemies) - 2 headshots

Scions - 3 headshots (their heads are at the side)

Harbinger - 2 headshots

Heavy Mechs - 1 headshot (if the shields are down), 4-5 headshots (if shields are still up - better to wither down its shields with the AR first)

Praetorians - ???... Been trying too hard to stay alive to count...



For infiltrator, the cloak has a 6-sec cooldown, and only +75% damage. So in my opinion, using the viper is better.

[rumination888]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

The Widow is a beast, with my soldier I would choose it over the Revenant any day.

Just finished a soldier insanity run. Picked up the Widow and I have to agree.

Soldiers have adrenaline rush (with +140% damage and 3sec cooldown), and fully upgraded, here is what I found.
Regulars (low class enemies) - 1 headshot
Veterans (med class enemies) - 2 headshots
Scions - 3 headshots (their heads are at the side)
Harbinger - 2 headshots
Heavy Mechs - 1 headshot (if the shields are down), 4-5 headshots (if shields are still up - better to wither down its shields with the AR first)
Praetorians - ???... Been trying too hard to stay alive to count...

For infiltrator, the cloak has a 6-sec cooldown, and only +75% damage. So in my opinion, using the viper is better.

You can only get 1 widow shot per Adrenaline Rush on a Soldier.
Unless you're a sharpshooter, thats 1 gauranteed headshot every 8 seconds.
And after you shoot with the Widow, you lose real time due to waiting for the 'rush to end.

An infiltrator gets easy headshots everytime they scope, and time returns to normal as soon as they stop aiming.
Cloaking resets regeneration, and they stay out in the open far longer with the Viper, thus; cutting short the Viper's actual DPS as they tend to have to wait and regenerate more often.
If you do it right, an infiltrator with cloak and a widow will never have to wait to replenish their shields.

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

OneBadAssMother wrote...

The Widow is a beast, with my soldier I would choose it over the Revenant any day.

Just finished a soldier insanity run. Picked up the Widow and I have to agree.

Soldiers have adrenaline rush (with +140% damage and 3sec cooldown), and fully upgraded, here is what I found.
Regulars (low class enemies) - 1 headshot
Veterans (med class enemies) - 2 headshots
Scions - 3 headshots (their heads are at the side)
Harbinger - 2 headshots
Heavy Mechs - 1 headshot (if the shields are down), 4-5 headshots (if shields are still up - better to wither down its shields with the AR first)
Praetorians - ???... Been trying too hard to stay alive to count...

For infiltrator, the cloak has a 6-sec cooldown, and only +75% damage. So in my opinion, using the viper is better.

You can only get 1 widow shot per Adrenaline Rush on a Soldier.
Unless you're a sharpshooter, thats 1 gauranteed headshot every 8 seconds.
And after you shoot with the Widow, you lose real time due to waiting for the 'rush to end.

An infiltrator gets easy headshots everytime they scope, and time returns to normal as soon as they stop aiming.
Cloaking resets regeneration, and they stay out in the open far longer with the Viper, thus; cutting short the Viper's actual DPS as they tend to have to wait and regenerate more often.
If you do it right, an infiltrator with cloak and a widow will never have to wait to replenish their shields.

But without the Cloak damage bonus the Widow headshots are far weaker. Plus as a Soldier you should be using Viper anyway.

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...

But without the Cloak damage bonus the Widow headshots are far weaker. Plus as a Soldier you should be using Viper anyway.

The majority of enemies die in 1 Widow headshot without cloak. I don't see a problem.

Cloak and sniper passive meshes well with the Widow.
Adrenaline Rush meshes well with the Viper.

[OneBadAssMother]

Aye, 1 shot, back to cover, wait... then rush again. Losing real-time was never an issue for me... as long as you focus on one enemy at a time they won't regen their shields/barriers. Only problem is if they advance - switch to AR for that. It saves on ammo as well using adrenaline rush, maximising damage per shot.

On my infiltrator run I used the viper more like a semi-auto rifle then a sniper rifle. Popped 2 headshots, went back to cover, popped another 2 headshots, all while in sniper focus. However, Viper has ammo in abundance. Widow... not so much. Hence personally I prefer Viper.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 09 mars 2010 - 03:12 .

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

But without the Cloak damage bonus the Widow headshots are far weaker. Plus as a Soldier you should be using Viper anyway.

The majority of enemies die in 1 Widow headshot without cloak. I don't see a problem.

Cloak and sniper passive meshes well with the Widow.
Adrenaline Rush meshes well with the Viper.

Well you can kill the lowest level of enemies outside of cloak if you have a +damage bonus talent Ammo (like AP or Warp). Not matter what you do you can't kill any Lt or higher outside of cloak.

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...

Well you can kill the lowest level of enemies outside of cloak if you have a +damage bonus talent Ammo (like AP or Warp). Not matter what you do you can't kill any Lt or higher outside of cloak.

Yea, thats kind of the point of cloak's damage bonus.
Is there some sort of miscommunication going on? I never said cloak was bad.

Modifié par rumination888, 09 mars 2010 - 03:24 .

[OneBadAssMother]

Heh personally I never used cloak on my infiltrator cept when I find myself flanked and need to disappear. Probably why I'm not as enthusiatic about an infilrator with a widow compared to a soldier with a widow.