102 réponses à ce sujet

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

Well you can kill the lowest level of enemies outside of cloak if you have a +damage bonus talent Ammo (like AP or Warp). Not matter what you do you can't kill any Lt or higher outside of cloak.

Yea, thats kind of the point of cloak's damage bonus.
Is there some sort of miscommunication going on? I never said cloak was bad.

Neither did I. But I feel your are exaggerating the Infiltrator's sniping abilities. The Soldier is a good Sniper from the start of the game (even rank 1 ARush gives +100% damage). The Infiltrator does not get good till they max out Cloak and hit the Collector Ships (for Widow and -20% tech recharge) plus they have to use their bonus power on a ammo power.

[rumination888]

Good at the start of the game? Waiting 10 seconds per Adrenaline Rush, and 1 Mantis shot per 'rush doesn't exactly scream "good". Especially in a game where clearing most rooms fast nets you less enemies and more ammo.

[OneBadAssMother]

5 seconds actually with rank 1 'rush. rank 2 - 4seconds, rank 3/4 - 3seconds.



Actually the mantis performed quite well until replaced by the widow in my soldier run. Using viper with my soldier didn't really do so well. Massacred my way up the Dantius towers with the mantis, picked up the viper, then wondered why I EVER picked it up heh.

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

Good at the start of the game? Waiting 10 seconds per Adrenaline Rush, and 1 Mantis shot per 'rush doesn't exactly scream "good". Especially in a game where clearing most rooms fast nets you less enemies and more ammo.

Its all proportional. At the same level the Infilitrator has what Rank 1/2 Cloak and Rank 1 Passive (30% slow)?

I'm sure 0-20% damage bonus and 0-30% slow makes you an awesome sniper.

[rumination888]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

5 seconds actually with rank 1 'rush. rank 2 - 4seconds, rank 3/4 - 3seconds.

Actually the mantis performed quite well until replaced by the widow in my soldier run. Using viper with my soldier didn't really do so well. Massacred my way up the Dantius towers with the mantis, picked up the viper, then wondered why I EVER picked it up heh.

Rush has a duration of 5 seconds.
The first rank has a cooldown of 5 seconds. 
Thats 10 seconds per rush.
You can only get 1 Mantis shot off during the 5 seconds of a 'rush.

I notice a lot of peoples ideas about what is effective or not comes down to the placebo effect.

themaxzero wrote...

Its all proportional. At the same level the Infilitrator has what Rank 1/2 Cloak and Rank 1 Passive (30% slow)?

I'm sure 0-20% damage bonus and 0-30% slow makes you an awesome sniper.

I don't think you understand that Adrenaline Rush actually penalizes the DPS of 1-shot weapons like the Widow/Mantis.

[OneBadAssMother]

Damage Per Second - seems rather irrelevant on insanity, you have to advance carefully, and half the time you're pinned down. Except for melee creatures (which using a sniper rifle on them seems like a waste), enemies dont really advance that fast, geth hunters/vanguards can be easily shot down (you don't get more then 1 or 2 charging at once) as long as they are made priority targets. For Damage Per SHOT - Soldier wins with adrenaline rush.



The loss of real-time isn't really that critical. Had Tali being cooked inside the vents while I had to take care of the drones/harbinger with my widow soldier but never lost her once to time.

[rumination888]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

Damage Per Second - seems rather irrelevant on insanity, you have to advance carefully, and half the time you're pinned down. Except for melee creatures (which using a sniper rifle on them seems like a waste), enemies dont really advance that fast, geth hunters/vanguards can be easily shot down (you don't get more then 1 or 2 charging at once) as long as they are made priority targets. For Damage Per SHOT - Soldier wins with adrenaline rush.

The loss of real-time isn't really that critical. Had Tali being cooked inside the vents while I had to take care of the drones/harbinger with my widow soldier but never lost her once to time.

I agree that you have to advance carefully, but you make it sound like you also have to advance slowly.
The faster you can advance, the more ammo you pick up, the less enemies you face, and the less times you'll be pinned down.

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

OneBadAssMother wrote...

5 seconds actually with rank 1 'rush. rank 2 - 4seconds, rank 3/4 - 3seconds.

Actually the mantis performed quite well until replaced by the widow in my soldier run. Using viper with my soldier didn't really do so well. Massacred my way up the Dantius towers with the mantis, picked up the viper, then wondered why I EVER picked it up heh.

Rush has a duration of 5 seconds.
The first rank has a cooldown of 5 seconds. 
Thats 10 seconds per rush.
You can only get 1 Mantis shot off during the 5 seconds of a 'rush.

I notice a lot of peoples ideas about what is effective or not comes down to the placebo effect.

themaxzero wrote...

Its all proportional. At the same level the Infilitrator has what Rank 1/2 Cloak and Rank 1 Passive (30% slow)?

I'm sure 0-20% damage bonus and 0-30% slow makes you an awesome sniper.

I don't think you understand that Adrenaline Rush actually penalizes the DPS of 1-shot weapons like the Widow/Mantis.

DPS does not matter with one shot Sniper Rifles. Kills do. You don't get enough ammo to spray them all over the place.

I would really like the see a Infiltrator video with a large amount of kills outside of Cloak. With 100% 1 shot kills my Soldier still has to be careful with Sniper ammo.

[OneBadAssMother]

@rumination

Ammo drop rate increases based on how fast enemies drop? O.O

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 09 mars 2010 - 04:33 .

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

OneBadAssMother wrote...

Damage Per Second - seems rather irrelevant on insanity, you have to advance carefully, and half the time you're pinned down. Except for melee creatures (which using a sniper rifle on them seems like a waste), enemies dont really advance that fast, geth hunters/vanguards can be easily shot down (you don't get more then 1 or 2 charging at once) as long as they are made priority targets. For Damage Per SHOT - Soldier wins with adrenaline rush.

The loss of real-time isn't really that critical. Had Tali being cooked inside the vents while I had to take care of the drones/harbinger with my widow soldier but never lost her once to time.

I agree that you have to advance carefully, but you make it sound like you also have to advance slowly.
The faster you can advance, the more ammo you pick up, the less enemies you face, and the less times you'll be pinned down.

Yeah but there is a limit. Sure there are a few areas you cut a few enemies but there is a lot of places you can't. If you are taking Sniper shots outside of Cloak you are just not going to have the bullets.

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...
DPS does not matter with one shot Sniper Rifles. Kills do. You don't get enough ammo to spray them all over the place.

I would really like the see a Infiltrator video with a large amount of kills outside of Cloak. With 100% 1 shot kills my Soldier still has to be careful with Sniper ammo.

Done.
Didn't even have an ammo type up until halfway through the battle... not that it would have mattered.

OneBadAssMother wrote...

@rumination

Ammo drop rate increases based on how fast enemies drop? O.O

If you hang back all the time you're not going to be picking any ammo up, hence; the quicker you advance the more ammo you pick up.

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...
DPS does not matter with one shot Sniper Rifles. Kills do. You don't get enough ammo to spray them all over the place.

I would really like the see a Infiltrator video with a large amount of kills outside of Cloak. With 100% 1 shot kills my Soldier still has to be careful with Sniper ammo.

Done.
Didn't even have an ammo type up until halfway through the battle... not that it would have mattered.

OneBadAssMother wrote...

@rumination

Ammo drop rate increases based on how fast enemies drop? O.O

If you hang back all the time you're not going to be picking any ammo up, hence; the quicker you advance the more ammo you pick up.

*Laugh*

Even with the Widow, even with a the perfect ammo power, even in the perfect sniper location you still needed to grab the Ammo recharge mid fight. Lucky that was there hey?

What about pre Widow? What about no Warp ammo? What about with enemies that rush you?



He didn't even need the ammo.

Modifié par themaxzero, 09 mars 2010 - 04:48 .

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...
*Laugh*

Even with the Widow, even with a the perfect ammo power, even in the perfect sniper location you still needed to grab the Ammo recharge mid fight. Lucky that was there hey?

What about pre Widow? What about no Warp ammo? What about with enemies that rush you?

You act as if ammo is scarce.
You also act as if I used Warp Ammo in the vid.
You also act like Infiltrators can't switch to an SMG against Varren/Fenris.

[OneBadAssMother]

If you hang back all the time you're not going to be picking any ammo up, hence; the quicker you advance the more ammo you pick up.

Oh you mean that. Never actually had any problems with widow ammo actually. I still advanced fast enough with rush+widow. As I mentioned before, while Tali was being cooked I still massacred the guardians/harbinger fast enough to get to the consoles in time. There was only 1 close call.

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...
*Laugh*

Even with the Widow, even with a the perfect ammo power, even in the perfect sniper location you still needed to grab the Ammo recharge mid fight. Lucky that was there hey?

What about pre Widow? What about no Warp ammo? What about with enemies that rush you?

You act as if ammo is scarce.
You also act as if I used Warp Ammo in the vid.
You also act like Infiltrators can't switch to an SMG against Varren/Fenris.

Even in your perfect fight in perfect conditions you needed a 100% ammo refill to get through and you say ammo is not scarce.

I mean you even made the video showing the Soldier doing better job Sniping then the Infiltrator using the Viper.

Modifié par themaxzero, 09 mars 2010 - 04:54 .

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...
Even in your perfect fight in perfect conditions you needed a 100% ammo refill to get through and you say ammo is not scarce.

You act as if I wasn't able to finish the fight with just the Widow.
You act as if the maximum ammo capacity on a Widow is 8.

Modifié par rumination888, 09 mars 2010 - 04:55 .

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...
Even in your perfect fight in perfect conditions you needed a 100% ammo refill to get through and you say ammo is not scarce.

You act as if I wasn't able to finish the fight with just the Widow.
You act as if the maximum ammo capacity on a Widow is 8.

Well not without a full ammo recharge you didn't. Add to that the fights don't get much more Sniper friendly then that.

Like I said before you even have a video of a Viper Soldier kicking ass in that place.

Modifié par themaxzero, 09 mars 2010 - 04:57 .

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...

Well not without a full ammo recharge you didn't. Add to that the fights don't get much more Sniper friendly then that.

So which part of the game do you propose an Infiltrator with the Widow will do worse than a Soldier with the Widow?

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

Well not without a full ammo recharge you didn't. Add to that the fights don't get much more Sniper friendly then that.

So which part of the game do you propose an Infiltrator with the Widow will do worse than a Soldier with the Widow?

What is it with you and the Widow? Why not the Mantis, since you use it for a much longer part of the game? Why not without bonus powers too?

[rumination888]

themaxzero wrote...

What is it with you and the Widow? Why not the Mantis, since you use it for a much longer part of the game? Why not without bonus powers too?

Alright.
So which part of the game do you propose an Infiltrator with the Mantis will do worse than a Soldier with the Mantis?

[OneBadAssMother]

Mantis is awesome, only problem is 1 shot per thermal clip, widow gets 2 shots per thermal clip. Even after a battle ARGH!

Alright.
So which part of the game do you propose an Infiltrator with the Mantis will do worse than a Soldier with the Mantis?

Actually there is one spot (2nd last battle before human reaper), similar scenario to your vid. However, in my playthrough for some weird reason - they DIDNT DROP ANY AMMO! And there's no ammo pickups there enough. But perhaps that's because half of them got thrown off the platforms once their barriers were down.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 09 mars 2010 - 05:05 .

[themaxzero]

rumination888 wrote...

themaxzero wrote...

What is it with you and the Widow? Why not the Mantis, since you use it for a much longer part of the game? Why not without bonus powers too?

Alright.
So which part of the game do you propose an Infiltrator with the Mantis will do worse than a Soldier with the Mantis?

Well pretty much any area pre the Infiltrator getting enough points to get his passive going. Mordins recruitment with the regenning Krogan and Vorcha (pretty much any Bloodpact area). Any place with lots of Barriers as well. To top it off the Soldier gets to pick up his Widow in Dantius Towers except it's called the Viper.

The Soldier is better against Armour and Health pre Viper and everything post Viper. The Infiltrator only catches up when they get the Widow.

[OneBadAssMother]

To top it off the Soldier gets to pick up his Widow in Dantius Towers except it's called the Viper.

??

[GiroX-]

Well, in Insanity mode, a Assassin Cloak/Widow/Heavy Warp Ammo still only takes the Harbinger's Barrier down to half. The Infiltrator excels in striping armor, which it can 1 shot a harbinger with full armor.



Dont get me wrong, the Infiltrator is my favorite class and the second easiest class to beat insanity with, but the Soldier is still best. HAR> Cloak and AR, sniper, and shotgun > incinerate or Ai hacking.

[OneBadAssMother]

Prefer 2-shoting Harbinger then 3-shoting him.



Infiltrator is the class of my first character from ME1 to ME2, and also my favourite. But for maximum damage with the widow, soldier is unfortunately... the way to go =(