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The "No support threads" support thread


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#101
Corporal Quarian

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

The deaths were all interchangeable and were not character-specific.

Someone *might* die at point A, B, C, and D, etc.

So...how does this define the story? Anyone could be alive, just as much as they could be dead.

so it doesn't change or hurt the story at all to write that character in as possibly being alive, and therefore being a squadmate option.

]

Please respond.


There are also threads about Joker, and other characters. Indeed, you can keep everyone alive, but maybe this isn't the case in ME3


As of everything we know, and has been revealed, noone was "canon" to die. Death was completely optional. If it was part of the story that someone in particular died, it would have been like virmire.

I.E. either Legion or Tali had to die in the vents. That is a scenario in which it breaks immersion to have them as a potential squaddie. why? because one of them HAD to die. You wouldn't be able to get around it.

This is not the case. It is quite easy to keep everyone alive, and it is obviously the GOAL to keep everyone alive.

Again, please explain how writing out a potential surviving squadmate breaks immersion. You can simply just NOT have them if they are dead in your save.


If bioware listens to the threads, there won't be any choices like in Virmire, because it pisses a lot of fans of.


1. It's generally a bad idea to ****** fans off if you're a company trying to sell a product. Just sayin'.

2. THERE ARE ALREADY NO VIRMIRE-TYPE CHOICES IN ME2. Therefore, it does NOT hurt the story to write in OPTIONAL continuation of a squadmate, IF they survived in your save.


I don't think you get my point. Let's say, you can have Tali as squadmate in ME3, but at one event she sacrifises herself to save the Flotilla (in an epic way of course). At least, this was Biowares plan, before there was this thread counting 2000 pages of people stating that they loved Tali, want her as squadmate in ME3 and, of course, want her to survive ME3.

So they remove this epic part of the story, just for the sake of keeping fans happy. I personally don't want this, I want what Bioware thinks is best for the story.


The thread is about Tali continuing INTO ME3, not past.

I am fine with the whole sacrifice thing; as long as it is optional and a player choice.

That is the point of it. It is not a linear story, and not meant to be.

This means that if Bioware wanted to do that, that would be fine; if the outcome depends on the player's choices.

Simply having something that major happen, without player input or influence, goes against what Bioware has and have said many times what they want to do.

It is the player's story.

If you think it makes sense for Tali to sacrifice herself in your story, then do so.

I simply want an alternative choice.

This is not unreasonable, or immersion breaking. Because the alternative only affects my particular story.


Well put. This is what I was trying to say

#102
Biotic_Warlock

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I think a picture with a caption saying

"This thread has been hijacked by mercs" will be appropriate.

#103
Anhihi

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IMO it's still Biowares story, not the players. But I see your point.

Modifié par Anhihi, 21 février 2010 - 02:18 .


#104
Corporal Quarian

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Anhihi wrote...

IMO it's still Biowares story, not the players.


And that, is where you and most of the fanbase differ.

In an RPG, the player makes choices that determine outcomes of events, and it changes the story, making it the players story.

Modifié par Corporal Quarian, 21 février 2010 - 02:19 .


#105
Anhihi

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edit: meh thought I coudnt edit my previous post but it just took a few minutes

Modifié par Anhihi, 21 février 2010 - 02:21 .


#106
KainrycKarr

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Anhihi wrote...

IMO it's still Biowares story, not the players. But I see your point.


But Bioware has SAID it's the player's story. And their previous games have held to this. Virmire was the player's choice. As was saving the council/sacrificing human lives.

Why should, say, Tali sacrificing herself be FORCED on fans who DON'T want that detail in their story? It does not affect YOUR story. Only MINE.

#107
The Angry One

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Quote pyramids give me vertigo.

#108
Anhihi

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But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..

#109
KainrycKarr

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Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?

#110
Anhihi

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Gah, refreshing this page makes me wanna talk on IRC or something :)

#111
mabalogna

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I want to take this opportunity to get all y'all lovers of squad mates to come and show your love and appreciation for my Boy Zaeed.

Because if Zaeeds got your back, you should get his back!


#112
KainrycKarr

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mabalogna wrote...

I want to take this opportunity to get all y'all lovers of squad mates to come and show your love and appreciation for my Boy Zaeed.
Because if Zaeeds got your back, you should get his back!


Sure, why not. Charge!

#113
Anhihi

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?


Choices are okay of course, i'm just hoping that Bioware wont let those threads influence those choices outcome bigtime.

#114
Madecologist

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Anhihi wrote...

I don't think you get my point. Let's say, you can have Tali as squadmate in ME3, but at one event she sacrifises herself to save the Flotilla (in an epic way of course). At least, this was Biowares plan, before there was this thread counting 2000 pages of people stating that they loved Tali, want her as squadmate in ME3 and, of course, want her to survive ME3.

So they remove this epic part of the story, just for the sake of keeping fans happy. I personally don't want this, I want what Bioware thinks is best for the story.


Your point is a little hysterical, I will explain what I mean. Most character fans want their characters to be in the game, not automatically survive it with cherry on the top sundae. If ME3 has Tali explode her self in some awesome story. The bulk of the fans will be okay with it. Only a small few will be upset. A lot will be sad, and many people will go to sleep crying that night. But we won't boycott Bioware.

Also, if such a scene existed. You will have the ability save Tali, and if they want to be extra evil, at the cost of someone else. But the choice will be easy. That is why many people point out Virmire was not a 'real' choice. If you had to pick between Miranda or Tali, you know what will happen. Tali fans save Tali, Miranda fans save Miranda, everyone is happy cause their character survived. Tali fans won't be upset because someone else has Tali dead in their game or vice versa.

Again, they won't have any "Tali dies no matter what" or "Miranda dies no matter what" stories. They never have and never will. Mass Effect lets you be heroic, it lets you pick your own adventure. This was not a JRPG and never was. There is very little scripted main characters dying. Okay, Prestly died, but who even cared about him, everytime ME2 tries to make it sound sad, I laugh my ass off.

Trust me, this is not because Bioware is listening to the fans (or atleast as you claim they do, they are listening to the fans but not blindly). They make games like that. For pete sake, in KOTOR you were able to redeem Sith Ghosts of 2000 years ago to the Light side as a Light Sider. Even their Dark Fantasy of DA:O, I was able to get an ending that was so chirpy happy I nearly puked myself. No really, in DA:O. For reals. Everybody lives and is happy. Both those games are first of their series.

Modifié par Madecologist, 21 février 2010 - 02:33 .


#115
KainrycKarr

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Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?


Choices are okay of course, i'm just hoping that Bioware wont let those threads influence those choices outcome bigtime.


Character choices have been in previous games, Mass Effect included, not harmful.

Did who you sacrificed on Virmire affect how the game ended? no.

Neither should any choice like that. That is how you write a good story, while still allowing player choice.

How does my choice to keep Tali alive in ME2, truly matter if her death is FORCED on me in ME3?

I am sorry, but your argument does not hold water here, in light of Bioware's previous writing of player choices.

You want a good story with a sacrifice.

I want a good story with a happy ending with my favorite LI.

Bioware can, and has before, written a good story that allows for both options.

what you are arguing, from what I can tell, is that that choice be removed for the sake of what YOU think what makes a better story.

Which goes against the idea of Bioware's previous writings.

You have a set skeleton story, and the player fills in the details.

#116
Corporal Quarian

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?


Choices are okay of course, i'm just hoping that Bioware wont let those threads influence those choices outcome bigtime.


Character choices have been in previous games, Mass Effect included, not harmful.

Did who you sacrificed on Virmire affect how the game ended? no.

Neither should any choice like that. That is how you write a good story, while still allowing player choice.

How does my choice to keep Tali alive in ME2, truly matter if her death is FORCED on me in ME3?

I am sorry, but your argument does not hold water here, in light of Bioware's previous writing of player choices.

You want a good story with a sacrifice.

I want a good story with a happy ending with my favorite LI.

Bioware can, and has before, written a good story that allows for both options.

what you are arguing, from what I can tell, is that that choice be removed for the sake of what YOU think what makes a better story.

Which goes against the idea of Bioware's previous writings.

You have a set skeleton story, and the player fills in the details.


/thread

Couldn't have said it better

#117
Eshaye

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Kordras wrote...

People just like to talk about their favorite characters. :P


Yup!  :wub:  We also support better dialogue and interaction with existing members, it's not like most of us want to revive dead members, those I've seen those threads, the main support ones are just about asking for companions to be meaningful in ME3, because honestly ME2 left wanting in that department. 

I love ME2, the combat is way fun, the places to visit while on the small scale are beautiful and vibrant, there's a lot of life in the story telling as usual, but dang it I wanted more dialogue with some of these companions. :(

edit: About those companions in ME2 that could die, I don't doubt we'll see them in ME3 in some way if they survived ME2, and some people are pushing for their favorites to have more screen time. Why not? IMO ALL LI's should have the same amount of screen time and if that's too much work maybe they shouldn't have given us so many to begin with! :unsure:

Modifié par Eshaye, 21 février 2010 - 02:42 .


#118
Anhihi

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?


Choices are okay of course, i'm just hoping that Bioware wont let those threads influence those choices outcome bigtime.


Character choices have been in previous games, Mass Effect included, not harmful.

Did who you sacrificed on Virmire affect how the game ended? no.

Neither should any choice like that. That is how you write a good story, while still allowing player choice.

How does my choice to keep Tali alive in ME2, truly matter if her death is FORCED on me in ME3?

I am sorry, but your argument does not hold water here, in light of Bioware's previous writing of player choices.

You want a good story with a sacrifice.

I want a good story with a happy ending with my favorite LI.

Bioware can, and has before, written a good story that allows for both options.

what you are arguing, from what I can tell, is that that choice be removed for the sake of what YOU think what makes a better story.

Which goes against the idea of Bioware's previous writings.

You have a set skeleton story, and the player fills in the details.


Like I said, choices are okay, awesome even. I'm just a bit afraid Bioware will be influenced in WHAT choices we will make in ME3.

#119
KainrycKarr

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Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Anhihi wrote...

But it's not like you write the story, only make some choices..


And what is tali sacrificing herself? a choice.

I do not want my story to be the same as yours.

Nor does it need to be, logically. Bioware has a history.

Why are you arguing that what you want in your story, to be part of MY story too?

How does making it simply an option hurt your story in any way?


Choices are okay of course, i'm just hoping that Bioware wont let those threads influence those choices outcome bigtime.


Character choices have been in previous games, Mass Effect included, not harmful.

Did who you sacrificed on Virmire affect how the game ended? no.

Neither should any choice like that. That is how you write a good story, while still allowing player choice.

How does my choice to keep Tali alive in ME2, truly matter if her death is FORCED on me in ME3?

I am sorry, but your argument does not hold water here, in light of Bioware's previous writing of player choices.

You want a good story with a sacrifice.

I want a good story with a happy ending with my favorite LI.

Bioware can, and has before, written a good story that allows for both options.

what you are arguing, from what I can tell, is that that choice be removed for the sake of what YOU think what makes a better story.

Which goes against the idea of Bioware's previous writings.

You have a set skeleton story, and the player fills in the details.


Like I said, choices are okay, awesome even. I'm just a bit afraid Bioware will be influenced in WHAT choices we will make in ME3.


We want what happens to our squadmates to be choices.

How does that hurt your story?

#120
Anhihi

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I don't think ALL things should be choices, but I guess there is where we differ.. maybe we should agree to disagree.

You want to have control over the story, I'm okay with Bioware making some choices for me and letting them tell me the story.

#121
chem light

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*slides in risky business style* hey guys. I heard there was waffles!

#122
chem light

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On a serious note(not really), the devs obviously do at least glance at the threads, if only so Stanley Woo can rasp us on the knuckles and tell us to behave....



I mean, otherwise how would you explain Blasto? Or the quarian in Eternity complaining about humans hitting on her (how can that NOT be a reference to some of our forum shenanigans?)



Can't people talk about their favorite characters in their safe little favorite character havens with all their fellow *insert character* lovers and just enjoy each other's obsessive company without someone getting all angsty about it?



Have some pie. It'll make you feel better.

#123
Eshaye

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chem light wrote...

*slides in risky business style* hey guys. I heard there was waffles!


I raise you a waffle shoe! 

Posted Image

#124
KainrycKarr

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Anhihi wrote...

I don't think ALL things should be choices, but I guess there is where we differ.. maybe we should agree to disagree.
You want to have control over the story, I'm okay with Bioware making some choices for me and letting them tell me the story.


The difference is the particular choiche that want taken away; what happens to our favorite character.

YOU CAN HAVE YOUR EPIC TALI SACRIFICE.

I just want to be ABLE to have a happy ending in MY playthrough.

how are you not getting this?

why SHOULDN'T that be up to the individual player?

#125
Anhihi

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Maybe because if affects the story to much, it just HAS to happen?



And BTW, the Tali thing was just an example, Tali is actually my favorite teammate too ;)