114 réponses à ce sujet

[Varenus Luckmann]

The maiden architecht-prothean-expert-turned-vengeful-information-broker.

Yeah. That makes total sense.

[Movodor]

I'm somewhat amused at just how many people miss that Liara was still an adult in 1.

[vigna]

I think it's pretty apparent...now....that Liara had to do some "renegade" actions/activity to get...you...Shephard...back from the dead.

Liara did that. Not Tali, not Ash, not Kaidan, not Garrus, and not Wrex,



Liara is hurting, she is changed, and it is all because she met..you.

She was innocent, clean, and a bit naive. Now she is bitter and vengeful. That is Shephard's fault and he/she should take responsibility. And first you do that by going renegade to help her.



If you don't like sweet characters that's great. Well, she isn't sweet anymore. She is a calculated wreck that Shephard helped make by recruiting or loving her.

[keginkc]

No, you're not the only one. I'm curious to see where they go with it. Although I do think they could have fleshed it out a little more in the game.

[Ulicus]

Everyone's like "but Liara was an archeologist! how can she be like this now!?" is forgetting that she actually spent 50 years as Liara Croft. Her "dedicated research" was actually "Prothean Ruin Raiding".

More seriously, whilst the character change does seem a little much for two years, it makes senes if you imagine that Mass Effect operates on "TV season years". Shepard's been out of things for "two seasons". If I went from Wesley's last appearance in Buffy Season 3 to his first appearance in Angel Season 3, I would "lol" at the writers for having him changed so much in so short a time. Without the time jump, however, it makes sense. As deluded as I might be, I cling to hope that this is true of Liara.

We still don't know what the Shadow Broker did to her and, as for her achieving so much in her new field, for all we know she took over from where someone else left off.Until Redemption is complete... I'm going to hold back from judging anything. Did I like the character in ME2? Yes. I just hope that the transition makes sense.

One thing I was really glad to see go was her whole "I will never use contractions... except when I do, what is going on?" Most of her romance dialog = no contractions, most of her banter/non-Normandy dialog = contractions. It was weird.

Modifié par Ulicus, 21 février 2010 - 03:52 .

[Nozybidaj]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

The maiden architecht-prothean-expert-turned-vengeful-information-broker.
Yeah. That makes total sense.

I think in ME3 Jack should become a quiet stay at home mom and get her tattoos removed and let her hair grow out.
 
Grunt should become a gardener and work on the Citadel to see if there really are any fish there. 

Mordin should give up science and working on the Genophage cure and go on tour as a singing comedian. 

Tali should abandon the Flotillia and sign on with a mercenary band and quickly gain a reputation as one of their most violent and dangerous members, she would of course no longer wear her helmet and smoke cigars constantly. 

Jacob will actually go and get wild on the Citadel and have an epiphany of sorts while laying drunk and senseless in the bathroom of the nightclub, afterwards he actually grows a personality. 

Miranda goes to work as one of Aria's dancers on Omega (wait that one isn't actually out of character).

Joker starts hitting the gym and comes back with a body like Arnold in his prime and serves as the main "muscle" squad mate in ME3.

You see where I'm going with this....

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 21 février 2010 - 03:53 .

[Chuvvy]

It's fine.

[MutantSpleen]

Her personality change makes total sense. She is head over heels in love with Shepard. (It makes more sense if you actually romanced her) You were her first melding. After Shepard, most people must seem pretty dull. Of course she would go to any lengths to get you back. She probably did some bad things to get you to Cerberus.

I will not abandon her, I will remain faithful and help her through whatever she needs. I always saw Liara's inner fire so her new personality does not shock me.

Oh and Liara was 106 she is not a child or even a teenager, still young by Asari standards but no child. I heard an Asari on Illium saying she had just left her parents house and she was 60 years old.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 21 février 2010 - 03:56 .

[Nozybidaj]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Her personality change makes total sense. She is head over heels in love with Shepard. (It makes more sense if you actually romanced her) You were her first melding. After Shepard, most people must seem pretty dull. Of course she would go to any lengths to get you back. She probably did some bad things to get you to Cerberus.

I think it would have made sense and been a good direction if they hadn't gone sooooo overboard with it. 

Her mannerisms, they voice she uses, the words that come out of her mouth, none of it adds up to even be believable for anyone that spoke to her in ME1.  The "direction" they wanted to take her I think "could" have been interesting they just "executed" it very poorly.  It needed more explanation, it needed toning down the "dark end edgy", and it needed relevant dialogue options that made sense for the characters and whatever form their previous relationship took.

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 21 février 2010 - 04:02 .

[Fjordgnu]

I disliked the sheer extent of her change, but as a whole, it's not inconceivable. It's been two years, after all - some hard two years, too. I'm just hoping she'll at least partly return to her former self in the next game. A sort of synthesis of the two Liaras.

[Forwen]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Oh and Liara was 106 she is not a child or even a teenager, still young by Asari standards but no child. I heard an Asari on Illium saying she had just left her parents house and she was 60 years old.

It's not the in-universe facts, it's Liara's ME1 presentation that bugged me. In ME1 alone, she states that she's considered by other asari to be "barely more than a child". Then it turns out she's a virgin. A trusting, wide-eyed girl gushing about idealised love like a teenager. Then you get a chance to bang her. I found her character very disturbing.

I don't like the asari in general. Maybe it's just not the thread for me, but my point that she couldn't possibly respec so quickly and effectively, gaining such influence and standing, still stands.

Modifié par Forwen, 21 février 2010 - 04:03 .

[Nightwriter]

What you all need to understand is that that wasn’t Liara.



It was Matriarch Benezia. In the last moments of her life she entered Liara’s mind and took possession of her body. Ever since then the two personalities have been wrestling for supremacy, turning Liara into a weird, crazy, mood-shifting obsessive lunatic with her head up her ass.



That’s why she never said anything about the old romance. After you left the room she lapsed into a Gollum/Smeagol episode.



“We hates him!”



“No, no, we loves him…”



“No, we hates the humanses! Nasty humansesss! Humanses kill us!”



“No, he is nice to us… nice humanses… we should go withs him, yes, we loves him…”



“No! No, he will distract us from the Shadow Broker! The Shadow Broker… my preciousss…”

[Meicyn]

Nightwriter wrote...

What you all need to understand is that that wasn’t Liara.

It was Matriarch Benezia. In the last moments of her life she entered Liara’s mind and took possession of her body. Ever since then the two personalities have been wrestling for supremacy, turning Liara into a weird, crazy, mood-shifting obsessive lunatic with her head up her ass.

That’s why she never said anything about the old romance. After you left the room she lapsed into a Gollum/Smeagol episode.

“We hates him!”

“No, no, we loves him…”

“No, we hates the humanses! Nasty humansesss! Humanses kill us!”

“No, he is nice to us… nice humanses… we should go withs him, yes, we loves him…”

“No! No, he will distract us from the Shadow Broker! The Shadow Broker… my preciousss…”

I fully subscribe to this theory.

[MutantSpleen]

Nozybidaj wrote...

MutantSpleen wrote...

Her personality change makes total sense. She is head over heels in love with Shepard. (It makes more sense if you actually romanced her) You were her first melding. After Shepard, most people must seem pretty dull. Of course she would go to any lengths to get you back. She probably did some bad things to get you to Cerberus.

I think it would have made sense and been a good direction if they hadn't gone sooooo overboard with it. 

Her mannerisms, they voice she uses, the words that come out of her mouth, none of it adds up to even be believable for anyone that spoke to her in ME1.  The "direction" they wanted to take her I think "could" have been interesting they just "executed" it very poorly.  It needed more explanation, it needed toning down the "dark end edgy", and it needed relevant dialogue options that made sense for the characters and whatever form their previous relationship took.

She was very guarded on Illium, she told you that. She could not speak openly with you becasue she was most likely being watched.  She did whisper something to you. (I am dying to know what she said).  Plus there is probably a lot more than we know going on. This debt she has to repay must be serious.

Overall, I felt old Liara was there, you can see it in her eyes when you first walk in and kiss. Then she basically has to tell herself "No, I can't do this" She puts a mask on and she thinks if she lets you too close, she will fall apart. She wants\\needs to see this thing with Shadow Broker through.

[Nightwriter]

MutantSpleen wrote...

She was very guarded on Illium, she told you that. She could not speak openly with you becasue she was most likely being watched.  She did whisper something to you. (I am dying to know what she said).  Plus there is probably a lot more than we know going on. This debt she has to repay must be serious.

Overall, I felt old Liara was there, you can see it in her eyes when you first walk in and kiss. Then she basically has to tell herself "No, I can't do this" She puts a mask on and she thinks if she lets you too close, she will fall apart. She wants\\\\needs to see this thing with Shadow Broker through.

This is such an appealing interpretation that I find myself incapable of believing it.

[Barquiel]

I was disappointed at the lack of romance development but I don't mind "ruthless" Liara. The comic series (more or less) explains it imo.

scyphozoa wrote...

adult? maybe, at best, by asari standards. but asari psychological development at the age of 100 is probably akin to a 12 year old human. she is terribly immature and while asari standards might list her as an adult, she has never acted like an adult.

Liara is one of the more mature squadmembers you have in ME1. For example, look at how she handles her mother's death; her conversations with the other squadmates...
She acts rather awkward around Shepard, that's all (Shepard is her first love after all)

[Ulicus]

At the age of 40, Morinth had "reached maturity" and was old enough to do a convincing enough impersonation - both appearance wise and vocally - of her centuries-older mother to break out of capitivity and start shagging her way around the galaxy. There is, quite simply, no correlation between how humans and asari mature, either physically or psychologically. It could also simply be the case that the maidan-stage in its entirety is regarded as "little more than a child"/"barely an adult".

Trying to work out where Liara is from "Average asari lifespan = 1000" "Average ME human lifespan = 120/whatever" just doesn't work.

Modifié par Ulicus, 21 février 2010 - 08:33 .

[marshalleck]

Nozybidaj wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

The general direction is an okay idea. Not a great one, but okay. They just went so over board with the "dark and edgy" that it is hard to take it seriously as genuine character development instead of just bad writing.

Oh come on, you didn't think the coffee cup line was like, totally awesome!?

For Jack to have said it? Sure.  It's not something Liara would say though, so no.  Whoever wrote her lines and decided the general direction for the character obviously had no understanding of the character from ME1.

I was kidding. I thought it was a horribly awkward line, not just for Liara (especially for her) but it would have sounded bad coming from anyone.

Anyways, I seem to remember questioning Liara's shift before ME2 came out. All the valid complaints I'm seeing about her new direction, how she went from studious archaeologist to information broker and cold-blooded killer overnight. And Liara fans told me she was always a hard-nosed little scrapper, that I had just read her completely wrong in the first game! <_<

[cutthecameras]

I wanna see how her new self ties in with ME3 before I can say I like where it's going or not. I doubt I'll be disappointed.

[Ulicus]

Maybe the shadow broker stole her "soul". I'm only half joking, too.

[jojon2se]

Come on. In all likelyhood she is supposed to be unconvincing and awkward.



She hasn't become a bad copy of benezia, just a bad copycat -- her flustering at Shepard's overhearing the "have you ever faced..." delivery is hilarious.



Not saying she hasn't become somewhat hardened, but she certainly appears to be half-bluffing herself through the whole ordeal.

[The Enkindler]

About the way she acted on Illium - I do believe at one point that she mentions that everything being said in her office is being recorded and that it is bugged.



She could just be putting an act on because she is being watched... 8-O

[Sharn01]

Ulicus wrote...

At the age of 40, Morinth had "reached maturity" and was old enough to do a convincing enough impersonation - both appearance wise and vocally - of her centuries-older mother to break out of capitivity and start shagging her way around the galaxy. There is, quite simply, no correlation between how humans and asari mature, either physically or psychologically. It could also simply be the case that the maidan-stage in its entirety is regarded as "little more than a child"/"barely an adult".

Trying to work out where Liara is from "Average asari lifespan = 1000" "Average ME human lifespan = 120/whatever" just doesn't work.

They already know that Asari do not age and mature at anywhere near a similer ratio to their total lifespan as a human does.

They arleady know that by 40 most Asari are out of their parent's homes, have their college degree's or doctorate's, joined a merc group, or the Asari commando's etc.

They already know that Liara was mature and intelligent, but was naive because after obtaining her doctorate, she spent most of her life in seclusion.

They make these argument's because they do not like her character, and rather then just say they do not like her they feel the need to make thing's up in an attempt to make her look bad.