73 réponses à ce sujet

[Hejhej1234]

Truly, the "Reapers" are the pinnacle of evolution, almost as Arthur C Clarke describes it.
Probably was the first organic race in the universe to top the foodchain. As their technical advancements progressed, they started to enhance their bodies with cybernetics, soon replacing limbs with mechanical parts, soon conquering aging and becoming immortal altogether. This continued until they were completely mechanized. As progress went on for billions of years they reached a new level of consciousness and undersdanding.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of the universe, and  preserving it for eternity. 

From our ant-perspective, this process seems very alien, ruthless and cruel, but really, is a very generous gift from this spectacular race.

When Shepard managed to get to the collector base and ruin the initial stage of our own salvation, you can understand harbinger going slightly "siiiiigh" 
(Read: "Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.")

Puny humans cannot grasp the big picture. We will learn, accept this gift and do not fear it. The Reapers are with us

[Jimbe2693]

One reaper is many minds, it contains every soul that was merged into the reaper. They offer unity and transcendance, salvation through destruction.

Either that or they're simply big bad robots out to kill everyone

Modifié par Jimbe2693, 21 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[Hejhej1234]

I'm sure to most people, including Shepard(too bad!), it's the second option

[Hejhej1234]

Could I have this thread moved to the Mass Effect 2 Storyline board?

[sunnyfunny]

i dont like it.



i enjoy being soft and squishy with a limited life cycle.



floating in space for billions of years sounds boring.



im out.

[Hejhej1234]

I guess with a true understanding of it all you would be beyond petty urges of the flesh. You would be a god amongst gods.

[Jimbe2693]

sunnyfunny wrote...

i dont like it.

i enjoy being soft and squishy with a limited life cycle.

floating in space for billions of years sounds boring.

im out.

You'll join our cause soon enough...

[Schroing]

I don't think there's any proof whatsoever that you would join the Reaper's consciousness. You're dead, broken down.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

I don't think there's any proof whatsoever that you would join the Reaper's consciousness. You're dead, broken down.

It's just fiction. And so far, it's just my intepretation of a beautiful and multifaceted "enemy"

Who's to say that we know what a consciousness is made of? If its all in the genetic code, then it's probably included in the liquid we're molten down to.
*What if* humanity is only a singular consciousness, with each "individual" interpreting facets of life differently due to memories and environment. When you "die", whos to say you won't experience life from another body (or "platform" as the geth would call it).

[sunnyfunny]

[quote]Hejhej1234 wrote...

[quote]Schroing wrote...


*What if* humanity is only a singular consciousness, with each "individual" interpreting facets of life differently due to memories and environment.
[/quote]

i believe youre reffering to "perception"?

[Schroing]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Schroing wrote...

I don't think there's any proof whatsoever that you would join the Reaper's consciousness. You're dead, broken down.

It's just fiction. And so far, it's just my intepretation of a beautiful and multifaceted "enemy"

Who's to say that we know what a consciousness is made of? If its all in the genetic code, then it's probably included in the liquid we're molten down to.
*What if* humanity is only a singular consciousness, with each "individual" interpreting facets of life differently due to memories and environment. When you "die", whos to say you won't experience life from another body (or "platform" as the geth would call it).

I don't think I'd endorse killing everyone in the known universe on the possibility of a philosophical wondering being truth.

[Hejhej1234]

sunnyfunny wrote..

i believe youre reffering to "perception"?

Perception, awareness, consciousness...

Schroing wrote...

I don't think I'd endorse killing everyone in the known universe on the possibility of a philosophical wondering being truth.

Not killing, preserving. "Killing" is just a requirement in this process
And no, I wouldn't wanna embrace this "gift" either. It's because it would seem so alien and weird to us.
That is probably why the Reapers have to use force. The lesser races in the universe can't comprehend the reasons and benefits at their levels of understanding, so the Reapers do the thinking for them

[Adynata]

The OP makes an interesting point. What if the reapers know more about the finite nature of the galaxy than they bother to say? To them, they are not killing humans, but offering us "salvation" by maintaining our DNA in the human reaper. OR perhaps they kill everyone (except who they deem worthy to become a reaper) in order to protect the galaxy. Either way it is evident that there is a deeper reason to what they do than merely eating us and making babies.

[Zulu_DFA]

The OP is indoctrinated.

[Hejhej1234]

Agreed.
I'm not saying it's the truth, but the fact that you can speculate about their reasons at this depth is proof of some amazing writers at bioware. Very uncommon with games these days.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The OP is indoctrinated.

Hah! I wish 

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 21 février 2010 - 06:44 .

[Schroing]

Adynata wrote...

The OP makes an interesting point. What if the reapers know more about the finite nature of the galaxy than they bother to say? To them, they are not killing humans, but offering us "salvation" by maintaining our DNA in the human reaper. OR perhaps they kill everyone (except who they deem worthy to become a reaper) in order to protect the galaxy. Either way it is evident that there is a deeper reason to what they do than merely eating us and making babies.

Why? What makes you think it goes further than that at all?
It seems clear to me that if the Reapers actually cared in any way whatsoever, they'd attempt to communicate that in some way other than "We're better than you, now lay down and take it."

Not killing, preserving. "Killing" is just a requirement in this process
And no, I wouldn't wanna embrace this "gift" either. It's because it would seem so alien and weird to us.
That
is probably why the Reapers have to use force. The lesser races in the
universe can't comprehend the reasons and benefits at their levels of
understanding, so the Reapers do the thinking for them ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/alien.png

That's a big assumption. Again, what you're suggesting is everybody in the known universe dying. Would they become something more? Maybe. This all stands on the off chance of the Reapers being something that they've never been suggested nor have suggested themselves to be.

Modifié par Schroing, 21 février 2010 - 06:51 .

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

That's a big assumption. Again, what you're suggesting is everybody in the known universe dying. Would they become something more? Maybe. This all stands on the off chance of the Reapers being something that they've never been suggested nor have suggested themselves to be.

Well, they are obviously the top of the foodchain in the universe, they have a grand plan and are going through with it. They don't need our permission.

As Sovereign said: "Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding. There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign..."
"We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing."


From this standpoint and from our perspecive (althopugh inferior) this might seem kind of "evil", morally questionable. But it somewhat explains their actions.

[Schroing]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Well, they are obviously the top of the foodchain in the universe, they have a grand plan and are going through with it. They don't need our permission.

So? Again, none of their actions so far even hint towards them having benevolent intentions. The same with their words.

As Sovereign said: "Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding. There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am Sovereign..."
"We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing."

...Which all means nothing. He's just stating his superiority.

From this standpoint and from our perspecive (althopugh inferior) this might seem kind of "evil", morally questionable. But it somewhat explains their actions.

Their actions are already explained. We're resources to be harvested.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

So? Again, none of their actions so far even hint towards them having benevolent intentions. The same with their words.

They don't have to explain their reasons to us. Also, what we think of as benevolent is not universal in any way. It's just another interpretation.

Schroing wrote...
Their actions are already explained. We're resources to be harvested.

Yes, but to what end and what are their larger motives? A race as advanced and enlightened as the Reapers got to have some greater plan other than being dickwads, otherwise they woyuldn't be where they are today.

 

[Schroing]

Hejhej1234 wrote...
They don't have to explain their reasons to us. Also, what we think of as benevolent is not universal in any way. It's just another interpretation.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened
race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our
dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if
there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one
they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and
thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of
the universe, and  preserving it for eternity.

The above is a description of benevolance.

Yes, but to what end and what are their larger motives? A race as advanced and enlightened as the Reapers got to have some greater plan other than being dickwads, otherwise they woyuldn't be where they are today.

There are two people in a room. In front of them is a ball. One person is bigger, so he takes the ball.
Being a selfish dickwad is how evolution works. Why should they have to have a plan? Why shouldn't they only be concerned with their continued existence?

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...
There are two people in a room. In front of them is a ball. One person is bigger, so he takes the ball.
Being a selfish dickwad is how evolution works. Why should they have to have a plan? Why shouldn't they only be concerned with their continued existence?

They have evolved for billions of years. Two people in the room? More like a god and a cockroach. Surviving aint an effort for the Reapers. They could just move to dark space and stay there for all eternity if that's what they wanted. 

In my world, a race that has come so far, have a grand understanding of the universe that we cant even begin to comprehend, got to have larger things on their agenda than mere "survival". To me atleast, that's a given.

Harvesting an entire race to just to build a new individual in their image just for the sake of... reproducing(?) feels kinda far fetched.

[Schroing]

They have evolved for billions of years. Two people in the room? More like a god and a cockroach. Surviving aint an effort for the Reapers. They could just move to dark space and stay there for all eternity if that's what they wanted.

No, they couldn't. They would eventually die.
It might take a very, very long time, but they would undoubtedly die after a certain amount of time of just sitting there.

In my world, a race that has come so far, have a grand understanding of the universe that we cant even begin to comprehend, got to have larger things on their agenda than mere "survival". To me atleast, that's a given.

Harvesting an entire race to just to build a new individual in their image just for the sake of... reproducing(?) feels kinda far fetched.

Why? That's illogical. We don't really know why they're built in the shape or form that they are, but we know that they're being built and why they're being built - to reproduce. It's illogical for them not to reproduce, no matter what they know of the universe.

An easy paralell would be our harvesting of cattle and other animals. We don't have any higher philosophical plan for them, regardless of our more advanced society and heightened intelligence. They're food, intended for our continued survival and the reproduction of our species. We guide their upbringing and **** with their genes to make them better suited for that purpose.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

No, they couldn't. They would eventually die.
It might take a very, very long time, but they would undoubtedly die after a certain amount of time of just sitting there.

Speculations!

Schroing wrote...

Why? That's illogical. We don't really know why they're built in the shape or form that they are, but we know that they're being built and why they're being built - to reproduce. It's illogical for them not to reproduce, no matter what they know of the universe.

I disagree.
If they wanted to reproduce, just slap together a giant factory and start building. They are out for something else.

Schroing wrote...
An easy paralell would be our harvesting of cattle and other animals. We don't have any higher philosophical plan for them, regardless of our more advanced society and heightened intelligence. They're food, intended for our continued survival and the reproduction of our species. We guide their upbringing and **** with their genes to make them better suited for that purpose.

Great paralell, but again, I think the vast displacement of progress between humans and reapers renders this argument invalid. Humans/cattle are close relatives in comparison.
The Reapers are so advanced we can't even imaigne it.
Machines, to some the final stage of evolutionary progress. I doubt they need us as "food" and "lifeblood". It is clear they harvest us for our genetic architecture. Harbinger even mentions it is our "salvation" during the end of ME2, hinting at some sort of benevolvence, although meaningless and way too alien for us to grasp.


I just don't buy the whole "evil robots" idea, too simple. Not to mention boring! Depth could make it so much more interesting.

[medlish]

sunnyfunny wrote...

i dont like it.

i enjoy being soft and squishy with a limited life cycle.

floating in space for billions of years sounds boring.

im out.

floating in space sounds awesome!

[Tinbad4]

Jimbe2693 wrote...

sunnyfunny wrote...

i dont like it.

i enjoy being soft and squishy with a limited life cycle.

floating in space for billions of years sounds boring.

im out.

You'll join our cause soon enough...

i lol'd