73 réponses à ce sujet

[Schroing]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Speculations!

No, that's a biological fact.
Unless Reapers are unaffected by the laws of physics, they would eventually die.

I disagree.
If they wanted to reproduce, just slap together a giant factory and start building. They are out for something else.

Reapers are a combination of organic and inorganic material. Without harvesting organic material - people, living tissue - they would be unable to create more of themselves. Our galaxy -is- their giant factory.

Great paralell, but again, I think the vast displacement of progress between humans and reapers renders this argument invalid. Humans/cattle are close relatives in comparison.
The Reapers are so advanced we can't even imaigne it.
Machines, to some the final stage of evolutionary progress. I doubt they need us as "food" and "lifeblood". It is clear they harvest us for our genetic architecture. Harbinger even mentions it is our "salvation" during the end of ME2, hinting at some sort of benevolvence, although meaningless and way too alien for us to grasp.

Salvation is just a word without context, in this case. Comic book dialogue. Ignoring that, the Reapers -hate- organics; they could very well just mean that you dying would make up for being flesh and blood in the first blood.

I just don't buy the whole "evil robots" idea, too simple. Not to mention boring! Depth could make it so much more interesting.

If you consider it evil then you're not thinking about it hard enough. Like you've said yourself, Reapers are beyond our morals. Our deaths are nothing.

Modifié par Schroing, 21 février 2010 - 09:09 .

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

No, that's a biological fact.
Unless Reapers are unaffected by the laws of physics, they would eventually die.

Biological? Reapers are machines. And in an vacuum envorinment without any withering factors they are basically preserved indefinitely. 
Also, pretty naive to think we know everything about physics when discussing a race that's been around for billions of years and built the mass relays(which are indestructible btw) to boot.

Schroing wrote...
 Reapers are a combination of organic and inorganic material. Without harvesting organic material - people, living tissue - they would be unable to create more of themselves. Our galaxy -is- their giant factory.

This does not rule out a greater plan. Why assemble themselves in other species' images?

Schroing wrote...

Salvation is just a word without context, in this case.

Wow, you have all the answers huh? Did you write the story?

I just don't buy the whole "evil robots" idea, too simple. Not to mention boring! Depth could make it so much more interesting.

Schroing wrote...
If you consider it evil then you're not thinking about it hard enough. Like you've said yourself, Reapers are beyond our morals. Our deaths are nothing.

Believe me, I have thought about this *a lot*. And this is, again, my take on the Reapers. You don't have to prove me wrong in any way. Until we get our hands on the thrid installment all we can do speculate.

[Schroing]

Biological? Reapers are machines. And in an vacuum envorinment without any withering factors they are basically preserved indefinitely. 
Also, pretty naive to think we know everything about physics when discussing a race that's been around for billions of years and built the mass relays(which are indestructible btw) to boot.

Reapers are not machines. Again, they're a combination of organic and inorganic material.
Regardless, did you go through high school? Do you know what energy is? It's impossible for any machine or living being to survive under any conditions without some kind of fuel source. Impossible.

This does not rule out a greater plan. Why assemble themselves in other species' images?

It's fully possible that they don't have a choice. And no, it doesn't rule out a greater plan, but it also doesn't point towards one.

Wow, you have all the answers huh? Did you write the story?

Just stating facts, maám.

Believe me, I have thought about this *a lot*. And this is, again, my take on the Reapers. You don't have to prove me wrong in any way. Until we get our hands on the thrid installment all we can do speculate.

Speculation should be based on evidence, not just what you'd like to happen.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

Reapers are not machines. Again, they're a combination of organic and inorganic material.
Regardless, did you go through high school? Do you know what energy is? It's impossible for any machine or living being to survive under any conditions without some kind of fuel source. Impossible.

1. Did I offend you in any way? I feel like you should back off a bit. No need for patronizing.
2. You speak of physics in a universe where something called "mass effect" plays a vital role, yeeeah.... I think minor details can be overlooked. A race of this magnitude could doubtless turn any form of matter into energy of any form.
3. Fuel does not necessarily mean harvesting organics. Fuel and reproduction are two separate matters.

Again:
"... pretty naive to think we know everything about physics when discussing a race that's been around for billions of years and built the mass relays(which are indestructible btw) to boot."

Schroing wrote...
Just stating facts, maám.

What?  No you are not, you are making an assumption based on your own interpretation.
I understand, you obviously do not agree with my idea of the Reapers. I respect that. But why do you linger? 
Create your own thread instead of nitpicking mine for flaws according to your own version.
  

[expanding panic]

If that were true and the reapers are trying to help us. Why not come down and be like "Hey we want to make you immortal what do you say?" And if we say no so be it and move on. Don't go to war and kill 3/4 of a civilization.



I think one race built them a long time as a defense or something and lost control of them and ever since then the reapers have been destroying advanced civilization.

[Hejhej1234]

expanding panic wrote...

If that were true and the reapers are trying to help us. Why not come down and be like "Hey we want to make you immortal what do you say?" And if we say no so be it and move on. Don't go to war and kill 3/4 of a civilization.

I agree, they could have a more diplomatic approach, but I guess the victims would have a hard time agreeing to the proposal of being molten down inte genetic paste. And, being as superior as the Reapers are, they probably don't expect anything else. They do the choosing for us, to best suit their masterplan.
Why would they care of the permission of insignificant organics?

In the end, once a race is reaper-fied, they accept it. Because so far we haven't heard anything about Reaper civil wars...

expanding panic wrote...
I think one race built them a long time as a defense or something and lost control of them and ever since then the reapers have been destroying advanced civilization.
 

That was my initial theory aswell. But their origin aside, why would AI so sophisticated keep a motive as simple and crude as revenge for so long? To me, it seems wrong...

That wouldn't be AI, more like static code.

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 22 février 2010 - 12:57 .

[Schroing]

1. Did I offend you in any way? I feel like you should back off a bit. No need for patronizing.

It was a simple question. You seemed ignorant of the fact, high school science is where most people learn it.

2. You speak of physics in a universe where something called "mass effect" plays a vital role, yeeeah.... I think minor details can be overlooked. A race of this magnitude could doubtless turn any form of matter into energy of any form.

Mass Effect respects quite a lot of science - it's not perfect, it misses the beat quite a few times, yes, but still. A lot more than most games. And most games respect "you need to eat things to not die." "Your car needs fuel to start." etc.

3. Fuel does not necessarily mean harvesting organics. Fuel and reproduction are two separate matters.

But it does mean leaving dark space and thus is, most likely, done around the same time as their harvesting is.

Again:
"... pretty naive to think we know everything about physics when discussing a race that's been around for billions of years and built the mass relays(which are indestructible btw) to boot."

It's hardly naive to think that our science in the real world isn't being reflected, on its most basic principles, in a science fiction game made by Bioware.

What?  No you are not, you are making an assumption based on your own interpretation.

No, I'm telling you facts. Like "A is a letter in the english language" facts. The word salvation has no context in that sentence; we don't know what Harbinger considers to be salvation, thus it could mean anything.
That's a fact. Not an opinion.

I understand, you obviously do not agree with my idea of the Reapers. I respect that. But why do you linger? 
Create your own thread instead of nitpicking mine for flaws according to your own version.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." You made a thread for the discussion of your ideas on the reapers. We're discussing it.

[Schroing]

In the end, once a race is reaper-fied, they accept it. Because so far we haven't heard anything about Reaper civil wars...

The only way that would matter would be if we knew that a reaper's consciousness was made up of the beings it was made up of.



Or, really, if we knew just about anything at all.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...
No, I'm telling you facts. Like "A is a letter in the english language" facts. The word salvation has no context in that sentence; we don't know what Harbinger considers to be salvation, thus it could mean anything.
That's a fact. Not an opinion.

The context is not isolated to the sentence alone, it involves everything we know of the Reapers and the indications we have been given up to that point. To me, there are several things pointing to the Reapers having a motive much greater than mere survival. 

To name a few:
- They see organic life as a mistake, an error, an unintentional irregularity. They want to fix it. Conviction, not survival. Grand plan right there.
- The interest in humanity following our display of ability with killing S. I do not believe they fear us... More likely they are impressed/intruiged.
- Reproducing in "victims" image. Pretty huge indicator of respect(possibly) among other things.
- It is stated that a reaper has many minds but a singular will. What else if not the minds of the "usurped" race?
And if our minds are kept intact, reaperdom would be a gift (or a prison).
- Why not eradicate all life? If they actively countered all life at the early stages there wouldn't even be any need to reproduce from a survival point of view.
- Said choice of words.

I'm really intruiged by the idea that they are a race evolved around fixing errors in the universe and preserving a legacy. It's just so awesome. Too awesome to dismiss.

Schroing wrote...
"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." You made a thread for the discussion of your ideas on the reapers. We're discussing it.

Heat? I didn't post this because I wanted any heat. Geez...

The main reason I posted this was not to discuss the possibility of it being true, but rather to share an interesting new perspective thats been itching in my mind lately. 

I got the feeling you were trolling, missing the point and getting stuck at petty details. Constantly trying to bash my interpretation rather than contributing.

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 22 février 2010 - 03:54 .

[Misterza]

What a dumb theory.

[CaptainMorgasmo]

I've always looked at the Reapers as farmers and organic life as crops. It's harvest time... only this time... the corn is packing!

[barbati99]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Truly, the "Reapers" are the pinnacle of evolution, almost as Arthur C Clarke describes it.
Probably was the first organic race in the universe to top the foodchain. As their technical advancements progressed, they started to enhance their bodies with cybernetics, soon replacing limbs with mechanical parts, soon conquering aging and becoming immortal altogether. This continued until they were completely mechanized. As progress went on for billions of years they reached a new level of consciousness and undersdanding.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of the universe, and  preserving it for eternity. 

From our ant-perspective, this process seems very alien, ruthless and cruel, but really, is a very generous gift from this spectacular race.


When Shepard managed to get to the collector base and ruin the initial stage of our own salvation, you can understand harbinger going slightly "siiiiigh" 
(Read: "Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.")

Puny humans cannot grasp the big picture. We will learn, accept this gift and do not fear it. The Reapers are with us

Sir, this unit and the geth Collective would like to inform you that, you, sir, are INDOCTRINATED!

[Hejhej1234]

Misterza wrote...

What a dumb theory.

What a dumb response.

CaptainMorgasmo wrote...

I've always looked at the Reapers as farmers and organic life as crops. It's harvest time... only this time... the corn is packing!

I'm having trouble seeing how this is the only time the victims ever fought back efficiently... Makes no sense.
If anything, you'd think that the reapers would have learned to do their thing by now.

barbati99 wrote...

Sir, this unit and the geth Collective would like to inform you that, you, sir, are INDOCTRINATED!

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 24 février 2010 - 01:20 .

[Schroing]

I'm having trouble seeing how this is the only time the victims ever fought back efficiently... Makes no sense.
If anything, you'd think that the reapers would have learned to do their thing by now.

It's pretty well lined out in the first game - ignoring the fact that we're hardly fighting back efficiently. Everything we've done as of yet has been entirely up to chance, luck. Anyway, the protheans, before they were wiped out, managed to somehow figure out that the keepers were the ones who were opening the portals and whatnot and did something or other than made them answer to the Citadel rather than the reapers, removing the possibility of the relay opening without direct Reaper intervention.

Thus why our generation was able to do anything at all.

[Hejhej1234]

Yes yes, it's probably not very likely the canon version.



But still it's awesome to have an open mind!

[Schroing]

I'm just explaining that it makes perfect sense.

[Hejhej1234]

Schroing wrote...

I'm just explaining that it makes perfect sense.

It's just, with a race so far evolved and with motives (*possibly*) so far beyond our comprehension, "perfect sense" is really just a subjective and flawed expression from our point of view  

[leeboi2]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Truly, the "Reapers" are the pinnacle of evolution, almost as Arthur C Clarke describes it.
Probably was the first organic race in the universe to top the foodchain. As their technical advancements progressed, they started to enhance their bodies with cybernetics, soon replacing limbs with mechanical parts, soon conquering aging and becoming immortal altogether. This continued until they were completely mechanized. As progress went on for billions of years they reached a new level of consciousness and undersdanding.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of the universe, and  preserving it for eternity. 

From our ant-perspective, this process seems very alien, ruthless and cruel, but really, is a very generous gift from this spectacular race.


When Shepard managed to get to the collector base and ruin the initial stage of our own salvation, you can understand harbinger going slightly "siiiiigh" 
(Read: "Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.")

Puny humans cannot grasp the big picture. We will learn, accept this gift and do not fear it. The Reapers are with us

Funny how theyre so good and Shepards gonna pwn them all

Modifié par leeboi2, 24 février 2010 - 02:35 .

[Hejhej1234]

leeboi2 wrote...

Funny how theyre so good and Shepards gonna pwn them all

Knock on wood...

[valsitsor]

You all probably look 2 deep. Maybe the reapers just never had a girlfriend, and got piced off at the world, so they kill ppl.

[Hejhej1234]

valsitsor wrote...

You all probably look 2 deep. Maybe the reapers just never had a girlfriend, and got piced off at the world, so they kill ppl.

Who needs a gf?

Well, atleast it would be an unexpected twist for ME3

[Leonhartx]

I agree with Schroing.



Your theory kind of takes away some of the point of the game.

[Hejhej1234]

May be, but still interesting to speculate. I prefer enemies with valid motives. I dislike stories where things are black and white, good guys/bad guys etc. Because it's just not realistic/convincing.

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 25 février 2010 - 03:07 .

[Leonhartx]

just because your saying the reapers sole purpose is to make us immortal, then go back for 50k years and come back and pick another species, using force just because they dont care to explain it to us, and refuse to give us the choice, because they are so superior, doesn't make it seem any more realistic / convincing.



that's just your opinion, keep that in mind when you discuss this with other people.

[Hejhej1234]

Tip: thread title. Two-letter word. You even said it yourself.

Ofcourse I will defend my own idea when discussing, otherwise what's the point?

Modifié par Hejhej1234, 25 février 2010 - 03:26 .