73 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonhartx]

but you kind of failed at that, It seems like all your doing is trying hard (or not hard enough?) to have a response to everything now.



To be blunt your theory is plain. It wasn't thought out enough, and kind of seems to have little to no relevance(other than the word Reaper and direct quotes) to the game. It's just kind of like your trying to share your own non existant fantasies of a story that wasn't written by you, and then expecting it to be accepted without criticism by the community.

[Hejhej1234]

First off, my theory is awesome! Why do I have to "fail" or "succeed", that is not the point!



The point was sharing a new bizarre and hypothetical take on the story so far; not for people to accept or debunk.



I keep responding because I think it's bad manners not to, be it criticism, praise or comments/other interesting theories; the latter being what I would have prefered.



*Instead* I get a bunch of people picking at details and why my idea is bad and won't happen. Christ.

Next time I'll consider keeping my speculations & thought-play to myself and/or more laidback channels.



!! RELEASING CONTROL !!

[gauntz]

The image of Reapers as good is kind of broken by the fact that the Reapers pull off a lot of sick **** in addition to their main quest of making more Reapers. Turning people into husk, or worse into the walking freakshow that is the Scions. Indoctrinated people lose their individualities, their "souls" (look at the horror in the Derelict Reaper) and let's not mention all the other **** caused by the Reapers (almost wiping out the reasonably good Rachni by using them as tools of war, disrupting the evolution of the Geth by turning them against the organic races.



The whole Reaper ploy strikes me as a fairly cheap trick by Bioware writers. Giving an enemy some higher purpose to create depth and ambiguity is the oldest trick in the book. Loads of fiction and franchises have used it. The popular manga Berserk and Neon Genesis Evangelion for example. The depth is really just a shallow guise, few villains these days can just be evil for the heck of it.

[Zaxares]

gauntz wrote...

The depth is really just a shallow guise, few villains these days can just be evil for the heck of it.

Mostly because the idea of a creature or race that commits evil acts purely for the sake of evil itself is illogical to the point where most people find it impossible to believe. It kind of works in games like D&D or Dragon Age where there are creatures that are living embodiments of spiritual or moral concepts, but in the genre of science-fiction, which is supposed to be grounded in principles of logic and cause-and-effect, it's a hard pill to swallow. The Reapers have to be doing what they do for SOME reason, although the difficulty has always been in giving them a motivation that's sufficiently alien and bizarre while still remaining believable to audiences.

[LOLZAO]

my theory is that the reapers are from another universe where synthetic life had come before organic, much like a contrary to our universe. They are here to make the species of our galaxy immortal in their twisted ways. They want to make us "immortals" cause they know that someday, that the resources in the galaxy will end(i know it is a lot of resources but one day they they will end)and then would be galactic wars for the little that we had left.

So they "save" us from this destiny by preserving our DNA(And why not RNA)and the minds of the species in a reaper shell that resembles the species that were used to make it

My theory on why they destroyed entire species on some cycles is because they could´t create a reaper with then so they were not worthy of "salvation"

And also the reason why they don't simply ask is, who would want to be liquefied into a goo and give theirs minds to make a reaper where you have no body of yourself and your only wish would be to "Preserve" the other species from that Dark destiny that await us all.Of course that some would join the idea but not the necessary numbers to make the new construct and its mind

Well that is my theory i know is pretty bad/lame but it is mine and everybody can have their own and can also disagree with mine

Modifié par LOLZAO, 25 avril 2010 - 02:59 .

[BeresaadSoldier]

Some very good points, imo. But, that's all taking it from our limited, human point of view The Reapers don't have a motif we can grasp and understand. They're beyond our comprehension, so no reason to speculate about them using our puny human logic, no?

[ShakeZoohla]

I'm thinking at this point that the Reapers are creations of some master organic race, or some great force that observes all life in the universe, with the sole purpose of furthering other organic civilizations' evolution. The Reapers are just a limitation that organic civilizations after billions of generations are evolving to overcome.



The reason this game is great is because of its philisophical story, or at least I like to think so.

[Walrusninja]

Would be kind of ... great , if the Reapers turned out to be just what they look like , flying metal space lobsters. How do you kill a lobster like that though?! Dilemna!!!!!

[BigC-VI]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Truly, the "Reapers" are the pinnacle of evolution, almost as Arthur C Clarke describes it.
Probably was the first organic race in the universe to top the foodchain. As their technical advancements progressed, they started to enhance their bodies with cybernetics, soon replacing limbs with mechanical parts, soon conquering aging and becoming immortal altogether. This continued until they were completely mechanized. As progress went on for billions of years they reached a new level of consciousness and undersdanding.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of the universe, and  preserving it for eternity. 

From our ant-perspective, this process seems very alien, ruthless and cruel, but really, is a very generous gift from this spectacular race.

When Shepard managed to get to the collector base and ruin the initial stage of our own salvation, you can understand harbinger going slightly "siiiiigh" 
(Read: "Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.")

Puny humans cannot grasp the big picture. We will learn, accept this gift and do not fear it. The Reapers are with us

HE'S BEEN INDOCTRINATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigC-VI]

ShakeZoohla wrote...

I'm thinking at this point that the Reapers are creations of some master organic race, or some great force that observes all life in the universe, with the sole purpose of furthering other organic civilizations' evolution. The Reapers are just a limitation that organic civilizations after billions of generations are evolving to overcome.

The reason this game is great is because of its philisophical story, or at least I like to think so.

So the Reapers are lead by Hitler and are actually Aryan, and every civilization that amounts to anything, like galactic economy, is actually Jewish.
:D:D

[Inquisitor Recon]

Walrusninja wrote...

Would be kind of ... great , if the Reapers turned out to be just what they look like , flying metal space lobsters

Indeed. Somebody execute the indoctrinated one before he turns into a husk.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

Truly, the "Reapers" are the pinnacle of evolution, almost as Arthur C Clarke describes it.
Probably was the first organic race in the universe to top the foodchain. As their technical advancements progressed, they started to enhance their bodies with cybernetics, soon replacing limbs with mechanical parts, soon conquering aging and becoming immortal altogether. This continued until they were completely mechanized. As progress went on for billions of years they reached a new level of consciousness and undersdanding.

They are above having enemies. They are a peaceful and enlightened race that has taken it on itself to preserve the legacy of our dimension. They check in on galaxies at regular intervals to see if there are any new civilizations worth noting.
Once they find one they welcome that race into their ranks, turning it into a reaper and thereby, granting it boundless consciousness and and understanding of the universe, and  preserving it for eternity. 

From our ant-perspective, this process seems very alien, ruthless and cruel, but really, is a very generous gift from this spectacular race.

When Shepard managed to get to the collector base and ruin the initial stage of our own salvation, you can understand harbinger going slightly "siiiiigh" 
(Read: "Human, you've changed nothing. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. That which you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction.")

Puny humans cannot grasp the big picture. We will learn, accept this gift and do not fear it. The Reapers are with us

So when Sovereign says directly to your face that he's going to murder you all because you're just insigificant insects what he MEANT was... the opposite of that?

[gethspy]

Who's to say that a Reaper retains anything from the origin species, (see DA:O brood mothers) I doubt that every prior sapient race has been a squid. Also with the whole "higher being" part, Cybermen could be considered superior but they are by no means benevolent. Lastly one must consider what happened to the Protheans and the Indoctrinated. That is certainly not benevolent

[gethspy]

Walrusninja wrote...

Would be kind of ... great , if the Reapers turned out to be just what they look like , flying metal space lobsters. How do you kill a lobster like that though?! Dilemna!!!!!

a big ass frying pan, thats how

[gethspy]

Hejhej1234 wrote...

First off, my theory is awesome! Why do I have to "fail" or "succeed", that is not the point!

The point was sharing a new bizarre and hypothetical take on the story so far; not for people to accept or debunk.

I keep responding because I think it's bad manners not to, be it criticism, praise or comments/other interesting theories; the latter being what I would have prefered.

*Instead* I get a bunch of people picking at details and why my idea is bad and won't happen. Christ.
Next time I'll consider keeping my speculations & thought-play to myself and/or more laidback channels.

!! RELEASING CONTROL !!

thats the whole point of theories, for people to analyse and critique them.
:alien:Your reaction is illogical

[gethspy]

Leonhartx wrote...

but you kind of failed at that, It seems like all your doing is trying hard (or not hard enough?) to have a response to everything now.

To be blunt your theory is plain. It wasn't thought out enough, and kind of seems to have little to no relevance(other than the word Reaper and direct quotes) to the game. It's just kind of like your trying to share your own non existant fantasies of a story that wasn't written by you, and then expecting it to be accepted without criticism by the community.

though for what its worth it is an interesting view, and I am trying to have a response to everything now:P

[gethspy]

expanding panic wrote...

If that were true and the reapers are trying to help us. Why not come down and be like "Hey we want to make you immortal what do you say?" And if we say no so be it and move on. Don't go to war and kill 3/4 of a civilization.

I think one race built them a long time as a defense or something and lost control of them and ever since then the reapers have been destroying advanced civilization.

one other example of a fictional race trying to do something like this without our permission, for reference
 

[gethspy]

Misterza wrote...

What a dumb theory.

trolls gonna troll

[SLooPPy JOE]

EDIT: realized quote is irrelivant...

But why do we need to be preserved? Why not let the civilizations flurish and eventually crumble on their own? I think that letting people live life to their fullest and then eventually die out on their own is better than put into a blender and sucked up a toob...

Modifié par SLooPPy JOE, 28 avril 2010 - 04:01 .

[Kissamies]

CaptainMorgasmo wrote...

I've always looked at the Reapers as farmers and organic life as crops. It's harvest time... only this time... the corn is packing!

This. As I've said, the similarity of this setup with Reapers to the Eternal Ones on that unworthy sequel to the Star Control series made me assume that their motivations are similar. Namely:
1. They need us for something, so they leave lower forms of life to evolve new sentience while they are gone.
2. They might be afraid that we evolve past them if left to our own devices for too long. That's why they wipe out civilizations completely. That's also why they leave their mass effect tech behind, so that the technology progresses along mostly predictable paths.

So what do they need us for? The Eternal Ones in that silly excuse of a sequel were hyperevolved beings of pure energy that had halted their development because they were scared of ascending to the next level of existence or whatever, and as a result, had to periodically come back and devour the "sentience energy" of entire galaxies. Silly, I know, but it could also fit the Reapers when toned down to more reasonable terms.

What if the Reapers have no creativity? What if they have reached the pinnacle of their evolution and can't go further? To get new tech, they'll have to get someone else to invent it for them, but they are afraid this someone might become more powerful than them, or prolonged contact with "impure cultures" might contaminate them, or whatever. So they have this cycle of extinction. They let their "crops" get just advanced enough and then come back and harvest the refinements that have been made to their tech.

ME2 put a new angle for this theory. Apparently they seek to absorb the best qualities of their crops to themselves as well. Shepard beat the Sovereign, so they conclude that the humans must be the best this time around and try to assimilate them.

Well, that's one theory anyways.

[Jedi Sensei]

Hejhej1234 wrote...
I just don't buy the whole "evil robots" idea, too simple. Not to mention boring! Depth could make it so much more interesting.

Then all you've got is 'the vilian sees themselves as the hero,' which is simple, boring -- not to mention, almost universal.  Because otherwise you would have to ignore that words like 'evil' and 'benevolence' are terms with specific meanings to the audience.

Interesingly, I just looked up the word 'benevolence' and one of the definitions is "a forced contribution to the sovereign."  [http://dictionary.re...e/benevolence]  O_o

But the general understanding of the word is characterized by some kind of goodwill towards others, if not outright altruism.  The Reapers actions belie their words, in that they are entirely self-serving.  The Reapers do not select a species to 'honor' with 'ascension' based on any meritous or honorable quality, only force the assimilation of those which serve to further the Reapers' purpose, what ever that might be.  A benevolent species is also determined by the means with which it pursues it's end, for as Aldous Huxley said, "the end cannot justify the means, for the simple and obvious reason that the means employed determine the nature of the ends produced."

More to the point, however, you would need to ignore the basic context of the game.  If, as you say, the Reapers are not evil within the narrative of the game then the writers are essentially giving a flying finger to the audiences' notions of morality, and pull the ultimate dick move in countermanding the very 'morality system' at play in the game, which rewards you with 'Paragon' points for virtuous actions that respect the sentience and rights of others to self-determinate.

Modifié par Jedi Sensei, 03 mai 2010 - 12:58 .

[Vicious]

The Reaper story is interesting, but it's pretty transparent now, not nearly as mysterious as it was in ME1.


It is as stated earlier. Unity, transcendence, immortality for an entire race. If you think about it, the meat form of humanity is too fragile given what our minds are capable of. Immortalty by marrying our meat with technology will be our future... if we last can manage to last that long without dying or blasting ourselves to the stone age, cybernetics to correct nature's flaws are an obvious path, virtually guaranteed given enough time.



The Reapers started with one race [or perhaps several] who realized this a few billion years ago, then got lonely and created more like themselves, and the mass relay system so that they could find other worthy races in time, [they had nothing BUT time] and give them the gift through destruction, knowing that in end it makes more sense to give those worthy immortality, than to let them die off in an uncaring godless universe.


Look at HARBINGER's dialogue on youtube. He literally goes through every crew member race and says why they were, or were not, considered.

Quarians were considered, but their compromised immune system removed them from the list.
Krogans were considered, but the genophage and their vulnerability to such things removed them from the list.
Humans were considered for a myriad reasons HARBINGER gives, and were found worthy. And the big and unnamed reason is that obviously, a Human being managed to kill a Reaper. Really, that makes them automatically worth preserving... why else did HARBINGER want Shepard, preferably alive, but acceptable dead, so bad?
Turians were considered too primitive, while HARBINGER has dialogue pauses to indicate he is intentionally insulting the Turian race, they are fairly primitive mentally. Garrus is the exception rather than the rule.
Salarians lifespan is too weak.
Asari have come to rely on other species for their genetic diversity. HARBINGER states this reliance is a weakness.
Geth are LOL. HARBINGER [and Sovereign, so likely all Reapers] really, really despise AI's.


Did I miss any?


So yes, while the whole BAD GUY THINKS THEY'RE GOOD idea is as old as dirt, the concept of the Reapers themselves is fairly original and fun.

Modifié par Vicious, 03 mai 2010 - 09:35 .

[CompositeGNFNR]

I want an Alien reaper, you know with that tail, and acid in it. imagine if this was what saren discovered, you blow it up and then the citidel melts.

[Jsmith0730]

One thing that's been on my mind, and I don't know if it's been addressed in ME2, since I haven't played it yet, but certainly has been brought up before on the forums: even if their methods & reasons for doing so are self-serving, I don't see the end result of what the Reapers are doing as necessarily bad. I mean, they're pretty much leveling the playing field/resetting the galactic table, so-to-speak.

If it weren't for them, who knows what the state of the galaxy would be like today: would it still be a Prothean Empire? Even if that weren't the case, even the Genophage ultimately helped to push back the Reaper "threat". If the Krogan were left unchecked, and ultimately conquered the galaxy (which I'm sure they very well might have), the Reapers would have probably come much sooner to undo their Empire. Without the intervention of Shepard (who, for the sake of the story, is the only person who can ultimately defeat them), the current timeline of Mass Effect probably would not have happened.

Their arrival is really only bad for the people it is happening to. For those who come after, it was an opportunity to progress, really.

(sorry if I just repeated something already said in this thread, I skimmed through the prior pages)

Modifié par Jsmith0730, 07 mai 2010 - 10:12 .