130 réponses à ce sujet

[Graunt]

FiOth wrote...

Graunt wrote...

FiOth wrote...

Graunt wrote...

I only play on Insanity, but I somewhat disagree with the balance factor.  I think Veteran is actually closer to a "balanced" risk vs reward, especially when you consider something like Assault Armor (which while still useful, isn't nearly as useful for the damage/stun as it simply is for protection on Insanity).  And without beating a dead horse even more, some classes end up having less options the more you increase the difficulty compared to others.

I'll have to disagree on that friend. I didn't play ME2 on Veteran at all but after some point even Hardcore was easy - as long as you used Special Training that complimented your class - while Insanity veered towards "challenging". Veteran seems to forgive too many mistakes and - from watching my girlfriend playing - does not even require much input in terms of power usage. It is still fun to play, but too easy if you are an actual veteran from ME. I understand your "risk vs reward" logic though. I just feel like surviving each situation due to clear tactical superiority is a more rewarding experience.

My first playthrough was an Adept on normal, my second was a Vanguard on Insanity...big mistake.  Insanity isn't really an issue now, but when just starting out and learning the classes and maps it's pretty brutal walking in blindly.

Normal to Insanity IS a big change. Had you played ME before moving on to ME2?

Yes, I played the hell out of it which is why so many of the changes to ME2 were a letdown, while other changes were a welcome improvement.  Insanity on ME wasn't challenging as much as it was extremely tedious.  I think in that game Hardcore is where the risk/reward/fun line was drawn.

[FiOth]

EphelDuath666 wrote...

I did the same thing...played the game on normal and next time I played on a different setting, it was insanity. It was quite a change indeed! I didn't expect it to be as difficult as it was, considering how easy ME1 was on insanity. And that's a good thing. I was almost surprised that ME1 on insanity was as easy as it was.

That's one of the main points in my op. ME1 - like most western RPGs - boiled down to getting the best equipment and buffing your char up as much as possible. In ME2 this is not the case. No matter  how well you prepare your squad skill is always required. 

I believe ME2 and Jade Empire are the only games which approach this hybrid of gameplay mechanics in such a successful manner. JE could literally be beat at lvl 1 - IF you had the skill -.

A new kind of western RPG indeed. To imagine that some people believe that BioWare does not experiment.

[FiOth]

Graunt wrote...

FiOth wrote...

Graunt wrote...

FiOth wrote...

Graunt wrote...

I only play on Insanity, but I somewhat disagree with the balance factor.  I think Veteran is actually closer to a "balanced" risk vs reward, especially when you consider something like Assault Armor (which while still useful, isn't nearly as useful for the damage/stun as it simply is for protection on Insanity).  And without beating a dead horse even more, some classes end up having less options the more you increase the difficulty compared to others.

I'll have to disagree on that friend. I didn't play ME2 on Veteran at all but after some point even Hardcore was easy - as long as you used Special Training that complimented your class - while Insanity veered towards "challenging". Veteran seems to forgive too many mistakes and - from watching my girlfriend playing - does not even require much input in terms of power usage. It is still fun to play, but too easy if you are an actual veteran from ME. I understand your "risk vs reward" logic though. I just feel like surviving each situation due to clear tactical superiority is a more rewarding experience.

My first playthrough was an Adept on normal, my second was a Vanguard on Insanity...big mistake.  Insanity isn't really an issue now, but when just starting out and learning the classes and maps it's pretty brutal walking in blindly.

Normal to Insanity IS a big change. Had you played ME before moving on to ME2?

Yes, I played the hell out of it which is why so many of the changes to ME2 were a letdown, while other changes were a welcome improvement.  Insanity on ME wasn't challenging as much as it was extremely tedious.  I think in that game Hardcore is where the risk/reward/fun line was drawn.

I asked because you wrote that during your second playthrough it felt like going in blind.I think that for a person with knowledge of the first game it wouldn't be such a big deal to figure out the changes in class stats and abilities. Don't mean to brag, it just struck me as a strange statement.

[Booshnickins]

incinerator950 wrote...

Soldier and Sentinel are usually the easiest, then Infiltrator and Vanguard are good if you know how to use the class, Engineer and Adept if you know what the hell you're doing.

I got my Insanity play through done with the Engineer. A lot of people think it's a worthless class, but if you know how to use it, it's one of the most powerful ones of all. That Combat Drone saved my life so many times. I'm playing as an Adept right now and I miss that little aggro machine.

[Graunt]

FiOth wrote...
I asked because you wrote that during your second playthrough it felt like going in blind.I think that for a person with knowledge of the first game it wouldn't be such a big deal to figure out the changes in class stats and abilities. Don't mean to brag, it just struck me as a strange statement.

Umm, this game plays quite a bit differently from the first, especially if you played a Vanguard or Infiltrator in the original.  Insanity from the first and insanity in this are vastly different.  Biotics worked on Immunity activated enemies, most biotics don't work in this game on protected enemies.  This game is also even more shooter centric where your own aiming matters more and the heat sinks are a backwards step.  

And yes, trying out a Vanguard right away on insanity was going in blind because unlike virtually every other class, it doesn't have the luxury of shooting/casting from cover to be effective, it has to constantly risk being focus fired on.  I also didn't expect everything to have so much protection or do so much damage.  I already understood how the class would have specific drawbacks going in, but I wasn't prepared.

Like I said, unless you were talking about playing ME on insanity with a new level 1, it wasn't challenging as much as tedious.  I'm also not saying this game is hard, some classes may have it "easier" but anyone can beat insanity as long as they don't do anything particularly foolhardy.  I however don't like playing "slow and steady", there's no reason for that after having already beaten the game twice with watching all of the cut scenes.  Anymore it's just to experiment and to see how fast I can clear areas.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 février 2010 - 06:20 .

[FiOth]

Graunt wrote...

FiOth wrote...
I asked because you wrote that during your second playthrough it felt like going in blind.I think that for a person with knowledge of the first game it wouldn't be such a big deal to figure out the changes in class stats and abilities. Don't mean to brag, it just struck me as a strange statement.

Umm, this game plays quite a bit differently from the first, especially if you played a Vanguard or Infiltrator in the original.  Insanity from the first and insanity in this are vastly different.  Biotics worked on Immunity activated enemies, most biotics don't work in this game on protected enemies.  This game is also even more shooter centric where your own aiming matters more and the heat sinks are a backwards step.  

And yes, trying out a Vanguard right away on insanity was going in blind because unlike virtually every other class, it doesn't have the luxury of shooting/casting from cover to be effective, it has to constantly risk being focus fired on.  I also didn't expect everything to have so much protection or do so much damage.  I already understood how the class would have specific drawbacks going in, but I wasn't prepared.

Like I said, unless you were talking about playing ME on insanity with a new level 1, it wasn't challenging as much as tedious.  I'm also not saying this game is hard, some classes may have it "easier" but anyone can beat insanity as long as they don't do anything particularly foolhardy.  I however don't like playing "slow and steady", there's no reason for that after having already beaten the game twice with watching all of the cut scenes.  Anymore it's just to experiment and to see how fast I can clear areas.

There are differences, I stated as much in the op. I don't think that overheating weapons were in any way better than heat sinks - since the change is incorporated in the lore - and I find the change very innovative, makes the action more enjoyable and adds rhythm to the battle sequences. 

As for protections vs powers you are right, but I think you misunderstood my point. I was not referring to whether or not the classes "play" the same way but to the fact that with some background knowledge of how the various abilities work - and by doing some homework on the second title - you could easily develop new strategies to cope with the challenge at hand. Yes, you need to penetrate defenses in order to Throw an enemy for example but this time around there are more abilities dedicated to keeping your enemies inactive during a fight, something you can use to your advantage. 

All in all - as I wrote above - I believe that the more action - centric approach adds to the game immensely. I can't imagine why someone would like passive stats to contribute more to your battle effectiveness than skill since ME tried to approach the whole tactical cover based shooter gameplay from day one. The way I see it, the first game had problems that were corrected in the sequel via the changes that took place.

That's about it. 

[RighteousRage]

I'd be more impressed with insanity if I didn't encounter some bug or AI mishap every 5 minutes in it, not to mention the CoD-style infinite bad guy waves

[vhatever]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

YR_Lim wrote...

Its hard, but not insane, hopefully AI improves at ME3.

This.  Insanity is the Echo missions of Spec Ops in Modern Warfare 2.  Namely the one with the 10 juggernauts..

That's actually one of the easiest if you abuse the pathing and can headshot with the grenade lancher decently.

[RENEGADEXVIII]

I'd say that balance regarding the insanity difficulty setting is largely dependent on class,as some classes have a lot more options than others as you go up in difficulty.

[Devowra]

Playing through on Insanity was a very rewarding experience. It seemed to value tactical decisions and wasn't unfair in what it through at you, just damn hard.

[TornadoADV]

FiOth wrote...

Graunt wrote...

FiOth wrote...
I asked because you wrote that during your second playthrough it felt like going in blind.I think that for a person with knowledge of the first game it wouldn't be such a big deal to figure out the changes in class stats and abilities. Don't mean to brag, it just struck me as a strange statement.

Umm, this game plays quite a bit differently from the first, especially if you played a Vanguard or Infiltrator in the original.  Insanity from the first and insanity in this are vastly different.  Biotics worked on Immunity activated enemies, most biotics don't work in this game on protected enemies.  This game is also even more shooter centric where your own aiming matters more and the heat sinks are a backwards step.  

And yes, trying out a Vanguard right away on insanity was going in blind because unlike virtually every other class, it doesn't have the luxury of shooting/casting from cover to be effective, it has to constantly risk being focus fired on.  I also didn't expect everything to have so much protection or do so much damage.  I already understood how the class would have specific drawbacks going in, but I wasn't prepared.

Like I said, unless you were talking about playing ME on insanity with a new level 1, it wasn't challenging as much as tedious.  I'm also not saying this game is hard, some classes may have it "easier" but anyone can beat insanity as long as they don't do anything particularly foolhardy.  I however don't like playing "slow and steady", there's no reason for that after having already beaten the game twice with watching all of the cut scenes.  Anymore it's just to experiment and to see how fast I can clear areas.

There are differences, I stated as much in the op. I don't think that overheating weapons were in any way better than heat sinks - since the change is incorporated in the lore - and I find the change very innovative, makes the action more enjoyable and adds rhythm to the battle sequences. 

As for protections vs powers you are right, but I think you misunderstood my point. I was not referring to whether or not the classes "play" the same way but to the fact that with some background knowledge of how the various abilities work - and by doing some homework on the second title - you could easily develop new strategies to cope with the challenge at hand. Yes, you need to penetrate defenses in order to Throw an enemy for example but this time around there are more abilities dedicated to keeping your enemies inactive during a fight, something you can use to your advantage. 

All in all - as I wrote above - I believe that the more action - centric approach adds to the game immensely. I can't imagine why someone would like passive stats to contribute more to your battle effectiveness than skill since ME[/b] tried to approach the whole tactical cover based shooter gameplay from day one. The way I see it, the first game had problems that were corrected in the sequel via the changes that took place.

That's about it. 

Hey, look everybody, it's a FPS/TPS drone telling us how an RPG should be done! I'll stick with my chain casting abilities and the ability to have 3 high DPS dealing tanks from ME1 to make it into ME3. Not worry about having to stick to cover so I crouch and hoping to god my AI friendlies don't get flanked because they react about as fast as a turtle in December and have about as much staying power as a limp wristed computer nerd in a arm wrestling contest.

In ME1, surviving Insanity came down to bring the proper teammates and using the right abilities at the right time. ME2 is just "Cover shoot, waste precious medi-gel to recover health and shields or die, spam overload,incinerate or Disrupter/Incinderary Ammo"

[CatatonicMan]

First playthough I did was an Adept on Insanity. Probably not the best choice to start with.



I found insanity to be a mix of 9 parts tedium and 1 part frustration. Totally drained all the fun out of playing an Adept, that's for sure.

[RENEGADEXVIII]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

I don't know I found the Adept more rewarding on Insanity.. you just have to build your squad around you to be effective and make the squad do some work to set you up for combos and such.

I'd say that's why AI that only does what you tell them to do half of the time and AI that has trouble adapting to different combat scenarios are more detrimental while playing an Adept on insanity than the other classes.Since you're very dependent on biotic combos it really takes your effectiveness down a few notches when your squad-mates can't seem to stay alive for more than 10 seconds making biotic combos largely inaccessible when this occurs.

Also: While the Adept class on insanity is easily doable if you play the class right it feels like the difficulty has more to do with personal limitations (playing with your hands cuffed behind your back due to the inability to utilize all but two powers in your skill set most of the time) than a well balanced yet difficult challenge.   

[Rapamaha1]

I started yesterday insanity on engineer, so far it has been pretty fun and tense, I find myself behind cover allmost all the times and throwing inceniration, it seems to work well and ofc overload on shield + that little drone is sometimes really usefull to draw fire away from yourself, the only annyoing part so far was with a boss who had rocket launcher, heavy mech and spawned krogans, luckily there was a door and even if it might sound lame I only managed to beat the boss by just opening door, throw some **** inside the room and then moving out of doorway, luckily the enemy mobs dont seem to know how to open doors so the door made it really easy fight

[rasblak]

I totally love Insanity too. With the combat and the level design I find that BioWare has totally done

things that are meant for a mature audience. BioWare has brilliantly managed to

mesh combat and puzzle-solving; to the absolute delight of this big fan of the very pleasant surprise

revival that was Prince of Persia The Sands of Time back in 2003.

Beating the Praetorian and its support troops on the collector ship totally made it all worth it

already. I feel that whatever comes next is very much icing and cherry on top of the cake.

[FiOth]

Well, glad to see there is a lot of respect going around for the "Insanity" setting. Thanks for keeping it civil btw people, there are 1 or 2 stupid posts from brainless nerds but hey, those no - life losers are everywhere, there is no getting away from them! xD



rasblak I must say that the Praetorian battles are the least enjoyable imho. The fact that it can recharge it's barrier at any moment turns the battle into a lottery encounter on some occasions and the ease by which the shockwave decimated your allies is - at the very least - annoying. Especially when they feel like moving out of cover.



I suppose its a matter of personal taste though.

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

IMO ME2 insanity is the best highest difficulty setting in BioWare games so far. Still I modded my game to remove unfair player advantages over AI, like HP regen and enemies not regenerating shields and barriers.

[TornadoADV]

FiOth wrote...

Well, glad to see there is a lot of respect going around for the "Insanity" setting. Thanks for keeping it civil btw people, there are 1 or 2 stupid posts from brainless nerds but hey, those no - life losers are everywhere, there is no getting away from them! xD

rasblak I must say that the Praetorian battles are the least enjoyable imho. The fact that it can recharge it's barrier at any moment turns the battle into a lottery encounter on some occasions and the ease by which the shockwave decimated your allies is - at the very least - annoying. Especially when they feel like moving out of cover.

I suppose its a matter of personal taste though.

Get them down to a sliver of barrier left, shoot with Cain, clean-up the last 1/10th of armor bar left.

[FiOth]

TornadoADV wrote...

FiOth wrote...

Well, glad to see there is a lot of respect going around for the "Insanity" setting. Thanks for keeping it civil btw people, there are 1 or 2 stupid posts from brainless nerds but hey, those no - life losers are everywhere, there is no getting away from them! xD

rasblak I must say that the Praetorian battles are the least enjoyable imho. The fact that it can recharge it's barrier at any moment turns the battle into a lottery encounter on some occasions and the ease by which the shockwave decimated your allies is - at the very least - annoying. Especially when they feel like moving out of cover.

I suppose its a matter of personal taste though.

Get them down to a sliver of barrier left, shoot with Cain, clean-up the last 1/10th of armor bar left.

Yup, I know the drill but truth be told Cain takes about 5 seconds to fire which means that you must stay out of cover for that long AND there is a chance that the enemy can recover its barrier during the procedure. 

Modifié par FiOth, 24 février 2010 - 07:08 .

[sonsonthebia07]

FiOth wrote...

Today I finished my second playthorugh of the game on "Insanity". After beating the game on "Hardcore" for the first time during my previous run I was sure that the developers had struck a great balance between leveling choices and a skill-based tactical combat approach. I couldn't wait to start another playthrough and attempt the highest setting.

Delight!

Not only does the game NOT suffer from general RPG "problems" when trying to be hard - like enemies with millions of HPs or absurd defenses - it also manages to keep the player interested in combat by providing more accurate, aggressive and overall effective opposition. After the horror of having to drain an enemy's 1.000.000 shield endurance and then reduce his illogically fast regenerating health (ME - which was much easier btw since you could become an unstoppable tank no matter your class) I found this smarter, more skill-based approach a real joy.

So, well done BioWare for providing a more entertaining experience combat-wise and for dumping the decades-old formula of quantity over quality.

You thoughts?

Gotta love in the first game at level 60 on insanity, walking up to krogan and shooting them 100 times point blank in the face with a shotgun before they die.

The only real difficulty ME1 had was Pinnacle Station on Insanity. Ouch.

[WInd and Rain]

I cannot agree more with the OP. My first playthrough of the game was on Insanity. That means everything was brand new... completely unfamiliar territory and no idea where the enemies were or what they would be doing. So it was about as hard as it could get. It was with my lvl60 Engineer, squadmates were Tali and Grunt. Combat Drone saved my **** over and over again. It was really hard, but not hard as in BS... hard as in good, aggressive, relentless AI.



I had the hardest time with the waves of husks that come at you on Insane. Reminded me of Zulu Dawn at times. Anyway, we beat it, but we had to seriously sweat through it.

[Chaos-fusion]

Finished my first insanity playthrough earlier. Absolutely loved it. Far more challenging than ME1's insanity.

But I swear, I'll be seeing husks in my nightmares for a while.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 24 février 2010 - 07:23 .

[Seanylegit]

Insanity with a Soldier is so fun!