41 réponses à ce sujet

[Athenau]

So, I was experimenting with Inferno  ammo as a replacement for AP ammo on a soldier, which freed up a bonus slot.  I ruled out the shield powers (barrier/gsb/fort) right off the bat because the cooldown was way too long.  Similarly the 6 second recharge powers (reave, shield drain) didn't seem to offer enough bang for the buck.  That left the ammo powers and the 3 sec recharge CC's (neural shock, slam).

I tried going the triple ammo power route (disruptor/incendiary/warp) but wasn't particularly satisfied with it.  On the Collector ship mission constantly switching ammo was too unwieldy and didn't seem worth the trouble.   

Then I tried slam.   I evolved crippling slam because the damage is negligible compared to my weapon damage and the 8 + 1.3 second disable is pretty huge.  And...it worked pretty well actually.   I finished a full run (no reloads), with no deaths.  Here are a couple of neat facts about slam:

1.  It ragdolls both on the lift and on the ground (when they're lying there disabled).  That's a free +100% damage boost for you.
2.  It's pretty much instant so you can slam one dude and shoot another while he's still up in the air.
3.  2.4 second cooldown with the biotic cooldown upgrade.

Bonus skills on a soldier are a tricky choice, because your best skill is adrenaline rush and you want to use that as often as possible.  That makes adding more active skills seem unattractive at first, but I found that low cooldown abilities like slam dovetail nicely with the rhythm of the gameplay.    That is, there are pauses when you have to take cover, or reload, where you don't necessarily want to pop adrenaline rush immediately.  And that's where slam comes in handy.   Shields down and you see some fool trying to flank you?  Slam them.  See an enemy run out of cover?   Slam them.  Soldiers are very good at stripping defenses with their high damage, so it's not hard to find (or make) vulnerable targets.  

And by the time you've reloaded or your shields have recharged, adrenaline rush is ready to go again, so there's almost no opportunity cost for using slam.    As a general GTFO button and another tool for controlling fights it's pretty nice (MUCH better than concussive shot) and it complements the soldier's arsenal surprisingly well.

Try it.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

[apk117]

Intriguing. I would feel too weird using biotics as a Soldier though.

[Athenau]

Yeah it does feel weird using biotics, but you can just pretend that Cerberus invented a way to generate a mass effect field that did the same thing as slam or something. That's what biotics are anyway.

Or you could try neural shock. Organic only, but it does pretty much the same thing and you can get an AoE version (it's funny hosing down three blue suns troopers with inferno rounds then shocking them all into drooling oblivion).

Modifié par Athenau, 21 février 2010 - 05:25 .

[Acero Azul]

I actually liked slam as well, i never got it to level 4, but it was useful.

[Awesome Helmet]

crippling slam is great. it takes out an enemy for atleast 8 seconds, witha 3 second recharge. some would say its better then throw. but with its 3 second cooldown you can spam slam and be equally as effective at CC as an adept or even vangaurd. thanks to global cooldowns, theres no need to play a biotic class.

[CrazyShuba]

Why wouldn't you consider the armor skills?

Yeah, they have a long cooldown, but they can get you out of a tight situation.

I can be near death, and an enemy rounds the corner. Use Fortification, and not only do I have shields again, but I'm more resistant.



Slam, however, is a great skill.

Put it on my Vanguard, actually works well with it.

[Atmosfear3]

CrazyShuba wrote...

Why wouldn't you consider the armor skills?
Yeah, they have a long cooldown, but they can get you out of a tight situation.
I can be near death, and an enemy rounds the corner. Use Fortification, and not only do I have shields again, but I'm more resistant.

Slam, however, is a great skill.
Put it on my Vanguard, actually works well with it.

Shield skills prevent the use of Adrenaline Rush due to long CDs and their ineffectiveness on higher difficulties. If specced for Hardened (-50% dmg taken) doubles as both a DPS and protection skill.

[Graunt]

The second Slam option (the one that holds them in place) seemed like the answer to pull for a Soldier for Warp explosions.  It's too bad it requires so many points though.  I guess if you're fast enough, or pause you could get away with just rank 1 though.

[Athenau]

Graunt:



Hmm, I never actually tried doing a warp combo with them on th ground, but it makes sense.

Why wouldn't you consider the armor skills?



Yeah, they have a long cooldown, but they can get you out of a tight situation.



I can be near death, and an enemy rounds the corner. Use Fortification, and not only do I have shields again, but I'm more resistant.

I find that if I'm in a situation where I can't adrenaline rush my way out of trouble I've screwed up badly enough that a shield recharge isn't going to save me.

[Siven80]

CrazyShuba wrote...

Why wouldn't you consider the armor skills?
Yeah, they have a long cooldown, but they can get you out of a tight situation.
I can be near death, and an enemy rounds the corner. Use Fortification, and not only do I have shields again, but I'm more resistant.

Slam, however, is a great skill.
Put it on my Vanguard, actually works well with it.

Because the shield skills are very lackluster bordering on useless and with a huge cooldown. I believe even a Dev has stated they are poor.

I too have been trying other bonus skills rather than picking another ammo skill which gives a very minor bonus over what we have.

Not tried Slam yet but i did quite like Neural shock and the Inferno Grenade. I find they give a bit more variety to the class  instead of just pressing Ad Rush all the time

[padaE]

It can be useful indeed. And it's awesome.

.

I think that AP ammo is the best choice though.

[Gaidren]

Interesting. I might try this if I ever take my Soldier on a NG+ run.



ArP Ammo/Warp Ammo are just better enough than Incind to make it an iffy choice though.

[Kurupt87]

crippling slam is a very useful skill, 8s cc (around that because of +duration upgrades and -duration insanity uberlolz), and is also a nice ticking bomb to be used by miranda/thane. the only protection skill that isn't completely useless for the soldier is GSB with the dmg tier 4 version, using it pre-emptively gives a (somewhat lacklustre i'll admit) 10% bonus that isn't too hard too keep up, especially coupled with HAR, and is also a "ohsh!timgnadie" button.

[Athenau]

It can be useful indeed. And it's awesome.



.



I think that AP ammo is the best choice though.

I tried AP ammo my first time through. I'm still on the fence. Inferno ammo is -10% dps compared to AP, with the drawback that the damage isn't frontloaded on health. As a bonus you get some splash and can panic organics.



On most enemies I haven't noticed a big difference in kill speed. If concussive shot wasn't so mediocre I would have an easier time recommending AP (because disruptor + AP + concussive > disruptor + incendiary + whatever).

[Ulysseslotro]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

CrazyShuba wrote...

Why wouldn't you consider the armor skills?
Yeah, they have a long cooldown, but they can get you out of a tight situation.
I can be near death, and an enemy rounds the corner. Use Fortification, and not only do I have shields again, but I'm more resistant.

Slam, however, is a great skill.
Put it on my Vanguard, actually works well with it.

Shield skills prevent the use of Adrenaline Rush due to long CDs and their ineffectiveness on higher difficulties. If specced for Hardened (-50% dmg taken) doubles as both a DPS and protection skill.

LoLz  It takes 7 seconds to heal.  While you sit on your ass for those 7 seconds cowering in a corner I'll be fighting with renewed shields.  That means > DPS

[Athenau]

You renewed shields go down in about 3 seconds on insanity and now you've locked out any other powers for 10-12 more seconds.

[Awesome Helmet]

even my power armor on my sentinel gets obliterated really fast on insanity. they help, sure, but there cooldowns are far too long. youll end up just using your barrier over and over and nothing else.

[WillieStyle]

Wouldn't it be better to take Warp Ammo as your bonus skill and bring a Jack as a squadmate.

That way you get a fast cooldown crowd control (Pull Field) without losing out on Adrenaline Rush cooldowns.

You also get nice synergy between Pull and Warp Ammo.

[Athenau]

Well Jack is a pretty terrible squadmate apart from pull (bad weapon selection, no defense strips). So I'm not sure if it's worth taking her just for pull. What's the base cooldown on her pull btw?

[Ulysseslotro]

Athenau wrote...

You renewed shields go down in about 3 seconds on insanity and now you've locked out any other powers for 10-12 more seconds.

Not if you have skills

Modifié par Ulysseslotro, 21 février 2010 - 11:05 .

[Peer of the Empire]

I don't really find slam useful on a vanguard as we rely on charge refreshing our shields and have pull if we want to cc but now I see the point.

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 21 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[Urazz]

Gaidren wrote...

Interesting. I might try this if I ever take my Soldier on a NG+ run.

ArP Ammo/Warp Ammo are just better enough than Incind to make it an iffy choice though.

Agreed.  The only time Incendiary ammo is potentially better really is against Vorcha and Krogan and you are unable to kill them quickly enough when they are down to the health bar and they will start regenning health.

[Atmosfear3]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Athenau wrote...

You renewed shields go down in about 3 seconds on insanity and now you've locked out any other powers for 10-12 more seconds.

Not if you have skills

No amount of skills will prevent insanity level enemies from shredding your shields to pieces unless you play like a coward and sit in cover all day.

Shields are terrible. Period.

[minormiracle]

I went with geth shields and inferno ammo on insanity. Enemies can gun you down faster than you can kill them in a straight firefight, but with the Revenant on inferno ammo and geth shields, you can maintain fire long enough to blast through shields or armor and lock them into panic mode. Plus, armor skills are a great panic button in Insanity considering how much damage even the average peon can do. I can't count the number of times it's saved my bacon, giving me that little bit of breathing room needed to get behind cover without being shredded.

[Athenau]

Agreed. The only time Incendiary ammo is potentially better really is against Vorcha and Krogan and you are unable to kill them quickly enough when they are down to the health bar and they will start regenning health.

It doesn't have to be better. It just has to be good enough to make it worthwhile to use your bonus slot for something else.