41 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulysseslotro]

Widow = 1 second out of cover for a kill if your slow.  In 1 second you don't take alot of damage.  So if someone stands there like an idiot the shield will only last 3 seconds.  However, if they headshot, reload in cover, headshot, reload in cover and headshot, reload in cover; then Barrier can give you 3 more kills where someone else would have been cowering in cover.

Now if I stood there like an Idiot the entire time and did this.  Headshot, get shot up, reload while getting shot up, headshot, get shot up, reload while...dead.  Then yeah I can see how you would think Barrier sucks.

[WillieStyle]

Ulysseslotro wrote...

Widow = 1 second out of cover for a kill if your slow.  In 1 second you don't take alot of damage.  So if someone stands there like an idiot the shield will only last 3 seconds.  However, if they headshot, reload in cover, headshot, reload in cover and headshot, reload in cover; then Barrier can give you 3 more kills where someone else would have been cowering in cover.

Now if I stood there like an Idiot the entire time and did this.  Headshot, get shot up, reload while getting shot up, headshot, get shot up, reload while...dead.  Then yeah I can see how you would think Barrier sucks.

Look, either you're getting hit enough for your shields to go down or you aren't.

If you are, Adrenaline Rush/Charge/Tactical cloak will provide more survivability AND more damage than Barrier.
If you aren't, then you don't need the extra survivability from Barrier so the point is moot.

Either way, trading 4 Adrenaline Rushes, or 4 charges, or 3 Tactical Cloaks for 1 Barrier is a TERRIBLE deal.  Skill has nothing to do with it.

[VirtualAlex]

Some of you guys are looking at shield skills the wrong way. It doesn't matter that it has a 6 second cooldown because you don't need to use it in combat. You can use it 20 seconds before combat from around the corner and enjoy the benefits for most of the encounter. The only time you use it in combat is in an emergency and if that is the case, no other skills would be better than shield. Only a shield power will insta-heal you and allow you to live. Because all of the soldiers other skills (his 1 skill) has such a low cooldown, he will almost always have the opportunity to cast a shield skill and escape.



it's perfect for soldiers.



I am not saying it's better than slam, just saying the CD is not an issue.

[Chillwill]

You are assuming barrier is used in combat though, Maxed out barrier or fort or shield doubles your shield for 60 seconds. The way to use those abilties are not just as oh no buttons, you use them preemptively before going into combat. Or when you are already an inch from death and you have to stay behind cover for a while anyway.



It's there duration that means they are still good even if long global cd.

[Tokion]

Just tried crippling slam. I have to say, the low CD and the long disable companies ARush pretty damn well. I was skeptical about this before, but when I tried it, I can control the battlefield very nicely.



I tried the 'barrier' bonus skills, but your shield dies in a split second in insanity, is not worth the wait most of the time to 'prepare it up'. (This is the main reason I quit my sentinel actually, really hate refreshing tech armor so much.)



The ammo powers always seems to be a waste on a soldier to me.

[aeetos21]

revenant + ap = ownage



I wouldn't spend time with biotics or tech abilities on a class that doesn't benefit from the class skill mastery (short biotic cooldowns for example). there are other ways to play as a soldier that allow you to enhance and use the powers you already have.



and slam will only work when shields/armor/barrier is down. Once that's done, 75% of the battle is already over. but if it works for you, then go for it.

[Dark Slayer1458]

I just use squad AP ammo on my soldier, works well. But ive used Slam before and it was good.

[Dark Slayer1458]

Inferno grenades are totally useless imo...



However if we could throw these grenades without exposing ourselves, it would be alot more useful.

[Nostradamoose]

Well, I used the soldier / geth shield boost combo on nightmare. All I can say is that it was great. I could hold toe to toe with an YMIR mech for a whole "clip" of the revenant with inferno ammo. I would just wait for my shield to go down then reset it while still shooting. In one run, I could destroy the shield, then the armor, etc. Basically, what I'd do was boosting the time I could shoot, sometimes, the redundant shield would even kick in and help me stay up even longer.

So yea, I learned not to hate the shields.

As for slam, it's actually great as well when used in combination with pull.

Modifié par Nostradamoose, 23 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[FFLB]

I had Crippling Slam on my soldier for half of the game, but I found that I barely used it due to the soldier's high firepower. Also, Inferno/Disruptor ammo was already stopping enemies from firing at me, so Slam didn't seem very beneficial, especially since it only targets one enemy. Besides, squadmates handled that just as well. I found the armor skill to be more useful, although I probably should've used the 180 sec version rather than the 60 sec one.

[Tokion]

I found it extremely useful when there are 4+ mercs hiding behind cover and you just can't gun them down because of the lack of cover. You can strip the armor with your squad and disable 2 of them with slam. Then ARush in and flank them to tap them all with inferno rounds.

Nothing is more satisfying to see them dance in flames. >

Modifié par Tokion, 23 février 2010 - 08:03 .

[Athenau]

After playing some more my biggest complaint with the inferno + disruptor + slam setup is how unreliable inferno rounds are at causing panic. On insanity it seems that the chance is low enough that grunt enemies are almost dead by the time they start to panic, and elite enemies are resistant to the effect. Also, dealing with mixed organic + mech groups is more of a pain than it should be since synthetics resist fire.

I'm leaning towards the people saying that inferno isn't a substitute for AP ammo on a soldier. AP kills health noticeably faster because inferno does its damage in the form of a DoT which needs 3 seconds to ramp up to its full +60% potential and inferno doesn't set people on fire enough to compensate.

It's too bad, because slam really is an awesome ability.  If only inferno could pick up the slack...

Modifié par Athenau, 24 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[WillieStyle]

Athenau wrote...
I'm leaning towards the people saying that inferno isn't a substitute for AP ammo on a soldier. AP kills health noticeably faster because inferno does its damage in the form of a DoT which needs 3 seconds to ramp up to its full +60% potential and inferno doesn't set people on fire enough to compensate.

It's too bad, because slam really is an awesome ability.  If only inferno could pick up the slack...

Inferno Ammo is especially bad for a Soldier because it's a DoT that doesn't stack.  So with fast attacking weapons like the Assault Rifle, Inferno Ammo performs very poorly against health. 

I will say that the OP has a good point about Crippling Slam.  The key is the long duration and short cooldown.  It lasts long enough that Adrenaline Rush will be back up before the +100% damage bonus from Slam wears off.  In this case, Slam + AR > 2*AR.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 24 février 2010 - 01:24 .

[Athenau]

Inferno Ammo is especially bad for a Soldier because it's a DoT that doesn't stack. So with fast attacking weapons like the Assault Rifle, Inferno Ammo performs very poorly against health.

Actually this is incorrect. The DoT does stack. That's the only reason I decided to try it out, because without the stacking DoT it would just be a flat 20% per second, which is terrible. But even with the stacking, it takes 3 full seconds to reach full potential, or to put it another way, killing someone with incendiary ammo requires the same amount of shots as it would take with an instant 60% damage bonus, but you'd need up to 3 more seconds for all the DoTs to tick. If inferno actually disabled dudes for those 3 seconds, then it wouldn't be such a problem, but it doesn't a lot of the time so...

I will say that the OP has a good point about Crippling Slam. The key is the long duration and short cooldown. It lasts long enough that Adrenaline Rush will be back up before the +100% damage bonus from Slam wears off. In this case, Slam + AR > 2*AR.

The ragdoll bonus is comparatively minor. Once they're vulnerable to slam, I can kill them at my leisure or chain slam them to get them out of my face for another 8 seconds. It's the instant 2.4 sec CC that I really like. It makes concussive shot look like the piece of crap it really is.

Modifié par Athenau, 24 février 2010 - 01:34 .

[WillieStyle]

Athenau wrote...

Inferno Ammo is especially bad for a Soldier because it's a DoT that doesn't stack. So with fast attacking weapons like the Assault Rifle, Inferno Ammo performs very poorly against health.

Actually this is incorrect. The DoT does stack. That's the only reason I decided to try it out, because without the stacking DoT it would just be a flat 20% per second, which is terrible. But even with the stacking, it takes 3 full seconds to reach full potential, or to put it another way, killing someone with incendiary ammo requires the same amount of shots as it would take with an instant 60% damage bonus, but you'd need up to 3 more seconds for all the DoTs to tick. If inferno actually dsiabled dude for those 3 seconds, then it wouldn't be such a problem, but it doesn't a lot of the time so...

Thanks for the correction. It didn't seem to stack when I used it but anecdotal observations can be decieving.

I will say that the OP has a good point about Crippling Slam. The key is the long duration and short cooldown. It lasts long enough that Adrenaline Rush will be back up before the +100% damage bonus from Slam wears off. In this case, Slam + AR > 2*AR.

The ragdoll bonus is comparatively minor. Once they're vulnerable to slam, I can kill them at my leisure or chain slam them to get them out of my face for another 8 seconds. It's the instant 2.4 sec CC that I really like. It makes concussive shot look like the piece of crap it really is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  The double damage bonus is amazing.  You can kill them "at your leisure" or chain crowd control them, sure.  That doesn't change the fact that while they're affected by Slam, you can kill them twice as fast as you would if they weren't affected by Slam.
Also, I'm not sure why killing something at ones leisure is preferable to killing something rapidly.
Finally, the oppurtunity cost to chain crowd-contolling something are nonzero; particularly when you're facing more than 1 enemy.
The damage bonus duration, coupled with the low cooldown makes Slam very nice.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 24 février 2010 - 02:07 .

[Athenau]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The double damage bonus is amazing. You can kill them "at your leisure" or chain crowd control them, sure. That doesn't change the fact that while they're affected by Slam, you can kill them twice as fast as you would if they weren't affected by Slam.

Also, I'm not sure why killing something at ones leisure is preferable to killing something rapidly.

Finally, the oppurtunity cost to chain crowd-contolling something are nonzero; particularly when you're facing more than 1 enemy.

The damage bonus duration, coupled with the low cooldown makes Slam very nice.

I'm going from my in-game observations of how I used the skill. I found it most convenient to slam one guy and take down another, which means two less people shooting at me. Sure, killing both outright is always better than incapacitating them, but many times that isn't possible.



When deciding whether to use slam or rush I had to ask the following questions:



1. How dangerous is this enemy if I don't kill him right now.

2. Do I need to pop rush to kill him?

3. If yes to 2, can I kill this enemy before this rush runs out?

4. If I don't kill him and my rush runs out, how bad will my position be?



It takes some finesse, but I definitely noticed an improvement over using rush alone.

[ODST Steve]

Slam is amazing.