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[Mobile-Platform-928]

So I romanced Liara in the first game. Yyyeah. Shepard was female, a lifelong military brat who'd never really had time for relationships--maybe a few rolls in the hay, which taught her not to fraternize and helped her fend off the (intensely annoying) Lieutenant Alenko.

And this fascinating alien lady comes along, flatteringly admits she's interested in Shepard, and they have this awkward but beautiful romance in the midst of the Commander coming into her own as a true Paragon and galactic savior and blah blah blah. (I did end up letting the Council die, but that was because I told Joker to concentrate on Sovereign. IT MADE SENSE. D: I'M NOT A MONSTER.) It's all very touch-and-go. Sometimes Shepard finds herself daydreaming about a handsome Turian who hangs out calibrating down on the lower decks, but usually Liara fills her young head.

I did like Liara! She was a sweetheart, completely different from the rest of her race, who all seemed to be backstabbing political opportunists hiding behind a "oh we're just nice blue alien ladies who would never manipulate galactic events in our favor" facade. I was thinking tenderly of said asari when I began ME2.

I got to Ilium, and the first thing I see when I come in, expecting to hug my lost love, is her threatening to flay an innocent client's skin off. And then comes the weirdness, the coldness, the evasion, the sending me off like an errand girl, and these cryptic hints about a "friend" that she "met" that she "owes something."

Well. I did not like this Liara. No sir. As a character she repelled me, not least of all for her one weird moment of emotion where she admitted selling me to Cerberus. She was...creepy. She was some kind of mafioso now, so ensconced in the political drama that defines the asari race she can't think of anything else.

And at first I was upset. Disappointed. I had the same reaction as all the Liarafans, but with one important difference--blaming Bioware and the devs never entered my head. It seemed to be a consequence of the narrative somehow, which was otherwise stellar (up until the Human Reaper looking like the damn Terminator, but I digress.) Even now, I don't blame them. Could they have handled it another way? Sure. Should they have? I don't think so.

I mean, this was powerful stuff! I'd gone in thinking it'd be easy to be "faithful" to Shepard's love interest, but I ended up having to talk to my wife about what I should do, and having her encourage me to move on, because...well...Liara had essentially broken up with me. I think that might've been the idea, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, looking back now.

My Shepard went on to go through the story, discovering a lifelong friendship with a geth, of all creatures, and letting herself pursue someone she'd already been close to, and always valued--Garrus Vakarian. And oddly, his awkward romancing seemed...more genuine...than all Liara's pretty talk in the first game.

After leaving Ilium, seeing that the person she'd loved had become a mafioso and a lowlife who'd cheated on me when I was "dead", she and I had no second thoughts. Garrus meant more. He'd always been there, and he'd been willing to follow me right into hell twice now.

I didn't feel it was poorly written-- I felt like Liara didn't care, and like she'd become obsessed over someone else that she'd loved and lost, and forgotten about what probably seemed like a fling to her. I had no time to waste on someone like that.

Am I alone in feeling that way? Isn't anyone else kind of "glad she's gone"? :/

[Lareit]

I never willingly romanced Liara, but I frankly agree with your line of thinking. There isn't anything left to be loyal and faithful towards. Accept that some people develop in ways that make a relationship incompatible is fairly common throughout life. I still feel bad for the people who wanted to make it work for Liara, but such is life.



At least she didn't stop trusting you, as is the case of Ashley and Kaiden.

[camoboy_19]

I was pretty pissed when I met Liara in ME2 as well. It was another Benezia.. this one just had more connections. I was just glad to have it gone and done with after leaving Illium... But I'm kinda thinking why you talked to your wife about it... It was like a 2 minute idea in my head after i got all the information

[Lareit]

camoboy_19 wrote...

I was pretty pissed when I met Liara in ME2 as well. It was another Benezia.. this one just had more connections. I was just glad to have it gone and done with after leaving Illium... But I'm kinda thinking why you talked to your wife about it... It was like a 2 minute idea in my head after i got all the information

He's married, loyalty and striving through the hardships of life is a common element for him. Thus it's not instinctive for him to go "This is hard, CIAO." at the first sign of trouble.

[cutthecameras]

A couple of my friends actually like the new Liara better, though they didn't romance her in the first game. It was a bit jarring for me as well but I got used to it, it all depends on how you want to see it. Either you're working through this awkward stage, sorta getting to know who this new person that she has become is, or you decide you want nothing to do with her anymore.



Her development is very interesting, in the end I always felt that if I cheated on her I would end up regretting it in part 3. I fear it'll be revealed that all that time she was tracking down the Shadow Broker it was because of something related to you, like, all the while she had your best interests in mind and you stepped all over that with your infidelity, like you couldn't give her the benefit of the doubt or something...



Yeah I think way too much into this sometimes

[Talogrungi]

It definately seems that Bioware wanted to make it difficult to remain "faithful" (if such a term can be applied after one has been a desiccated corpse for a couple years) .. Ash/Kaiden are hostile to the point where most people would simply consider the romance over and move on, and Liara doesn't even acknowledge that the romance ever took place.

I hope that there is a really satisfying emotional payoff for remaining faithful into ME3, 'cos I don't think many people will have managed it.

[Lareit]

Talogrungi wrote...

It definately seems that Bioware wanted to make it difficult to remain "faithful" (if such a term can be applied after one has been a desiccated corpse for a couple years) .. Ash/Kaiden are hostile to the point where most people would simply consider the romance over and move on, and Liara doesn't even acknowledge that the romance ever took place.
I hope that there is a really satisfying emotional payoff for remaining faithful into ME3, 'cos I don't think many people will have managed it.

Heh, my canon playthrough had me not romancing either chr, Ash/Liara.

I specifically went back and romanced Ashley just to create drama for part 3(and to make the reuinion more akward and jarring)

I couldn't betray liara though, she saved your ass, even if her priorities got messed up along the way.

[cutthecameras]

Talogrungi wrote...
 and Liara doesn't even acknowledge that the romance ever took place.

Well uh, she kinda made out with me for a bit.

[Cutlass Jack]

It was easy for me to let go of Liara because I never held on to begin with. The romance with her always felt extremely creepy/pedophileish because she comes off as a very sweet 14 year old girl to me.



Now she's grown into a dark venegful 15 year old. I wasn't angered by this change, but felt even less connected to her than I was before. But at least she didn't ****** me off like Kai/Ash did. She gets points for that.

[Talogrungi]

cutthecameras wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...
 and Liara doesn't even acknowledge that the romance ever took place.

Well uh, she kinda made out with me for a bit.

Pfft, one tiny smooch and a shake of the head hardly amounts to making out.

Her voice has changed too, it's much lower pitched in ME2.

[cutthecameras]

Talogrungi wrote...

Her voice has changed too, it's much lower pitched in ME2.

Well, you're barking up the wrong tree there. I think it's kinda hot. : )

Don't get me wrong by the way, like I said earlier, it was really jarring to have her be almost a totally different person but what I was most let down by was the fact that I didn't get the chance to get to know her again.

[JPfanner]

She didn't sell you to Cerebus. Out of all the things she doesn't say that she should, it seems weird that people can't tell the difference between the words "give" and "sell". Almost like people who think she was handled well either didn't like her to begin with or used the encounter as justification for moving on. Strange that.

[Talogrungi]

cutthecameras wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

Her voice has changed too, it's much lower pitched in ME2.

Well, you're barking up the wrong tree there. I think it's kinda hot. : )

Don't get me wrong by the way, like I said earlier, it was really jarring to have her be almost a totally different person but what I was most let down by was the fact that I didn't get the chance to get to know her again.

I think that's the core of it; in ME1 Liara was the endearingly nerdy awkward chick and now she's portrayed as a hardened and callous mini-Benezia. It's both galling and immersion breaking especially since Bioware didn't even let Shep say a damn thing about the previous relationship.

It's the lack of realism that annoyed me more than anything.

[acManic]

The only thing that bothered me was how much she changed. Like, if her current ME2 character was someone else I would immediately think that they're awesome, however since this is Liara who was awkward and funny in ME1 it was a bit weird at first. Later though I thought the whole "They said they could bring you back..." and the "And when I find the Shadow Broker **zooms into her face a bit**, I hit him with a biotic field so hard that is what of left of his body will fit into a coffee cup" (why do I remember all that ...) was actually kinda of sweet and I didn't mind the change as much. Nonetheless I would like to see some of the awkwardness in Liara come back in ME3.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Good post OP!



I think it's important to realize that Bioware is probably trying to set up something of a love triangle in the third game. Have you fall in love with someone the first game, then in the second game make Shep and that LI have a falling out so that Shep falls into the arms of one of the other 3 choices on the crew. Then, when the third game comes, reacquaint the player with their first LI, show them that perhaps there is a reason behind Kai/Ash/Liara's personality shift in the second game and allow Shepard to pull them back from the dark side. Then the player is faced with two choices and must decide which it is they truly love more.



That's how it looks to be being set up though. We'll see what happens in the end!

[SurfaceBeneath]

Talogrungi wrote...
I hope that there is a really satisfying emotional payoff for remaining faithful into ME3, 'cos I don't think many people will have managed it.

Just a random comment/question.

Do you think that Sheps who don't romance anyone should receive the same kind of emotional payoff in ME3 as those who engage in the romances in one or both games?

[cutthecameras]

Talogrungi wrote...

cutthecameras wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...

Her voice has changed too, it's much lower pitched in ME2.

Well, you're barking up the wrong tree there. I think it's kinda hot. : )

Don't get me wrong by the way, like I said earlier, it was really jarring to have her be almost a totally different person but what I was most let down by was the fact that I didn't get the chance to get to know her again.

I think that's the core of it; in ME1 Liara was the endearingly nerdy awkward chick and now she's portrayed as a hardened and callous mini-Benezia. It's both galling and immersion breaking especially since Bioware didn't even let Shep say a damn thing about the previous relationship.

It's the lack of realism that annoyed me more than anything.

Personally I wouldnt've gone about that first conversation with her any differently. Yes she changed, but she kisses Shepard and goes right back to work. It's weird. I would have been at a loss for words in that sort of situation, so...it was nice she did most of the talking. I warned her not to become what she was hunting, seemed alright to me.

I think Bioware is doing a pretty good job of handling these relationships form part 1 with tact.

[Frotality]

it is quite poorly written, because the sole purpose fo this change in character is a cheap attempt to garner more interest in new LIs by making you hate your old one. i would be all for the threat of temptation in the game, but this is the worst way to implement it. instead of having new LI's seduce you, they instead try to make the old ones repulse you (the same for all LIs). liara, kaiden and ash (if shes your LI) all went way out of character in ME2; but did wrex, the one non-romanceable suddenly go crazy bloodthirsty krogan or timid little pacifist? no, hes the same awesome wrex we all know and love. there is nothing dramatic or interesting about thier change of character, its bioware's attempt to make us not care about them, and i have no idea what possessed them to want to do that. i very much hope they can salvage the mess they made with ME1 LIs in ME3, but the damage is done, so i wont hold my breath.

[sergio71785]

I never really liked either of the romances from the first game very much. I usually picked Liara just because she wasn't a b!1ch. So I had no problems saying goodbye.

[Talogrungi]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Talogrungi wrote...
I hope that there is a really satisfying emotional payoff for remaining faithful into ME3, 'cos I don't think many people will have managed it.

Just a random comment/question.

Do you think that Sheps who don't romance anyone should receive the same kind of emotional payoff in ME3 as those who engage in the romances in one or both games?

Hmm, tricky.

Depends on past history, I'd say. If you didn't romance anyone in ME1 or ME2 then I'd say the big emotional payoff is warranted in ME3, same as if you'd stayed faithful throughout ME2. However, if you cheat in ME2 or choose someone else in ME1 then go change your mind in ME3 then no big emotional payoff.

[Marta Rio]

Frotality wrote...
it is quite poorly written, because the sole purpose fo this change in character is a cheap attempt to garner more interest in new LIs by making you hate your old one.

Or garner more interest in the comic books?  In which all will certainly be explained...

[cutthecameras]

Frotality wrote...

it is quite poorly written, because the sole purpose fo this change in character is a cheap attempt to garner more interest in new LIs by making you hate your old one. i would be all for the threat of temptation in the game, but this is the worst way to implement it. instead of having new LI's seduce you, they instead try to make the old ones repulse you (the same for all LIs). liara, kaiden and ash (if shes your LI) all went way out of character in ME2; but did wrex, the one non-romanceable suddenly go crazy bloodthirsty krogan or timid little pacifist? no, hes the same awesome wrex we all know and love. there is nothing dramatic or interesting about thier change of character, its bioware's attempt to make us not care about them, and i have no idea what possessed them to want to do that. i very much hope they can salvage the mess they made with ME1 LIs in ME3, but the damage is done, so i wont hold my breath.

How awesome Wrex is is subjective, personally I think everyone from the original crew has changed to varying degrees. Those who you were closest to, your love interests, will probably stick with you as the ones who have changed the most because you remember them just as they were very clearly. So I think they did a great job of putting you in the shoes of someone who has died and been absent from their world for two years, I think all of this is sorta the point.

[JPfanner]

Considering the ME2 end game box specifically seems to encourage you to experience additional romances I can't really see them as anything but shallow. How absurd is it going to be heading into ME3 with four LI's and Kelly?

[Talogrungi]

JPfanner wrote...

Considering the ME2 end game box specifically seems to encourage you to experience additional romances I can't really see them as anything but shallow. How absurd is it going to be heading into ME3 with four LI's and Kelly?

Did I miss a threesome option .. !?

But yeah, I think it's pretty evident that ME3 relationships will boil down to:

1. Romanced in ME1, stayed faithful in ME2.
2. Romanced in ME1, cheated in ME2 with . <-- OMG CHEETR
3. Romanced no-one in ME1, Romanced in ME2.

Pessimistically, I can imagine that being flagged an OMG CHEETR  will do nothing more in ME3 than prevent you from continuing the ME1 romance with the LI you "cheated" on in ME2.

Modifié par Talogrungi, 21 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[JPfanner]

Talogrungi wrote...

Did I miss a threesome option .. !?

If you've got all the potential LI's lined up, you can go through each of them in turn after the suicide mission as long as you haven't previously closed off a relationship with that person.  So potentially 1 from ME1, 3 from ME2, and then whatever Kelly counts as.  If they add any more in ME3 then it just becomes even crazier.  I've got the feeling that ME3 is probably going to focus more on stopping the Reapers than the soap opera of Pimp Shepard and their potential harem.