22 réponses à ce sujet

[Mochisuk]

First af all, hi everyone


 

 I would like to bring something important to the discussion.

I play computer games and also read books a fair bit. And I noticed that there are some similarities in the Dragon age universe and Wheel of Time:wub: universe. It was
created by one of my favourite writers, Robert Jordan (RIP). So the obvious one
is for example is the name and characteristics of Blight, which spreads across the
land, bringing the dark forces. Same thing was happening in the book. Then the name
for Darkspawn, in the book is Sadowspawn. Also the Grey Wardens, the heroic fighters
that are extremely skilled in the art of battle and have unhuman characteristics,
are simular to Warders, who act as bodyguards for the magicians, who get their
unhuman characteristic when bonded with them. Also are skilled in the battle
skills and so on. There are also other things.

 

Anyway what I want is to hear what people that also read the book think about it.

Modifié par Mochisuk, 21 février 2010 - 03:00 .

[Mochisuk]

1

[Loerwyn]

Dragon Age, like everything, is influenced by many different book series.

You'll find references to WoT (the description for the Iron Ring, I believe), ASoIaF and other notable fantasy series.

I believe there's even a memorial to Gary Gygax in game, who was arguably one of the most important people in modern fantasy.

[Vengeful Nature]

Mochisuk wrote...



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I strongly disagree with what you said here!

[TonyV]

Mochisuk, Yes agree totally. The world of DA is indeed very like the Wheel of Time. Isn't Loial the educated giant of WoT reminiscent of Sten the art-loving qunari? The Dragon references, of course and there is even a 'Logain' in the books....the Aes Sedai are the Mages and, as you say yourself the Warders are...well, wardens? Good spot....

[radwimp]

Yeah, there are just as many similarities with the ASoIaF series. Maybe not outright name similarities, but a lot of the same circumstances and ideas.

[Mochisuk]

thanx TonyV for acknowledging my vision. I dont blame the guys from bioware, cos they are probably the only ones these days to write something good, but it just right there in the front of me and I dont know. sucks a bit.

[Time Spiral]

Hola,



I have not read Wheel of Time, but I absolutely loved the Dragonlance Saga (Chronicles, Legends, War of Souls, Et al). I also enjoyed the Drizzt series, though I have not read them all.



And just from my own personal perspective and pet peeves, I think acronyms should be spelled out at least once in a text, and preferably be noted as such : /



Wheel of Time (WoT) and Something (ASoIaF). Just a thought.

[Mochisuk]

TIme Spiral, yeah they were a good series, read it in high school, a while ago. Actually back when I was living in Russia, so it was all translated,but still very good. The memorable characters, that what makes the story so interesting, without strong characters its like, sex with the condom.))

[VanDraegon]

I think you are reading too much into it. One could find comparisions to just about anything anywhere if they wanted.



Play the game and enjoy your time doing so.

[svenus97]

Time Spiral wrote...

Hola,

I have not read Wheel of Time, but I absolutely loved the Dragonlance Saga (Chronicles, Legends, War of Souls, Et al). I also enjoyed the Drizzt series, though I have not read them all.

And just from my own personal perspective and pet peeves, I think acronyms should be spelled out at least once in a text, and preferably be noted as such : /

Wheel of Time (WoT) and Something (ASoIaF). Just a thought.

I belive ASoIaF stands for A Song of Ice and Fire

[Sloth Of Doom]

VanDraegon wrote...

I think you are reading too much into it. One could find comparisions to just about anything anywhere if they wanted.

This, seriously.  Next you will be complainging that "Lothering" sounds like "lord of the rings".

Zomg Dragons...D&D has dragons!

[Little Paw]

LotR

Sword of Truth

Thomas Covenant

There are tons of similarities...like any art there are only so many variables and something truly new is difficult to create.

Check out how similar the Firefly/Serenity world is to Mass Effect.

It's a good thing.

[Mochisuk]

well, as per usual.



So no one is actually wants to discus the topic, instead they want to tell you what to do?

No one was complaining, there of coarse similarities everywhere, but maybe create something and at least come up with the different name would be worth praising.

[Bullets McDeath]

Wheel of Time also has a dream world not entirely dissimilar to the Fade. However, I think it's more a case of drawing from the same well than necesarrily aping Wheel of Time directly. For example, Shadowspawn were not exactly Jordan's shining moment of originality, either. The parallell that struck me the most was the Warder/Aes Sedai -> Templar/Mage. Even though the Grey Wardens are closer to the level of badass of a Warder, the Templars are in practice an interesting twist on the relationship between a soldier bodyguard and his magical ward.



I don't think any of it was intentionally lifted, though.

[Jace Surana]

I don't know... there are many similarities with other fantasy setting in DAO, but then again, there are a lot of differences as well. Take elves for instance. In most fantasies, elves are regal, immortal, revered and quite elegant. In the Dragon Age universe, they're no longer immortal, they're certainly not revered, and the ones that don't live directly under human control wander the land like gypsy clans.

Then there are the dwarves. In most fantasies I've seen, dwarves are mostly brash, daring, strong and hearty warriors. For being so short, they usually have more courage and strength than any of the other races. In the Dragon Age Universe, there are a few still like that, yes. But the atmosphere of the dwarven realms was one of snobby, crooked politicians who look down on those born without a "caste" and treat them like dirt. They give the air of pathetic cowardice and arrogance. So unlike dwarves of tradidion.

So really, it's fine to note the similarities DAO has with other fantasies, but it's also worthwhile noting the differences as well. Some things about DAO didn't surprise me, while others were a completely new take on things imo.

[VanDraegon]

Thing is Mochisuk, this topic has been coming up since day one of retail. Yours was certainly presented in a more conversational tone instead of a rant, but frankly the fact remains there is very little originality left in any medium anymore and this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. We are burnt out on the comparison threads.

Modifié par VanDraegon, 21 février 2010 - 05:07 .

[kumanur]

The Warden's In Dragon Age have always reminded me of The Night's Watch from GRRM's Song of Ice and Fire series, The Watch traveled the lands recruiting members for the thankless task of defending the Wall, they took anybody, criminals, nobles etc....



Though the Wardens seem much more respected and able to invoke the Right of Conscription, whereas The Night's Watch had to take the dregs from the bottom of the barrel if that.

[Aldandil]

The Wardens of DA:O don't really have a lot more in common with the Warders of WoT than a few letters and that they are fighting orders. Please let me know if there are any more similarities between them as organisations, because I certainly can't find any.

[TheCapulet]

Jace Surana wrote...

I don't know... there are many similarities with other fantasy setting in DAO, but then again, there are a lot of differences as well. Take elves for instance. In most fantasies, elves are regal, immortal, revered and quite elegant. In the Dragon Age universe, they're no longer immortal, they're certainly not revered, and the ones that don't live directly under human control wander the land like gypsy clans.

Then there are the dwarves. In most fantasies I've seen, dwarves are mostly brash, daring, strong and hearty warriors. For being so short, they usually have more courage and strength than any of the other races. In the Dragon Age Universe, there are a few still like that, yes. But the atmosphere of the dwarven realms was one of snobby, crooked politicians who look down on those born without a "caste" and treat them like dirt. They give the air of pathetic cowardice and arrogance. So unlike dwarves of tradidion.

So really, it's fine to note the similarities DAO has with other fantasies, but it's also worthwhile noting the differences as well. Some things about DAO didn't surprise me, while others were a completely new take on things imo.

Anyone who's ready the WoT series can see through this.  Dwarves for instance, and their entire culture is glaringly modeled after Cairhien.  Even their short stature.  The elves are closely inspired by the 'traveling people' of WoT.  

Ever since Bioware started revealing bits and peices of Plot information, I'd seen the rip-offs from the series.  The game was actually given to me by another WoT reader, because he was disgusted by it, and I agreed with him totally by time I'd finished.

Modifié par TheCapulet, 06 avril 2010 - 08:38 .

[Templ]

TheCapulet wrote...

Anyone who's ready the WoT series can see through this.  Dwarves for instance, and their entire culture is glaringly modeled after Cairhien.  Even their short stature.  The elves are closely inspired by the 'traveling people' of WoT.  

Ever since Bioware started revealing bits and peices of Plot information, I'd seen the rip-offs from the series.  The game was actually given to me by another WoT reader, because he was disgusted by it, and I agreed with him totally by time I'd finished.

You've played through the entire game to see if you'd be disgusted by it? Wonderful. 

[dbkkk]

While I am sure the game draws on many sources, I have to agree with the OP and some of the other posters that the similarities are far closer to WoT than almost any other series mentioned in this thread so far.

Not just the blight but the taint on the darkspawn equates to the taint on Sai'din in the WoT. The whole way magic use is treated and suppressed or controlled. The Fade vs the dream world. Parallels to the Children of the Light as religious zealots and haters of magic users (i.e. Aes Sedai). The origin myth that an ancient empire / civilization unleashes unspeakable evil and corruption by trying to usurp Heaven (or in WoT open the Dark One's prison).

I failed to see the connection between the dwarves and the Great Game of the Cairhien (kudos to TheCapulet for that one), but it is very clear when I look back on it. Funny because DAO was one of the first games that I liked dwarves and found their culture to be interesting While of course excellent in LOTR, I have thought dwarves have been pretty wooden and 2-dimensional in other games / books.

I think there were two or three others strong comparisons I had off the top of my head but I have forgotten them while writing this post (damn you old age!). I also agree that Song of Ice and Fire has some similar concepts (most notably the Grey Wardens). Still for some of the series that have been mentioned in this thread, I fail to see very much similarity at all except through very indirect analogy, but I won't get into that as everyone is entitled to their opinion. Of course WoT itself borrows from a lot of other fantasy works that came before it, but in my mind that isn't the same as direct similarities.

Still I have no clue why someone would be disgusted by Bioware's world / lore. The only part of the lore I found to be rather weak and underdeveloped was the elven lore (yeah I will get flamed prolly but it had to be said) but I look forward to that getting more fleshed out in upcoming plots.

P.S. Thank the Maker they didn't go so far as to recreate Nynaeve and her scathing dialogue (uggh).

Modifié par dbkkk, 06 avril 2010 - 11:19 .

[drewbie77]

I'm in total agreement with Mochisuk. I'm new to the DA franchise with DA2 being my first, but playing through I found the lore/factions totally derivative of the Wheel of Time universe, which was very disappointing. Truth is 9 books in... and I didn't want to be playing a rehash of the themes from those books. Sure it'd be great for the non-Jordan player to enjoy these new and novel concepts, but for me it was tired and a bit of a cop out.

I think some people have mentioned similarities or borrowing from other works of fantasy. But this would be on a cursory level. I mean D&D did borrow its races (dwarves, elves, hobbits) from Tolkien, so in that sense its "derivative". But it doesn't borrow the dynamics of how magic and lore and wonderment work within Middle-Earth. I mean comparatively, the greatest ring in Middle Earth had an effect that made you invisible. That would be like the equivalent of a level 1 spell in D&D. I mean you don't have wizards casting, fireball or magic missile in Tolkien's world, its really not about that overpowered effect, but more about lore and charm and wonderment. So in reality they're really nothing alike in how they feel.

But Dragon Age borrows most of its dynamics from Jordan and modifies it a little bit so as not to be totally plagiaristic. I haven't read the books in a long time, so i forget the WoT terminology but these are the similarities I couldn't help but notice:

-obvious ones like: the blight, dark spawn, mage discrimination, circle of mages, magic being a powerful but uncontrollable and corrupting force, warders as grey wardens, the children of the light as templars
-not so obvious ones, like how warders would adopt combat stances like "Crane on the Wind" which is equivalent to the in-game "stances"
-the children of the light being corrupted at the highest levels by dark friends
-the "fade" being the dreamworld and what happens in the dreams can adversely affect the person in RL
-the mages becoming "stilled" or whatever its called, in-game is called the "calming" or whatever.

i'm sure there's more i'd notice if i hadn't read WoT about 9 years ago... But yeah, no doubt WoT readers with 4000 pgs+ of these exact same themes under their belt, will be feeling a little deja vu or like me, totally sapped from all of these themes...