116 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

dreman9999 wrote...

Um......Liara still loves you....Link

That has nothing to do with a romance from the first game.  Every Shep gets that.

[Nightwriter]

So much dislike for Miranda... she was one of my favorite characters. My only regret was that I didn't get to meet her father. Would've liked that.

[Nozybidaj]

Nightwriter wrote...

So much dislike for Miranda... she was one of my favorite characters. My only regret was that I didn't get to meet her father. Would've liked that.

Actually I don't see a lot of "dislike" for Miranda so much as I see either love or "disinterest".  She doesn't get near the hate that Ash/Jack/Liara get.  Because honestly, even if you don't like the character she still has a great ***.

[ZennExile]

Faust6999 wrote...
2. I actually LOVE jack! She is my favorite female companion in the whole game. She is also the deepest character in the game.

Deep?  You think a stereotypical 15 year old girl suffering from daddy issues constantly oozing off a metric ****ton of angst is deep?  Really Captain?

[Lughsan35]

Frotality wrote...

story telling 101= sidekicks are supposed to be liked, it VILLIANS that should be hated.

you and bioware seen to have forgotten that part.

Really ?? Seriously? 

I hated Bones in Star Trek... his holier than thou humanism always pissed me off...

I hated C3P0 for being a whiny Priss...

Jar Jar Binks I hated for being the worst stereotype ever...

I did not like anything about Most of the Crew of Serenity outside Mal, his second, and Kaylee .. the rest were selfish self involved loathesome people...

I didn't like the priest in the 5th Element, nor did I particularly care for the president or any of the other  supporting cast and I LOATHED Ruby Rod...

So no...its quite possible to Hate sidekicks in games and stories even though they are not the bad guys..

[dreman9999]

Nozybidaj wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Um......Liara still loves you....Link

That has nothing to do with a romance from the first game.  Every Shep gets that.

Yes it does. Regardless If you went with her or not by the end of Mass Effect 1 she loves you.And She made it very clear in ME1. Liara always loves you even if it's unreturned. It was the main reason she got back your body for Cerburus. Yes, she darkernow but in some twisted way she still loves Sheperd

[Nightwriter]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

So much dislike for Miranda... she was one of my favorite characters. My only regret was that I didn't get to meet her father. Would've liked that.

Actually I don't see a lot of "dislike" for Miranda so much as I see either love or "disinterest".  She doesn't get near the hate that Ash/Jack/Liara get.  Because honestly, even if you don't like the character she still has a great ***.

I do. I always see people going on about how they hate her "superiority" or something.

Some people dislike that more even than Jack's aggression or Ash's xenophobia. 

[Lughsan35]

ZennExile wrote...

Faust6999 wrote...
2. I actually LOVE jack! She is my favorite female companion in the whole game. She is also the deepest character in the game.

Deep?  You think a stereotypical 15 year old girl suffering from daddy issues constantly oozing off a metric ****ton of angst is deep?  Really Captain?

Not everyone loves people as complex as real life folks like Doc Holiday or Wyatt Earp in their fiction...

Some people are quite a bit more simple.  Like Morgan Earp.  Easily amused.

[I Vigil I]

The game is definately near perfect in my opinion with only minor flaws as all games usually have.
Will definately be playing this till the next installment.

[sniper1250]

Kreidian wrote...

I can see a great rivalry happening here between Miranda and my Shepard. Shepard was born on the streets of Earth and had to fight everyday just to survive. Miranda also born on Earth but in a a life of luxury, everything she could ever want was provided for her but she threw it all away for the one thing she didn't have, her freedom.

I never got why people keep thinking Miranda was a spoilt rich kid like we have today. Niket insinuates that since he was poor once and Miranda's father had money that Miranda sat around in little princess dresses having tea parties. Then one day she threw a temper tantrum and decided when she left that she would take her sister with her because she could. It doesn't say this in game, just that she got what she wanted but with a catch.

It's far more likely that Miranda was isolated from other children and forced to study/train for most of her life, to see if the genetic tailoring worked. After all, her sister was her replacement, which means she probably didn't preform up to expectations and was probably about to be "discarded" by her father. Yeah she probably had silk sheets and ate off the expensive china, but there was probably an army of tutors, instructors, and trainers there to take up almost all her time. While she didn't have to fight for her food everyday, she would have to prove to her father that she was worthy of living another day. Prove that he didn't need to go back to the drawing board and make another daughter that would preform better than her.

But, since you hate her this would probably not change your perception much. I'm just saying that alot of people seem to forget that when designing a dynasty in a lab, you might need to raise a child past embryo to see if the child is worthy. I would think that each daughter would meet expectations up to a certain time, and then their father would decide that they weren't good enough to inherit his fortune and "discard" them. Since their DNA would give them claim to his dynasty's fortune, there is only one "discard" that would be an option here, and it's not giving the babies up for adoption. This is NOT a trait of a caring/loving father.

[chool77]

nv mind

Modifié par chool77, 22 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[Nightwriter]

sniper1250 wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

I can see a great rivalry happening here between Miranda and my Shepard. Shepard was born on the streets of Earth and had to fight everyday just to survive. Miranda also born on Earth but in a a life of luxury, everything she could ever want was provided for her but she threw it all away for the one thing she didn't have, her freedom.

I never got why people keep thinking Miranda was a spoilt rich kid like we have today. Niket insinuates that since he was poor once and Miranda's father had money that Miranda sat around in little princess dresses having tea parties. Then one day she threw a temper tantrum and decided when she left that she would take her sister with her because she could. It doesn't say this in game, just that she got what she wanted but with a catch.

It's far more likely that Miranda was isolated from other children and forced to study/train for most of her life, to see if the genetic tailoring worked. After all, her sister was her replacement, which means she probably didn't preform up to expectations and was probably about to be "discarded" by her father. Yeah she probably had silk sheets and ate off the expensive china, but there was probably an army of tutors, instructors, and trainers there to take up almost all her time. While she didn't have to fight for her food everyday, she would have to prove to her father that she was worthy of living another day. Prove that he didn't need to go back to the drawing board and make another daughter that would preform better than her.

But, since you hate her this would probably not change your perception much. I'm just saying that alot of people seem to forget that when designing a dynasty in a lab, you might need to raise a child past embryo to see if the child is worthy. I would think that each daughter would meet expectations up to a certain time, and then their father would decide that they weren't good enough to inherit his fortune and "discard" them. Since their DNA would give them claim to his dynasty's fortune, there is only one "discard" that would be an option here, and it's not giving the babies up for adoption. This is NOT a trait of a caring/loving father.

Wow. I totally agree with all of this! You're absolutely right, I think this is exactly what her childhood experience was like. Miranda won me over.


“I was pushed to breaking point, forced to meet impossible demands…”
 
I totally believe this. I mean, look at how she acts. She’s bitter and thinks the entire meaning of her existence is contained in the function she performs for others.
 
“You don’t understand, Shepard. I wasn’t the first daughter he made. I was just the first one he kept.”
 
I was like omg I had no idea, that’s way sick. That really put it in perspective for me. I started wondering how many daughters he’d made exactly and what he did with them if he didn’t “keep” them.
 
“It doesn’t matter what I want. What matters is what’s right for Oriana.”
 
Loved this line. She really did love her sister. It was sad and endearing to me at the same time that she thought the best she had to give to her sister was to make sure her own life never touched Oriana’s, that Oriana stayed far away from that world, and from her.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Good post OP. I am in total agreement, though I don't think you should have titled your post about "everyone hating" certain portions of ME2. That's merely a case of a few very loud personalities on this forum upsetting the noise to signal balance.

[Menagra]

I felt that most of the characters were handled really well.

I wanted more interaction with the LI from ME1, but I understood how Kaiden/Ashley acted. Liara I can understand, though I didn't like it personally. She was a little too cold for my liking, but I understand that she was OBSESSED with revenge on the SB.

Jacob is cold too, until you finish his loyalty quest (unless you are trying to romance him from the start), but after that he's a great character

I like Jack as a character, but she still seems to treat the people she trusts like crap (which is fine). I am a little upset that you can only get her to change significantly if you are a paragon male and romancing her, which I sadly haven't been able to experience yet.

Grunt becomes kind of boring after his loyalty quest, but it makes sense.

I liked Miranda as a character, though didn't like her personality. The big problem I had though is that after you help her with her loyalty quest, she will essentially only talk to you one more time and then just says that she's busy for the rest of the game. Again, I haven't experienced the romance with her so i'm missing that.

Everyone else I had little to no problems with.

[Nightwriter]

infraredman wrote...

I liked Miranda as a character, though didn't like her personality. The big problem I had though is that after you help her with her loyalty quest, she will essentially only talk to you one more time and then just says that she's busy for the rest of the game. Again, I haven't experienced the romance with her so i'm missing that.
Everyone else I had little to no problems with.

I loved watching Miranda struggle with her feelings toward you. She was in total denial of her emotions. Especially after the pre-engine room kiss scene.

"What the hell was that? That - that didn't mean anything. It was a mistake."
Riiiiiight.

[Ski Mask Wei]

While I thought the main story could have used more meat, to me Bioware really upped the ante with loyalty missions. They probably had the best writing I've ever seen in a video game. I hope they don't lame out and continue the trend in part 3.



This is where video games need to go to reach the artistic levels of books and film.

[dantesfire10]

haha suprised the living sh*t outta me when constantly putting miranda down resulted in a makeout sesh.



oh and OP, good post, i agree! ;-]

[StowyMcStowstow]

Jack is one of the least mature parts of the game. She's arrogant, curses all over the place, and talks about herself way too much.



Also, Liara could have been handled far better than she was. I did in fact become quite endeared to Liara, but I never got the vibe that this "friend" was any closer that Liara and Shepard were. Besides, if she gave Shepard to Cerberus specifically because they could revive him, why would she go after someone else? I would be alive, and pissed off because my girl, knowing she had given me to Cerberus, who had the sole intent of bringing me back to life and she knew it, took off with some guy simply because they took to long. WTF? No.

[bobsmyuncle]

Kreidian wrote...
Jack
So now people are afraid of strong personalities in a woman? Even though at least half of the players are actually playing one?
Ok I jest, but it's funny that people would find her offensive, since that's kinda the whole point. She's a criminal, of the violent Homicidal Maniac variety. She lived in a prison where the most innocent man there killed about twenty people and destroyed a habitat. And even then they had to put her in cryo-statis isolation, guarded by three heavy mechs. 
But for some reason there are some people that are offended by her rude behavior. Truly that can only be described as comedy. It's equally funny, and just as pointless, that the one thing people seem to hate about her the most is her haircut. 
Regardless of the reasons why though, I personally think she's a great character. In fact I think the fact that so many people hate her is a good thing. Great in fact, she's the type of person that wants you to hate her, she wants to make the people around her uncomfortable. Let's face it, she'd love any excuse to kill anyone near her. The way I figure, the more people hate her the better she is as a character because of it.
That said I do look forward to how she will evolve in ME3, maybe she'll learn to be kinder and gentler person. Personally I hope she remains the same offensive violent person, only evolved to the point where she at least treats her friends (i.e. you) a lot better. Not kinder, mind you, just better. She'll still insult you given half the chance, but at least she'll be willing to sit down with you for a friendly lunch while doing so.

Miranda
Like Jack, Miranda has a surprising number of haters out there as well. Unlike Jack, however, Miranda was a character that I pretty much hated for most of the game. But this is what makes her such an awesome character. 
All throughout the game she was always going on about how superior she was. She made sure to remind you that if it hadn't been for her and Cerberus you wouldn't even be alive. And even after showing her proof she still refused to see how bad Cerberus truly was. I couldn't believe it that after helping her with her sister, after taking her to see the conditions Jack was raised in, after confronting her about the experiments they conducted on Husks, Thorians, even Rachnni, she was still defending Cerberus and all their actions. 
It seemed we disagreed on everything. So much so that when she and Jack had their little argument, I sided with Jack even though I could have easily persuaded both of them to stand down without choosing a side. I came back around to smooth things over with her with the proper renegade dialog, sure, but at the time I simply refused to agree with her even remotely. God how I hated her.
And that was the biggest reason why I love the writing they did with this character. Because as much as I hated her, I also totaly respected her. I liked that she stuck with her guns even when I completely disagreed with her. I liked that she never once had a problem disagreeing with me in return. And it was the fact that we completely disagreed and yet still respected each other that made things so much better when she finally did agree with me about the Collector base, even going so far as resigning from Cerberus rather then be forced into following TIM's orders. 
This is why I so look forward to her in ME3, not as a friend who agrees with me, there are plenty of those already, but as someone I respect who still disagrees with me. I want to have that character who is a constant foil to my decisions, someone who will always have the opposing viewpoint available for me to see. 
I can see a great rivalry happening here between Miranda and my Shepard. Shepard was born on the streets of Earth and had to fight everyday just to survive. Miranda also born on Earth but in a a life of luxury, everything she could ever want was provided for her but she threw it all away for the one thing she didn't have, her freedom. Despite both coming from the same planet they come from two completely different worlds. And I can't wait to see how this develops further.

Re: Jack

I didn't find her offensive, mostly because she was trying too hard. She's got nothing on that goddamned Turian councilor and his ****ing air quotes (I will kill him). Actually, her profanities (which I heard some complaints about when her preview video was released) didn't phase me whatsoever because I use profanity pretty casually IRL. The rest of her tough girl act was pretty clearly a facade, she actually seemed very brittle. I did my best to give her a safe place in the cargo hold, tried to talk her out of reflexively killing people because she assumes everyone is out to get her, and later used her for the biotic shield because I don't want her to perceive her biotics solely as a weapon. Of course, I also got a kick out of her fantasy of Shepard as a pirate queen. Partly because if my Shep goes back to the Alliance, I want her to be a Corsair. Jack can handle "public relations." I don't need her to be nicer in ME3 (her rudeness amuses me), but some shred of moral compass would be nice. I still crack up when my Shep asks how she's doing, and Jack tells her and then says "No one ever asked me that before. So **** you."

Re: Miranda

I liked her less, because I always roll Earthborn/Survivor. I like your perception of the contrast between Earth!Shep and Miranda, but my Shep is always going to be prickly with her because of what Cerberus did at Akuze. It's part of why I let Jack get her mitts all over Cerberus' dirty secrets. Hell, I wanted to copy those files and ship them to Liara and tell her to make sure she gets a good price for it. I agree that she was good as the opposition, I just wish my Shepard could have argued with her (and Jacob) about the nature of Cerberus more than we were allowed. It really burned that she got the last word about the thorian/husk experiments by saying they were good as mindless shock troops. You know those creepers and husks don't come from nowhere, right Miranda? You have to turn people into that, they don't just "spawn" that way. I was actually really surprised to hear her resign at the end, she seemed to have an excuse or a defense for everything Cerberus did up until that point. She always toed the company line so it seemed very sudden for her to balk at that late in the game. I do agree that it's nice to have a character be "the loyal opposition" instead of being 100% supportive, but I've noticed in this forum and in DA's forum that people really tend to dislike characters who oppose or disagree with the PC even if they have good reasons for their actions and aren't bad people. I hope the fan ****ing doesn't discourage Bioware from keeping it up <_<

[GodWood]

ME2 > ME1.

[Balerion84]

Scanning.

*I put on my robe and flame hat*
 

[tsd16]

Frotality wrote...

story telling 101= sidekicks are supposed to be liked, it VILLIANS that should be hated.

you and bioware seen to have forgotten that part.

But there are people that like the characters people hate.   it is impossible for bioware to please everyone.

Theres people that hate miranda and like her, hate jack like jack, hate tali like tali, etc etc.  there isnt a single character Everyone hates, ME as of yet lacks a jar jar binks.

[Kreidian]

sniper1250 wrote...

Kreidian wrote...

I can see a great rivalry happening here between Miranda and my Shepard. Shepard was born on the streets of Earth and had to fight everyday just to survive. Miranda also born on Earth but in a a life of luxury, everything she could ever want was provided for her but she threw it all away for the one thing she didn't have, her freedom.

I never got why people keep thinking Miranda was a spoilt rich kid like we have today. Niket insinuates that since he was poor once and Miranda's father had money that Miranda sat around in little princess dresses having tea parties. Then one day she threw a temper tantrum and decided when she left that she would take her sister with her because she could. It doesn't say this in game, just that she got what she wanted but with a catch.

It's far more likely that Miranda was isolated from other children and forced to study/train for most of her life, to see if the genetic tailoring worked. After all, her sister was her replacement, which means she probably didn't preform up to expectations and was probably about to be "discarded" by her father. Yeah she probably had silk sheets and ate off the expensive china, but there was probably an army of tutors, instructors, and trainers there to take up almost all her time. While she didn't have to fight for her food everyday, she would have to prove to her father that she was worthy of living another day. Prove that he didn't need to go back to the drawing board and make another daughter that would preform better than her.

But, since you hate her this would probably not change your perception much. I'm just saying that alot of people seem to forget that when designing a dynasty in a lab, you might need to raise a child past embryo to see if the child is worthy. I would think that each daughter would meet expectations up to a certain time, and then their father would decide that they weren't good enough to inherit his fortune and "discard" them. Since their DNA would give them claim to his dynasty's fortune, there is only one "discard" that would be an option here, and it's not giving the babies up for adoption. This is NOT a trait of a caring/loving father.

I totally agree with you actually. Miranda had a pretty horrible childhood no question there, she didn't have a father but a slave driver. However my statement was about how my Shepard saw Miranda. Sure Miranda may have been a prisoner in a gilded cage, but everything was provided for her. She even admits that her father gave her anything she could have asked for, and she threw it all back at him. Whereas my Earthborn Shepard started with nothing and got nothing, and had to fight hard for every scrap she ever got. Heck she never even knew her own parents. On the other hand Shepard always had the freedom that her gang life afforded, including opportunities for friendships. Something Miranda could only dream of growing up.

They both had horrible childhoods but from completely different perspectives. But in the end they both made their own lives against all odds. That is why they make such a great pair despite completely disagreeing with each other. 

[Faust6999]

Modifié par Faust6999, 22 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[raichualuvsong]

Frotality wrote...

story telling 101= sidekicks are supposed to be liked, it VILLIANS that should be hated.

you and bioware seen to have forgotten that part.

That is such a narrow minded view of what a secondary character should be. 

If that were the case then every sidekick in every work of fiction should be like Ron from Harry Potter.