130 réponses à ce sujet

[aaniadyen]

I just replayed through Mordin's loyalty mission again, all of the paragon dialogue seemed really harsh on him. He says he thinks modifying the genophage was the best option. If the Krogan were allowed to advance further, their thrist for conquest would lead to a very bloody war, probably resulting in Krogan genocide. He said the work he did was hard to live with. It kept him up at night, caused him to have a religious crisis, and to ultimately open up a med-clinic on Omega out of penance. He thinks he did the right thing, and he still really beats himself up over it...and all paragon Shepard has to say is "Yeah, you're an ****. You didn't help anyone, just look at all these dead test subjects." I mean...what the ****? That's not cool. He's clearly sorry for what he did, and he only did it because it would result in the least loss of life. He actually says that he had to work hard to make sure the birth rate didn't drop too low, either. Then Shepard's paragon response is kicking him while he's down? That was pretty ****ty.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 21 février 2010 - 10:02 .

[SelphieSK]

I didn't like the paragon responses on Mordin's loyalty mission either, Shepard acts like an irrational idealist.

I always pick Renegade ones here, they seem more logical imo.

[Nyaore]

I definitely considered most of the paragon options in that quest to be of the Lawful Stupid variety. Even if you feel sorry for the Krogan and abhor the mere thought of the genophage, you have to admit that implementing and then later modifying it was the best option for all involved. A modified existence is better than no existence at all.
Frankly I think it would have been best for the Salarians to have never uplifted the Krogan in the first place and to have allowed them to evolve to a point where they could culturally keep themselves in check if taken off of their homeworld; but at the end of the day what's done is done. I can't hate Mordin for attempt to trying to do what he felt was right in the wake of his species' past mistakes.

Modifié par Nyaore, 21 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

I agree, I thought the paragon responses were a little rigid and over the top. I mean, they were dealing with a sentient warlike species that has been proven to over reproduce. The krogan also seemed unwilling to compromise with other species and seem to prefer taking other species' colonies instead of founding their own. It seemed a little presumptous for a human to comment on a war and period that he has little to no knowledge on. I always choose the neutral or renegade responses on that quest.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 21 février 2010 - 10:10 .

[Biotic_Warlock]

Yea but its paragon because what Mordin was doing was wrong. And mordin starts to agree a bit with you and understand.

[Girchou]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Yea but its paragon because what Mordin was doing was wrong. And mordin starts to agree a bit with you and understand.

this.

[Schneidend]

It was a bit judgemental, I agree, but it's called Paragon, rather than Pragmatic, for a reason.

[aaniadyen]

Girchou wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Yea but its paragon because what Mordin was doing was wrong. And mordin starts to agree a bit with you and understand.

this.

Maybe this is true. Thing is, he still kicked him when he was down. Didn't seem very paragon to me. A paragon would help him get through it, then rationally explain why what he was doing wasn't right. He wouldn't just kick him in the quads like that. You treat worse people better than you threated Mordin on that mission.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 21 février 2010 - 10:15 .

[stealthisaccount101]

This always bothered me a bit, too. Mostly because the dialogue wheel was so misleading. Like, "So you feel guilt?" becomes, "You should feel guilty, you evil, monstrous genocidal war criminal! I hope die, and I hope you burn in hell!"

[enormousmoonboots]

Mordin himself is pretty doubtful of his actions, it's clear he's trying hard to convince himself he was in the right. Paragon Shep needs to shake him out of that.

[Kreid]

Well, you can disagree with him/her or call Paragon Shepard and "extreme idealist" if you want but by what the Salarians did was wrong, first they gave the Krogan advanced tech they weren't prepared to handle on their convenience to solve a problem they created and couldn't deal with, THEN they castrated them when they went of out control and castrated them AGAIN based on simulation and virtual scenarios

Modifié par Creid-X, 21 février 2010 - 10:26 .

[Gamine]

I didn't like it either, I felt like such a jerk hammering him with paragon responses that I decided to choose some neutral and renegade ones just to lighten up. I like Mordin, dangit! He was having a crisis of conscience, I don't think Shepard's 2 cents were even necessary in that situation.

[flem1]

Except Mordin was completely right. The Paragon options here and on Tali's quest ("How dare he shoot at Geth!") are Lawful Insane.

Modifié par flem1, 21 février 2010 - 10:27 .

[The Enkindler]

I tried to balance the lecturing Mordin with trying to convince him on my viewpoint. Perhaps this is the missing link people have been wondering about in the "why does Mordin randomly die at the final battle?" question?



Maybe affecting Mordin's state of mind on the ethical crisis he has affects his performance at the end of the game holding the line. Or not, maybe the game isn't that sophisticated. Or is it?!



All I know is that in my playthrough, Mordin lived.

[Gill Kaiser]

With my Paragon Shepard I generally choose the Renegade speech options during both Mordin and Legion's loyalty quest, then choose the Paragon option at the end. It seems to make a better story - Shepard starts off slightly prejudiced then has his/her mind changed by Mordin/Legion.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 21 février 2010 - 10:28 .

[Nyaore]

Creid-X wrote...

Well, you can disagree with him/her or call Paragon Shepard and "extreme idealist" if you want but by what the Salarians did was wrong, first they gave the Krogan advanced tech they weren't prepared to handle on their convenience to solve a problem they created and couldn't deal with, THEN they castrated them when they went of out control and castrated them AGAIN based on simulation and virtual scenarios

Not disagreeing, but at the end of the day the genophage was definitely the best bandaid they could have applied to the situation. Either an entire race died because of the Salarian's stupidity, funny how they're always touted as one of the smartest races, or they tried to make the best of things and step up the evolutionary progress to allow the Krogan to exist alongside the rest of the Galaxy. Regardless, at the end of the day the Salarians still screwed an entire race over with their actions. Though at least one of the options allowed said race to continue existing instead of being annihilated to make up for that mistake. The genophage is essentially the lesser of two evils when you get down to it.

That said I'd KILL to be able to go back in time and beat the **** out of the morons who thought uplifting the Krogan would have been a good idea.

Modifié par Nyaore, 21 février 2010 - 10:33 .

[aaniadyen]

My favorite part is when you meet Mordin's student at the end. You berate him for running tests on live Krogan to find the cure after you berate Mordin for working on the genophage in the first place. Seemed a little bit contradictory to me. I felt it was a lot more appropriate giving the student **** for experimenting on live Krogan, at least.

[flem1]

aaniadyen wrote...

My favorite part is when you meet Mordin's student at the end. You berate him for running tests on live Krogan to find the cure after you berate Mordin for working on the genophage in the first place. Seemed a little bit contradictory to me. I felt it was a lot more appropriate giving the student **** for experimenting on live Krogan, at least.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but it seems you weren't paying attention to the conversations.  Next time ask Mordin about his research protocols.

The student would have a great future as a Cerberus researcher, though...  Which may make him too dangerous to let live. 

Modifié par flem1, 21 février 2010 - 10:38 .

[amrose2]

Creid-X wrote...

That said I'd KILL to be able to go back in time and beat the **** out of the morons who thought uplifting the Krogan would have been a good idea.

But if they hadn't... the Rachni would have killed everyone

Modifié par amrose2, 21 février 2010 - 10:37 .

[aaniadyen]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Mordin himself is pretty doubtful of his actions, it's clear he's trying hard to convince himself he was in the right. Paragon Shep needs to shake him out of that.

I don't know. The dialogue came off to me as Shepard not trying to convince him of anything. If he was, wouldn't he bring up how the Krogan always fight over females now just to try to survive? It seemed to me as though Mordin was in a really fragile state of mind because he was finally forced to face the effects the genophage had on the Krogan on a more individual level. Shepard then comes in with a solid accusation of guilt. Paragon Shepard usually comes off as a carring kind of guy to people who are confused about morality...but this time, it really didn't feel that way.

[aaniadyen]

flem1 wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

My favorite part is when you meet Mordin's student at the end. You berate him for running tests on live Krogan to find the cure after you berate Mordin for working on the genophage in the first place. Seemed a little bit contradictory to me. I felt it was a lot more appropriate giving the student **** for experimenting on live Krogan, at least.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but it seems you weren't paying attention to the conversations.  Next time ask Mordin about his research protocols.

The student would have a great future as a Cerberus researcher, though...  Which may make him too dangerous to let live. 

I wrote it pretty poorly. Could be that I misinterpreted the conversation though. What is it you think I missed? I asked Mordin about conducting expiraments on Krogan when I came across the dead human. He said he would "never expirament on a species capable of calculus." and that he'd never break that rule. he said he always used cloned proteins, dead tissue and vegetation for expirimentation.

[trueKieran]

aaniadyen wrote...

Girchou wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Yea but its paragon because what Mordin was doing was wrong. And mordin starts to agree a bit with you and understand.

this.

Maybe this is true. Thing is, he still kicked him when he was down. Didn't seem very paragon to me. A paragon would help him get through it, then rationally explain why what he was doing wasn't right. He wouldn't just kick him in the quads like that. You treat worse people better than you threated Mordin on that mission.

Yes that bothered me too a bit. The problem is not so much what he said (content), but how he said it. Obviously it was already difficult for Mordin to be confronted with all that again. There would have been another way than to kick him while he was down.

[WillieStyle]

I like to think of Mordin's loyalty mission as a Socratic Dialogue. Mordin tackles all these moral questions regarding the genophage. Paragon Sheperd is just there to ask him the tough questions. Mordin answers them well in my opinion.

Personally, I thought this was the best loyalty quest (other than Tali's).

[enormousmoonboots]

aaniadyen wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Mordin himself is pretty doubtful of his actions, it's clear he's trying hard to convince himself he was in the right. Paragon Shep needs to shake him out of that.

I don't know. The dialogue came off to me as Shepard not trying to convince him of anything. If he was, wouldn't he bring up how the Krogan always fight over females now just to try to survive? It seemed to me as though Mordin was in a really fragile state of mind because he was finally forced to face the effects the genophage had on the Krogan on a more individual level. Shepard then comes in with a solid accusation of guilt. Paragon Shepard usually comes off as a carring kind of guy to people who are confused about morality...but this time, it really didn't feel that way.

I play Femshep, so maybe the delivery of the lines is a little different? IIRC I was pretty solid Paragon through that conversation, didn't feel like I was being a dick.

[TheLostGenius]

Their is a hypocritical analogy in the ME universe. The Genophage being condoned, a form very near to genocide...while the Reaper's want to commit genocide against all species is wrong. Much like the Quarians want to commit genocide to the Geth yet most would sympathize with them. So in ME, sometimes Genocide is right, and sometimes Genocide is wrong? Always thought they played with that idea in ani ntieresting way.