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[Jaekahn]

hobbes22 wrote...

Jaekahn wrote...


The reason why I picked Mechanic over Operative for my Demolisher and Warp Techie builds; Incinerate is still my main power for dealing damage. The Damage over time more or less is equal to the damage boost you would get from operative, so there was no real change there. Cryo Blast, however, got the biggest boost from Mechanic which was more important to me than, let's say increasing the damage from overload. Mechanic also benefits the Drone, though I am slightly unsure as to how much of a damage boost they would get from an Operative. I'm playing an Engineer for a third time in order to test other builds and strategies and such.

That is interesting... If Mechanic affects Incinerate damage by adding 0.6 seconds (20% of 3 sec) of 70/damage a second, then Mechanic and Operative affect Incinerate's damage equally (252 damage total).  Has anyone tested if this is the case?  

If the above is true, then Mechanic becomes a lot more interesting to players that use Cryo or AI Hacking in their Engineer builds.  Plus, you get added health and paragon/renegade scores.

If you rely mostly on Incinerate, Overload, and Drone, then Operative would probably be preferred.  Overload and Drone damage are increased, and your drone won't live past 24 seconds on insanity too often.  Also, if you have warp or AP ammo as your bonus skill, the power damage boost will help you there as well.

The damage between Mechanic and Operative's influence over Incinerate is actually equal. The only difference is that Operative's Incinerate is more of a burst while Mechanic prolongs the duration of damage over time. I, personally, prefer Mechanic for that reason. Majority of the organics that are effected by Incinerate are temporarily disorientated while they try to put out the fire. As a result, the control aspect of the power is prolonged through Mechanic. The benefit from Operative, however, increases the amount of armor that is removed and adds an overall burst to the power instead.

In addition, Cryo's duration is also enhanced by Mechanic. I was thinking about this for quite some time at work today, realizing that Mechanic is probably the better of the two for both a Demolisher player and a Tech Master, considering that Mechanic will also improve the duration of your control over mechs / organics (with Dominate).

[Jaekahn]

Update: Added a paragraph or two under the Demolisher section, mentioning why both Mechanic and Operative may benefit the build equally.

[hobbes22]

Jaekahn wrote...

The damage between Mechanic and Operative's influence over Incinerate is actually equal. The only difference is that Operative's Incinerate is more of a burst while Mechanic prolongs the duration of damage over time. I, personally, prefer Mechanic for that reason. Majority of the organics that are effected by Incinerate are temporarily disorientated while they try to put out the fire. As a result, the control aspect of the power is prolonged through Mechanic. The benefit from Operative, however, increases the amount of armor that is removed and adds an overall burst to the power instead.

In addition, Cryo's duration is also enhanced by Mechanic. I was thinking about this for quite some time at work today, realizing that Mechanic is probably the better of the two for both a Demolisher player and a Tech Master, considering that Mechanic will also improve the duration of your control over mechs / organics (with Dominate).

Hmm, the added burn time of organics is a nice benefit to Mechanic.  I think if you did not use Cryo or AI Hack much and really used the Drone, then Operative would still be preferable (e.g., explosive drone does 120 damage vs. 100 damage).  This is especially true if you max either warp or AP ammo for a bonus skill.  But it is not as clear cut as I first thought.  The Mechanic has its virtues.

Has anyone actually tested Incinerate with both Mechanic and Operative?  It would make a big difference if Heavy Incinerate just did 210 damage over 3.6 seconds instead of 3.0 seconds.  Does Heavy Incinerate always do a steady 70/damage per second (210 damage divided by 3 seconds)?  

[Jaekahn]

hobbes22 wrote...

Jaekahn wrote...

The damage between Mechanic and Operative's influence over Incinerate is actually equal. The only difference is that Operative's Incinerate is more of a burst while Mechanic prolongs the duration of damage over time. I, personally, prefer Mechanic for that reason. Majority of the organics that are effected by Incinerate are temporarily disorientated while they try to put out the fire. As a result, the control aspect of the power is prolonged through Mechanic. The benefit from Operative, however, increases the amount of armor that is removed and adds an overall burst to the power instead.

In addition, Cryo's duration is also enhanced by Mechanic. I was thinking about this for quite some time at work today, realizing that Mechanic is probably the better of the two for both a Demolisher player and a Tech Master, considering that Mechanic will also improve the duration of your control over mechs / organics (with Dominate).

Hmm, the added burn time of organics is a nice benefit to Mechanic.  I think if you did not use Cryo or AI Hack much and really used the Drone, then Operative would still be preferable (e.g., explosive drone does 120 damage vs. 100 damage).  This is especially true if you max either warp or AP ammo for a bonus skill.  But it is not as clear cut as I first thought.  The Mechanic has its virtues.

Has anyone actually tested Incinerate with both Mechanic and Operative?  It would make a big difference if Heavy Incinerate just did 210 damage over 3.6 seconds instead of 3.0 seconds.  Does Heavy Incinerate always do a steady 70/damage per second (210 damage divided by 3 seconds)?  

That's exactly my point. The Demolisher's build is designed to increase your damage and provide you a little burst. Technically, Cryo is just another power to use to increase your damage vs frozen targets, essentially adding more burst. Considering that Cryo itself doesn't do any damage, the decision to pick it up yourself is entirely optional. That is why I suggested Operative as well, since it would benefit those who prefer to play without the Drone, Cryo Blast and Hacking abilities a lot more than Mechanic would.

In response to the actual testing, I've only done it briefly. I noticed a slight difference as far as how quick their health / armor / shield bar went down, but Incinerate on both ranks basically brough the armor and health down the same amount. The only difference is that Operative did it quicker, essentially allowing you to finish them off quicker.

[hobbes22]

Just to clarify my comment above about warp/AP ammo...



A 15% bonus to power damage affects warp/AP ammo. So if you max AP ammo and would normally do 100 damage/sec plus 75 damage/sec from AP ammo, with Operative you would in fact do about 86 damage/sec from AP ammo + power damage bonus.



If you plan to max warp/AP ammo, this is more important. If you plan on only putting a point or two in them, then the power boost is probably insignificant.



Also, if you plan to take Reave (another popular bonus skill), it is another damage over time power, so Mechanic and Operative will affect it similarly to Incinerate. So, Mechanic may increase the duration of its stun.

[Jaekahn]

Update: The Demolisher's leveling guide is posted. Keep in mind that it may not follow relate to your exact level, but is more or less designed around it. It is still a guide and I did my best at providing enough of a description to give you an understanding as to why I chose those powers at that time. Depending on your level, you may be higher than the key point level in the guide and if that's the case, then you can invest into more points. Hope you guys enjoy what I have so far.

PS, I know there's a lot to read and I apologize. I just can't sum everything that is needed up in words. I wish I had the ability to post video guides. Curse you Gatsby! >/

Modifié par Jaekahn, 22 février 2010 - 11:40 .

[Jaekahn]

Update: The Warp Techie leveling guide is up and running. After constant editing on the thread and testing my mathmatical skills, or lack there of, I feel that I finally got all the math correct in relation to how many points we get for level 30 and the key point levels listed in both guides. I hope this guide helps and any feedback on either guide, this thread or via message is greatly appreciated.

[FoFoZem]

Tech Master - Level 30



Area Overload - Rank 4 - 10 points

Incinerate - Rank 1 - 1 point

Attack Drone - Rank 4 - 10 points

Cryo Blast -

Area AI Hacking - Rank 4 - 10 points

Mechanic - Rank 4 - 10 points



Area Dominate - Rank 4 - 10 points



50 points used - 1 point remaining

This build does not work as you need rank 2 Cryo (3 points) before you can put points into Hack

[Jaekahn]

Gah of course... My brain's bugging out on me, I swear.

[Jaekahn]

Jaekahn wrote...

Warp Techie - Level 30

Heavy Overload - Rank 4 - 10 points
Heavy Incinerate - Rank 4 - 10 points
Explosive Drone - Rank 4 - 10 points
Cryo Blast - Rank 1 - 1 point
AI Hacking - 
Operative - Rank 4 - 10 points
Squad Warp Ammo - Rank 4 - 10 points

51 points used - 0 points remaining

This build was my build of choice in heavy Collector battles such as Horizon and the Collector Ship. Collector's shielding is actually a barrier instead of armor. Thus, Warp from Thane or Miranda, or Warp Ammo is more effective against them. I think I can safely say that this build is actually focused around the Warp Ammo and aside from that, the playstyle isn't much different than the build above.
 

Tech Master - Level 30

Area Overload - Rank 4 - 10 points
Incinerate - Rank 1 - 1 point
Drone - Rank 3 - 6 points
Cryo Blast -  Rank 2 - 3 points
Area AI Hacking - Rank 4 - 10 points
Mechanic - Rank 4 - 10 points

Area Dominate - Rank 4 - 10 points

50 points used - 1 point remaining

This style replicates the Tech Master experience and overall enhances your ability to control the battlefield. Area overload gives you the ability to remove shields on groups quicker, thus making it faster for you to actually take control of them once their protection is removed. I felt that 2 points in Incinerate was still necessary so that it could help you vs armor on organics. Cryo is the least of your concerns as a Tech Master since you're spending most of the time trying to keep control of the target and less time using powers for other reasons. I felt that Drone itself wasn't as necessary as the other builds considering that you have multiple organics / synthetics under your control as is. Thus, maxing out the Drone is simply a waste of points. Also by taking control of the target, it turns every other enemy against them, thus wearing down their numbers one at a time. As I mentioned earlier, I am slightly less experienced with this playstyle but I can assume that battles have a tendency of lasting longer this way and that you will be more or less playing conservatively.

After re-evaluating the build, courtesy of a disfunctional brain, I made a few corrections and also changed a portion of the description relating to Tech Master.

[Jaekahn]

Bump

[keatoncoker]

So which was your favorite/did you have the most fun with out of these 3 builds? I think Im going with the demo, but the AI hack and dominate looks like soooo much fun lol.

[Jaekahn]

I spent most of the time as a Demolisher throughout both my runs. The only time I ever showed interest in other builds was Warp Techie and that was during the Collector Ship on my Insanity run. After the Collector Ship, I stuck with that build for the rest of the run, though I had Mechanic over Operative. There was no actual logic behind that choice since I was completely ignorant over Operative's advantage. My third playthrough is going to experiment more with Warp Techie and Tech Master so I can provide more insight and feedback on those two builds.

[VirtualAlex]

You should make this into a blog, and put it into your sig... and make more videos.

[Jaekahn]

I was going to put this into my Sig but I don't have the ability to make videos. Basically I have a link to Gatsby's video guide in order to fill that void. Why do you think it should be a blog?

[Jaekahn]

Blog is posted.

[GeckoTH]

Excellent guide! I'm just beginning my insanity playthrough now, and between you and Average Gatsby, I feel like I'm in good hands.

[Modded-Logic]

I just started my first play-through and decided to go with the engineer for a little extra tactical play. I agree wholeheartedly with the Geckster that after been reading your guide, and watched Gatsby's videos, I now have a much better understanding on how the mechanics of the engineer class work.



Keep up the good work!

[Jaekahn]

Modded-Logic wrote...

I just started my first play-through and decided to go with the engineer for a little extra tactical play. I agree wholeheartedly with the Geckster that after been reading your guide, and watched Gatsby's videos, I now have a much better understanding on how the mechanics of the engineer class work.

Keep up the good work!

I am truly happy that my guide is helpful. The Engineer class is the most appealing class to me and I am striving to make them more noticable and well-liked among Mass Effect players. Just a heads up, though I am far from finish with my Engineer guide, I am looking for some feedback as to what other classes you guys think need proper guides. After designing this one, I may have found a little hobbie and might set a personal goal to design thorough guides for every class, maybe excluding the Adept and Vanguard since Thisisme8 and Average Gatsby covered those quite nicely. If you don't mind, please vote in regards to what guide you guys would like to see.

social.bioware.com/389906/polls/2600/

PS, Tech Master's Leveling Guide is just about finish. I will update it when it is done.

[Arde5643]

The engineer class I believe is truly the most versatile class in the game with how many ways you can build it.



Not versatile as in being boring as the soldier but versatile in builds since no different build is actually wrong with the engineer.

[Jaekahn]

UPDATE:

Tech Master has been added to the Guide. I noted that I am slightly less experienced with this build so any feedback from those who have experimented with it, or something similar, is greatly appreciated.

[Jaekahn]

Is there anything else you guys want me to include into the Engineer guide?

[Jaekahn]

Bump

[Jaekahn]

Since there's no more feedback, I'm assuming the Engineer guide is set. Please vote in relation to what class guide you would like to see. I am well aware that my style may be inferior to Thisisme8 and Average Gatsby's video guides, but I will do the best I can to provide enough information to get you started. Again, thank you guys.

[mikegt3]

This is a great guide! Your guide and Gatsby’s videos inspired me to try the engineer (a class I completely ignored in ME1) and I’m having a great time - although I haven’t been able to match the aggressive style in Gatsby’s videos, and probably never will :-)



The skill that is surprising me the most is Cryo. Incredibly useful at level 1, it synergizes well with Incinerate and is a great way to boost damage of other weapons and powers while controlling targets.



I was doubtful at first about not dropping more points into AP ammo for the Demolisher build, but I’m starting to see your logic - although the passive damage boost would be nice, I’m getting more mileage out of investing those points in drone, incinerate and cryo.



One more suggestion for your guide if it’s not too late: the one area that seems to be a weakness for me is large groups of enemies that rush you, like Varren, Husks, etc. At this point, I may just have to accept that I need help from my biotic squaddies to control them. Any thoughts on how the engineer can best handle these?