118 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Rip504 wrote...

How much of Citadel space is unexplored,not to mention Terminus etc.They may have something as simple as a backup relay.They were going to jump into Citadel space through the Citadel as a relay.
Who is to say the Reapers don't have a backup Relay?

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

[Jalem001]

rab****annel wrote...

Also, how do we know the Reapers don't have their own secret relay there in dark space? The Mu Relay was hidden for an extended period of time. How do we know the Reapers didn't sneak one in there while we were all swimming in the primordial soup stage?

This is something I've thought about frequently too. 

We don't know how the Reapers are going to get to our galaxy, but they are going to get here. They certainly have a few tricks up their...err...sleeves.

[Doug84]

The Angry One wrote...

The Citadel plan comes in two parts and both are vitally important to the Reapers:

1) Instantly kill the entire government of the galaxy, have access to important censor data and bring in the Reaper fleet.

2) The Citadel locks down the entire relay network. Everybody is stranded in their local clusters for easy culling.

The Reapers require the consumption of an entire galactic population, this means their energy requirements and expenditures must be enormous. If they could simply take on the galaxy in a straight fight and win they'd just do that. They can't, they're gambling that they can win before they die because they have no other choice.

The honest problem I have with that is they could set up their hiding place directly 'above' the Citadel relative to the galaxy plane. And they could do it closer, so that it would only be a 1-2 year flight that didn't leave them exposed. And they wouldn't be at risk of detection as their would be no stars that far above the plane of the Galactic disc.

Though the possible flaw with that theory is the gravitational attraction of the Galactic core could render that spot unsuitable for a 50,000 year camp out.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

The Angry One wrote...

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

The human-reaper could have simply been a separate project though...

[Jalem001]

The Angry One wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

How much of Citadel space is unexplored,not to mention Terminus etc.They may have something as simple as a backup relay.They were going to jump into Citadel space through the Citadel as a relay.
Who is to say the Reapers don't have a backup Relay?

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

The Human Reaper is more of a bonus find for the Reapers I think. 

They almost certainly have several backup plans.  Considering how rare it is to find a race with the genetic diversity to even create a new Reaper I doubt that this was one of the high priority plans.  Once Sovreign failed they almost certainly activated several plans.  Finding out that the Shepard's race is viable for Reaper reproduction just makes exterminating them that much more sweeter.

[The Angry One]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

The human-reaper could have simply been a separate project though...

Except that the Reaper fleet activates and moves off right after you kill the baby Reaper.
Seemed to me like a "**** it! We'll take the long way!" moment.

[Lt.Boom]

hey think about this how were they gonna get back to cidtel space from dark space right. NOW how would the do that if there were no relays in dark space

[Kyria Nyriese]

As others have said, you are assuming that they are using a 90 degree view, personally I thought it looked wider, but that could be a trick of the video. 

Also again you are assuming that they can only travel at light speed or slower, when we can travel well beyond the speed of light at that point in time.  So even if we JUST double their speed we halve the expected travel time to 5.5 years, now they have already been in route for about 2.25 years, so let's say they will be here within 3 years. 

Now... Let's also look at another thing, we have no way of knowing that they don't have the ability to jump from the farthest relay in the galaxy to the Citadel.  Seeing as they created the relay network, and the mission through the Omega 4 relay in ME 2 already show that they have advanced technology in the relays that we have not yet discovered. 

I would say that it is a pretty good chance they very well could be flying into the Milky Way and that they could very well be sitting on the council's front door step in roughly 3 years and we would be none the wiser, if it weren't for one Commander Shepard and his 'reaper' theory.  (sorry couldn't resist the finger quotes there )

So yes, if they were traveling at just the speed of light it would take them a heck of a long time to reach the Milky Way.  However, due to the establishment of FTL travel, and that Bioware has established that in current species in the galaxy have drives that travel at 4000+ the speed of light.  I would say that it is very safe to say that the Reapers are cabable of at least that if not significantly faster speeds.

Just my 2 creds worth.

[rabbitchannel]

The Angry One wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

How much of Citadel space is unexplored,not to mention Terminus etc.They may have something as simple as a backup relay.They were going to jump into Citadel space through the Citadel as a relay.
Who is to say the Reapers don't have a backup Relay?

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

That would be true if you assume that the only reason that Reaper was built was to replace Sovereign as a vanguard. Given Sovereign's ego, how they cull the galaxy of all tech every so often, and how the Geth regard them as being the pinnacle of synthetic life, it is reasonable to assume that the Reapers are constantly upgrading themselves to be at the peak of their power. Thus, every time one of them is defeated (Sovereign), attention is granted to those who defeated that Reaper. They then use that species to build the next Reaper, the next evolution, the next upgrade. Given that Reapers are part organic, inorganic, a change in organic material should result in a change in the Reaper itself. So what would result is a Reaper designed to counter humanity. Or something along those lines.

[Rip504]

The humans are special to them.(The Reaper) They wanted us to join their ranks and hopefully we will prove useful to them in the long run.You do not do something like this while waging war against an entire galaxy.Surprise attacks(as they would have and have done on the Citadel)does make a bit of sense to me.
"Salvation through Destruction"
Why do the Reapers have to be in a rush?Didn't vigil state it took hundreds of years for the Reapers to wipe out all life in the Galaxy 50,000 years ago.I don't see the Reapers being in a big rush all of a sudden.

Modifié par Rip504, 22 février 2010 - 12:16 .

[Schneidend]

The Angry One wrote...

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

Well, that's not really a backup plan. That's just how reapers are made. The entire point of the harvesting cycle is to do what the collectors were doing, except on a massive scale.

[Jalem001]

The Angry One wrote...

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

If they had a backup then they wouldn't be wasting time on a plan as convoluted as making a baby Reaper out of human slush.

The human-reaper could have simply been a separate project though...

Except that the Reaper fleet activates and moves off right after you kill the baby Reaper.
Seemed to me like a "**** it! We'll take the long way!" moment.

Why do you think this?

For all you know the Reapers had been moving for 2 years.   There's nothing to suggest they activated when we destroyed the Collector base, thats just when we see them.

[Jalem001]

gd double post

Modifié par Jalem001, 22 février 2010 - 12:17 .

[ufoflieger]

It may not be a safe assumption, but I consider it good enough. It may be off scale by a factor of 2 (or 4, or 8) but the dimension stays the same.



And.. every lightyear they are nearer to the galaxy than assumed strengthens the main argument: if they can FTL-traver to the galaxy in no time, why haven't they already done so? They would be so fast no sensor could see them coming in time, and they could - as mentioned before - attack the citadel first anyway.

[rabbitchannel]

ufoflieger wrote...

It may not be a safe assumption, but I consider it good enough. It may be off scale by a factor of 2 (or 4, or 8) but the dimension stays the same.

And.. every lightyear they are nearer to the galaxy than assumed strengthens the main argument: if they can FTL-traver to the galaxy in no time, why haven't they already done so? They would be so fast no sensor could see them coming in time, and they could - as mentioned before - attack the citadel first anyway.

It's possible that they are not capable themselves, or that doing so would deplete energy. What I can see happening is that they are traveling to their mass effect relay in dark space, not directly to the galaxy. Once they reach the relay, then they will come. I WANNA PLAY ME 3.

[SVRG]

Doesn't each reaper have a built in mass relay or something? Wouldn't this allow them to instantly transport to just about any in the galaxy (except for the conduit/citadel relay of course)?

[Pauravi]

ufoflieger wrote...

And.. every lightyear they are nearer to the galaxy than assumed strengthens the main argument: if they can FTL-traver to the galaxy in no time, why haven't they already done so? They would be so fast no sensor could see them coming in time, and they could - as mentioned before - attack the citadel first anyway.

There are a number of good reasons why they would prefer not to that I have reiterated in similar threads.  The short versions are:

- The unannounced blitzrieg strategy disorganizes the defenders and makes organized resistance all but impossible
- Allowing the galactic community the time to safeguard their data makes it difficult, perhaps impossible for the Reapers to commit a complete genocide.  After all, the Protheans managed to keep Ilos safe even after having the Citadel taken over.  Without a complete catalogue of all colonized worlds and civilizations it would be much more difficult. 
- The Reapers are not indestructible.  A galaxy that was able to unite against them would be dangerous for them.
- It takes energy to fly in from deep space, and the trip would likely leave them weakened and vulnerable.

[Wynne]

I think the Reapers aren't quite that bad off, but there's a reason why they built the Mass Relays and made the Citadel into a giant one.

"We will find another way..." that's what ME2 was, another attempt at getting the Reapers back into Citadel space to begin the next harvest. I think the Human Reaper would have had advantages over us that the other Reapers didn't, being made from our species.

Regardless, they are cautious and always have a backup plan. They've shown that.

It could really go either way, but ME3 is simply NOT going to begin with the Reapers just popping in, whether because they can't or because they are too canny is interesting to ponder, but impossible to answer without more information.

[Schneidend]

ufoflieger wrote...

It may not be a safe assumption, but I consider it good enough. It may be off scale by a factor of 2 (or 4, or 8) but the dimension stays the same.

And.. every lightyear they are nearer to the galaxy than assumed strengthens the main argument: if they can FTL-traver to the galaxy in no time, why haven't they already done so? They would be so fast no sensor could see them coming in time, and they could - as mentioned before - attack the citadel first anyway.

That's why the more likely theory is that they'd have to make several high-energy FTL jumps over the course of a year or more, and that in doing so they'd be vulnerable when they dropped out of the jump, and would be detected long before they got to the Widow Nebula and the Citadel. This is a desperation move, and the reapers are only confident they can win because each of their ships is worth dozens of the Citadel races' ships even while low on power.

[marshalleck]

Pauravi wrote...

ufoflieger wrote...

And.. every lightyear they are nearer to the galaxy than assumed strengthens the main argument: if they can FTL-traver to the galaxy in no time, why haven't they already done so? They would be so fast no sensor could see them coming in time, and they could - as mentioned before - attack the citadel first anyway.

There are a number of good reasons why they would prefer not to that I have reiterated in similar threads.  The short versions are:

- The unannounced blitzrieg strategy disorganizes the defenders and makes organized resistance all but impossible
- Allowing the galactic community the time to safeguard their data makes it difficult, perhaps impossible for the Reapers to commit a complete genocide.  After all, the Protheans managed to keep Ilos safe even after having the Citadel taken over.  Without a complete catalogue of all colonized worlds and civilizations it would be much more difficult. 
- The Reapers are not indestructible.  A galaxy that was able to unite against them would be dangerous for them.
- It takes energy to fly in from deep space, and the trip would likely leave them weakened and vulnerable.

None of this explains why they didn't just fly back 1500 years ago then, when the whole Rachni plan didn't pan out.

Being able to simply fly back to the galaxy, whether it weakens them or not, severely undermines the logic of the first (and second?) game.

[Malanek]

marshalleck wrote...
None of this explains why they didn't just fly back 1500 years ago then, when the whole Rachni plan didn't pan out.

Perhaps that is when they started?

I don't think we know enough information to say one way or the other, the writers can go either way. However ultimately at some stage the reapers (or someone before them) flew out there to build the relays in the first place. That means it is possible. I think it might be a more interesting plot device to have some sort of different way back. Plus leave a few reapers (only a small number) intact and out there at the end of ME3. 

[Beechwell]

I'd agree that the Reapers probably can't reach the galaxy "on foot" easily. Otherwise the whole Saren scenario would feel a bit like that scene from Spaceballs. Where the President first tries to teleport to Dark Helmet, before deciding it's safer to just walk through the door.

It can't be because of the surprise factor, either, because anything emmited by a ship traveling faster-than-light would trail behind that ship, unless we are talking signals also significantly faster than light. Does the codex mention anything about that?



Of course it is possible that reaching the galaxy with some advanced FTL drive just means they reach Citadel space with depleted energy and are thus not invincible anymore.

Personally I just prefer the theory that they actually need a some kind of ME relay to get to the galaxy because it feels neater to just trap the Reapers in dark space, rather than force a direct confrontation that by all rights the Reapers would probably win. Not to mention that a galaxy-wide war against the Reapers would be hard to narrate properly in a single game.

[marshalleck]

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
None of this explains why they didn't just fly back 1500 years ago then, when the whole Rachni plan didn't pan out.

Perhaps that is when they started?

Ah, but then that means they're at least 1500 years from the dark space relay, so why did Sovereign try to open it?

People keep trying to turn this into some huge elaborate plot. It's just like Harbinger says. They're going to find another way. Another way to what? To open the Citadel relay and come flooding in, that's what. They aren't flying back under FTL, even super-advanced Reaper-FTL.

Modifié par marshalleck, 22 février 2010 - 01:05 .

[Trenrade]

If it took them 100,000 years to reach us, than the races of the galaxy probably will have advanced their tech enough to fight them off on their own.

[Malanek]

marshalleck wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
None of this explains why they didn't just fly back 1500 years ago then, when the whole Rachni plan didn't pan out.

Perhaps that is when they started?

Ah, but then that means they're at least 1500 years from the dark space relay, so why did Sovereign try to open it?

To split their forces up for plan b in case Sarens ploy failed.