59 réponses à ce sujet

[Atmosfear3]

On my first playthrough:

Legion vents, Jacob Fire team leader

Sent Grunt back, picked Samara, picked Jacob for 2nd team again

Took Thane and Miranda for end boss

All survived



After that, it was pretty much routine though I started sending Mordin back with the crew once I saw the value of Grunt. Haven't had one fatality yet!

[Seneva]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...
Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line. Don't think about offensive solo strikers. Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie. You want them to hold the line.

I don't buy this. Unless you can provide evidence or a dev confirms it then it is just speculation. The key is to have the ship upgrades, preferably everyone loyal, and picking the right squadmates for the vents, team leader, and bio dome. Whoever you bring on the final push and who is left behind to the line doesn't matter unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. I have 8 playthroughs with as many variables as I could with the exception of Legion/Tali vents, Garrus/Miranda leaders, Samara/Jack biodome, and have mixed up my squad for the final push in each playthrough and have never lost anyone.

http://social.bioware.com/878143/

[Kurt M.]

Put short and simple (1-char option, succesful results can also be reach using some other chars):

- All chars loyal.
- All Normandy suicide mission-related upgrades (get them from Tali, Garrus and Jacob).
- Tali as tech specialist.
- Samara/Morinth as biotic specialist.
- Send Mordin to escort the crew back to the Normandy.
- Garrus as leader in both distraction teams.
- Take weaklings (like Tali and Jack) with you to the final combat and leave heavy-weights like Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed holding the line.

Period.

And Zaeed scorting back the crew is a VERY BAD idea. He's much more useful as a defender in the holding line. Mordin is enough to do that.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 26 février 2010 - 06:08 .

[GeeMunkey]

Naturally only a tech specialist like Tali or Legion will work for the vents, only good fire team leaders are Garrus, Miranda, or Jacob. Biotic has to be Morinth/Samara or Jack. So far I've sent Jacob as the escort twice, and taken Tali and either Garrus or Miranda in the final battle, leaving loyal combat specialists like Zaeed and Grunt to hold the line got everyone out alive, even Mordin. Everyone being loyal helped too.

[Kurt M.]

Yes, it's pretty easy to get them all out alive. I think Bioware should have make that a bit harder, and punish more your wrong decisions, especially when holding the line.

[edermaldito]

Makes much more sense now.



I got Mordin killed once holding the line, but I was using Grunt and sent Zaeed back.

[rt604]

Seneva wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Dusty Everman wrote...
Basically you want your best DEFENDERS to hold the line. Don't think about offensive solo strikers. Think about the guys that can dig down and hold a position with moxie. You want them to hold the line.

I don't buy this. Unless you can provide evidence or a dev confirms it then it is just speculation. The key is to have the ship upgrades, preferably everyone loyal, and picking the right squadmates for the vents, team leader, and bio dome. Whoever you bring on the final push and who is left behind to the line doesn't matter unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. I have 8 playthroughs with as many variables as I could with the exception of Legion/Tali vents, Garrus/Miranda leaders, Samara/Jack biodome, and have mixed up my squad for the final push in each playthrough and have never lost anyone.

http://social.bioware.com/878143/

Hey Seneva where's the proof?  I know I had to leave Grunt behind, because that's the only way everyone could survive, because on my first play through with most upgrades and everyone loyal Tali or Garrus would die.  I sent Mordin back with the crew.  In the link above it's to someone's profile.  I'm not disputing your comments, I would just like a clear understanding of the mechanics of the last part; holding the line.  Plus I don't have Zaeed....yet.

Modifié par rt604, 26 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[RGFrog]

Infiltrator on Insanity.



I used tali for the tech crawl; Morinth as my biotic; Garus led both times. Miranda and Legion as first squad. Sent Zaeed back to escort crew. Mistake 1 from reading this thread but it worked.



Miranda and Mordin as second squad (biotic bubble) which was a huge mistake against the husks. I was infiltrator with Widow and Warp ammo. That alone and my spamming cloak saved me.



Final mission I took Mordin and Jack. Barely used either of them as Widow+full sniper damage+cloak bonus took out almost everything.



Brought along Cain for the final reaper showdown, but that wasn't even necessary with Widow+HeavyWarp+Cloak.



This was all on insanity. Mordin and Jack peppered the collectors as I shot the reaper.



Everyone survived. Since it was my Renegade play through, Cerberus got the base too.

[WillieStyle]

There isn't a unique solution to the "hold the line" problem.

One way to think of it is this:

-Everyone who you don't take to fight the final boss, or escort the crew back to the Normandy has a "hold the line" score.

-You sum up the "hold the line" scores to determine how many people left holding the line will live.

-If the total score is less than the number of people left holding the line, then the difference equals the number of people who die.

-The order in which squadmates die IS NOT based on their "hold the line" score. Disloyal squadmates will always die before loyal squadmates for instance.

So even though a disloyal Grunt has a higher "hold the line" score than a loyal Mordin, Grunt will die instead of Mordin if the total "hold the line" score isn't high enough.



Now, there are a few things you can guess about each person's "hold the line" score.

-Mordin/Tali/Jack have low scores.

-Grun/Zaeed/Garrus (and possibly Jacob) have high scores.

-Mordin's score is less than 1 even when he is loyal. This means that adding Mordin to your "hold the line" group increases the chances of someone dying (though it doesn't make a death inevitable).

-Grunt's score is greater than 1 even when he is disloyal. However, disloyal Grunt + loyal Mordin < 2.

-Loyal Grunt's score is probably greater than 2 so that having him there makes it unlikely that anyone will die.



Note that non of this means that you must have Grunt or Zaeed hold the line. It's possible that a loyal Garrus or Jacob has high enough "hold the line" score to keep Mordin/Tali alive. But sending Grunt to escort the crew and taking Zaeed and Garrus with you to fight the final boss, with everyone else still alive and loyal, will probably lead to Mordin getting killed.

[WillieStyle]

I am pretty sure that on one of my playthroughs, I used Grunt and Zaeed for the final battle and still everyone survived.

Who did you send to escort the crew back?

I suspec that if you took Grunt and Zaeed, and sent Garrus back with the crew, then Mordin would have died, even if everyone was loyal.

[Urazz]

You need at least two of the heavy combat hitters to be on hold the line from my guess. That's Garrus, Zaeed, and Grunt. On my first playthrough I had Garrus escort the crew but had Grunt and Zaeed on holding the line.

[Seneva]

I have no reason whatsoever not to believe what Dusty Everman wrote.



It does make sense aswell. The hold the line part is where the combat hardened chracters shine in. Every char can kill a collector but not ever char works well under extreme pressure. I can imagine a non-combat hardened character stressing out and making a mistake that will end his/her life. However characters like Grunt, Zaeed, Jacob and Garrus are veterans at combat. They don't stress out as easely as "specialists" hence they are the last to die.



This is a "war" situation and those that relish in combat are the ones you want to bunker down. A Jack or a Mordin or a Tali aren't frontline soldiers. Samara neither. 1 on 1 they can easely kill but facing overwhelming odds, no that's not where their specialty lies.

[dragonstriker]

I had max paragon and all members loyal. I had all upgrades except the 5th biotic and lattice shunting. I used Tali as my tech and she was my only fatality... any ides why?

[Seneva]

Where did she die? Who were your firesquad leaders?

[dragonstriker]

She died closing the door at the rendezvous point, immediately after the first stage. Put her head in the way of a harbinger biotic blast.... Miranda and Legion were with me, Samara led the other team - they were all fine.

I did this section three times, 2 on veteran, 1 on casual to see if finishing it quicker made a difference. It didn't.

[Seneva]

So Samara was the 1st fire squad leader. She isn't a leader type and because of that she will cause the specialist (in your case, tali) to die.

[dragonstriker]

Okay, thanks Seneva.

[ssgstank]

I guess I got lucky on my first go through. I had Tally as the tec, Maranda as team leader, Samara as my shield, I think Iused Mordin as escort and lost no team members. I was happy that Kelly Chambers was reduced to biomass.