150 réponses à ce sujet

[Pauravi]

I've tried it both ways, but I like to get Garrus to spare Sidonis.

In the long run, revenge doesn't solve anything and Garrus would most likely suffer some kind of guilt from killing his own friend, even as angry as he was at him. Sidonis was not going to harm anyone, and he promises to try and make it up to him. There probably isn't anything he can do to fully make up for it, but at least with sparing him there is some good that can come of the whole ordeal. If you kill him there is none.

[TudorWolf]

I stop him, every time.



Garrus is obsessed with getting revenge throughout, on the assumption that Sidonis willingly betrayed him. When you actually speak with him though, it's obvious Sidonis is already "dead", his guilt has consumed him.

Not only that, but I actually think that Sidonis saved Garrus, but it's just never brought up. Garrus mentioned that Sidonis lured him away when the attack happened. This act likely saved Garrus' life, chances are he'd have been killed if he'd been there like the others.



Garrus has a good heart that was clouded by anger and lust for revenge, but making him listen to what Sidonis actually has to say shows him that revenge isn't the right way to handle it. He's able to put the past behind him and move forward without blood on his hands.





Now, of course this all my opinion, but that's how I feel on the matter

[InvaderErl]

Not to contend with the rest of your post, but I got the impression that luring Garrus away was done on the part of the mercs, rather than some kind of save on Sidonis' part, so they wouldn't have to fight Garrus alongside his men. Its clear that they were scared ****less of him and wanted him away from the others.

Its not as if Sidonis left a message warning him of the betrayal, a clear case of divide and conquer.

[Kolaris8472]

The Angry One wrote...
Unsatisfying as it was.
No not unsatisfying as in "revenge is ultimately empty" but unsatisfying as in "C'mon Tim Curry you can do better last words than that."

What? I still remember them. 

"Maker spit on you! I deserved....more!"

Not better. More. Was a fitting end and fitting last words, even if I would have ironically liked more out of Howe as he bleeds out. Specifically if you're a Human Noble. 

[InvaderErl]

A kick the corpse option would have helped.

[cruc1al]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Delta426 wrote...

The chioce to kill or spare Sidonis must ultimately lie with Garrus. It is your duty as a friend to present him with that choice.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Except techincally he doesn't have a choice. You know you're the only thing preventing Sidonis from getting a hole in the head. If you in real life knew your friend is going to take revenge on another person unless you stop him, would you refrain from interfering if you think the revenge is immoral (alternatively, would you think not interfering would be immoral of you)? If you weren't sure whether that person is going to take revenge, that is another matter; but you're sure Garrus is going to kill Sidonis unless you stop him.

[enormousmoonboots]

InvaderErl wrote...

To be fair, Jaroth's brother likely had it coming.

Well, if someone murdered my brother, I don't care whether he 'had it coming', I would ruin that person.

[BlindBay7]

I've only played it with letting Garrus take the shot, is he still loyal even if you save Sidonis?

[InvaderErl]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

To be fair, Jaroth's brother likely had it coming.

Well, if someone murdered my brother, I don't care whether he 'had it coming', I would ruin that person.

Sure but that's not a failure of Garrus' morality somehow.

[KnotEngaged]

I have always felt that Garrus and Shepard not only share a close friendship, but that they also have a sort of Mentor-Pupil relationship. Garrus in ME2 was so heavily shaped by your actions in ME1, and he places a high value on your opinion and holds in the highest regard no matter what. As someone who often has trouble deciding the "right" course of action is in game I had trouble with several of the loyalty missions. Tali, Jacob, Legion, and Garrus were some of the hardest.



With Garrus I completely understood his point of view and his desire to kill Sidonis, and I felt the same way, he deserved to die. But I thought about how much Garrus looks up to Shepard, and much my choices influence him and the person he will/is becoming. So even though I wanted to kill Sidonis, in the end I felt like Garrus deserved to be better than that. I didn't want him to give into a gut reaction like that and do something that he might later reflect on with regret.

[Internet Kraken]

KnotEngaged wrote...

I have always felt that Garrus and Shepard not only share a close friendship, but that they also have a sort of Mentor-Pupil relationship. Garrus in ME2 was so heavily shaped by your actions in ME1, and he places a high value on your opinion and holds in the highest regard no matter what. 

Only if you're a renegade. I was a paragon, and Garrus ended up doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do. It was like he had ignored everything I said to him.

[Mondo_]

Does this effect what Garrus says in anyway, he pretty much had nothing to say except one conversation after his loyalty mission, and he said one thing to Tali on the Citadel.

[Erszebeth]

Garrus doesn't seem obsessed, he seems to really know what he wants. He's not acting as the Garrus from ME1, but as the Garrus who had 10 men killed under his leadership.



What would Shepard do if one of his/her recruits went on a rampage and killed some of his/her crew ?

[Gamine]

I did both: first time I let him shoot Sidonis. It felt cheap, in terms of character development and story. I felt slighted, and Garrus didn't seem to get any peace from it whatsoever. So I immediately reloaded and stepped in. It felt like the better decision, he doesn't go off on Shepard like Zaeed does when he's denied his revenge, which in my mind means it was never as important to him as he thought it would be.

You get his loyalty either way, but I'm happy with my decision. He needed closure, not revenge.

[silentstephi]

The one thing about this mission is that in order to get the most information out of him, you have to act counter to what you are (in my case, I play Renegade.)



If you're already playing the paragon, you get the full story. Playing the renegade gets you /claps hands, That's all set.



So I felt slightly jipped out of story the first time I played through.



Granted, in my second play, I milked it out. Questioned Garrus, questioned his resolve on this, because if he was going to go that route, down that path, I wanted to make sure he had thought it out, to make him realize exactly what he was doing.



Sidonus confessed his emptiness. I let Garrus shoot him. Why? Because at that point, he was doing Sidonus a favor.

[Weskerr]

Internet Kraken wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

I have always felt that Garrus and Shepard not only share a close friendship, but that they also have a sort of Mentor-Pupil relationship. Garrus in ME2 was so heavily shaped by your actions in ME1, and he places a high value on your opinion and holds in the highest regard no matter what. 

Only if you're a renegade. I was a paragon, and Garrus ended up doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do. It was like he had ignored everything I said to him.

I've always wondered if the dialogue choices you make in conversations with Garrus in ME1 would affect Garrus's outlook in ME2. In ME1 I played as a paragon, but (unknowingly at the time) always picked the "renegade" options. For example, I agreed with Garrus that shooting down Dr. Heart's fleeing ship with innocents onboard was better than letting him get away and thus allowing him to kill them anyway. When we found Dr. Heart, I chose the option that said something like "[Let Garrus shoot him]."

So if you chose all the "paragon" dialogue options in conversations with Garrus in ME1, Garrus's dialogue doesn't change at all in ME2 from what it would be if you chose all "renegade" dialogue options with him in ME1?

[anmiro]

I talked him out of it. My Shepard is a paragon obviously, but I agree that letting kill Sedonis would do more damage to Garrus than good and personally, I think letting some one like Sedonis live with their shame is a far greater punishment. Whats that line from 300 "May you live forever."

[DarkNova50]

My first run through, I let Garrus take him out, because that's what my Shep would have done in his place.

My next run, however, I'm going to stop him. Not because my Shep wouldn't do it...he still would. But he's an imperfect hero, and he knows it.



He wants Garrus to be better than that.

[MikeFL25]

>.>



I didn't even know you could stop Garrus. And the "take the shot" is on the left where the Paragon choices are..so I figured letting Garrus kill him was the best thing to do.



In ME1, I always tried to make Garrus a paragon. On his mission with Dr. Saleon, I told him not to kill the doctor, and after the doctor attacked us and died, I told him "you can't control their actions but you can control how you will react."



So how do you stop Garrus from killing Sedonis, and how does he react afterwards?

[kanodin]

Weskerr wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

I have always felt that Garrus and Shepard not only share a close friendship, but that they also have a sort of Mentor-Pupil relationship. Garrus in ME2 was so heavily shaped by your actions in ME1, and he places a high value on your opinion and holds in the highest regard no matter what. 

Only if you're a renegade. I was a paragon, and Garrus ended up doing the exact opposite of what he said he would do. It was like he had ignored everything I said to him.

I've always wondered if the dialogue choices you make in conversations with Garrus in ME1 would affect Garrus's outlook in ME2. In ME1 I played as a paragon, but (unknowingly at the time) always picked the "renegade" options. For example, I agreed with Garrus that shooting down Dr. Heart's fleeing ship with innocents onboard was better than letting him get away and thus allowing him to kill them anyway. When we found Dr. Heart, I chose the option that said something like "[Let Garrus shoot him]."

So if you chose all the "paragon" dialogue options in conversations with Garrus in ME1, Garrus's dialogue doesn't change at all in ME2 from what it would be if you chose all "renegade" dialogue options with him in ME1?

It's actually very disappointing if you were a paragon with garrus, as he seems to have completely forgotten everything you said to him and is exactly the same as with renegade options. There is one change, while on his loyalty mission if you convinced him to keep Dr. Saleon alive you can say you never taught him that it was alright to kill criminals or something to that effect but it's a fairly minor line.

[cipher_Cero]

I let Garrus take the shot on my first playthrough.

It felt really cheap and unsatisfying, to tell you the truth. It didn't seem to do Garrus any good or give him any closure. It just seemed like he had an easier time tucking it away in the back of his head. He definitely seemed to continue carrying that weight.

So, on my second playthrough, I let Sidonis live.

That choice seemed to have a bigger impact on Garrus than I thought it would have. Garrus still could have taken the shot if he felt like it, and I was expecting him to. Yes, in-game it's your choice, but Garrus himself tells you that he couldn't do it. He hears how Sidonis is just this ghost of a turian who's haunted by his own decisions and couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger. In-game you make the choice, but it was Garrus who couldn't find it in himself to do so.
Miranda and Jack both disagree with you at first when you stop them from killing in their loyalty missions. Garrus doesn't question it in the least.
It made me see how letting him take the shot just was not in his character at all. From my standpoint, if I let Garrus take his revenge I would have been letting him solve a situation in a way that would compromise who he is, which in the long run would have been a terrible decision on both our parts.

It felt a little more fulfilling, to be honest.

That's how I saw it, anyway.

[Reptilian Rob]

I couldn't let him turn out the way my Shepard did, a cold heartless bastard of a man (yet still has full Paragon). I had to stop him, talk him out of it. At one point he was on the verge of tears (shaky voice), but he'll be a better man because of not assassinating the soul stripped Sidonis.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 22 février 2010 - 03:49 .

[huntrrz]

anmiro wrote...

I talked him out of it. My Shepard is a paragon obviously, but I agree that letting kill Sedonis would do more damage to Garrus than good and personally, I think letting some one like Sedonis live with their shame is a far greater punishment.

THIS.  Letting him live consumed by guilt is actually the more vindictive revenge - and one that doesn't put more blood on Garrus' hands.

MikeFL25 wrote...

So how do you stop Garrus from killing Sedonis, and how does he react afterwards?

I have a high paragon score and repeatedly questioned Garrus as we worked our way toward Sedonis, so that may have primed some of the options I was given.  "Warn Sedonis", then use a paragon interupt to pull him back from stepping into Garrus' sights, "Let me talk to him" then... I forget how it's labeled, but it's an obvious 'there's no point in killing him, he's already dead/paying for his crime' option.

It seemed fairly straightforward to me, but I don't know if there are preconditions to getting those options.

[Akrylik]

for the record, isn't this entire scenario almost exactly ripped off of GTAIV?