150 réponses à ce sujet

[Chained_Creator]

I never let Garrus shoot Sidonis. It is anathema to me.

[Chained_Creator]

I never let Garrus shoot Sidonis. It is anathema to me.

[huntrrz]

aksoileau wrote...

I'm very paragon when I play, but I tossed that fool out the window and killed that merc in Miranda's mission, so I let Garrus take the shot. Can't be a hypocrite!

I'm very paragon also, but I took a couple of renegade interrupts to kill people I was going to have to fight and kill regardless - the interrupt just let me do it in a cool way. 

I didn't push the merc out the window, though.  Letting one I didn't have to kill go just proves how much of a badass I am. 

[AtreiyaN7]

I talked Garrus out of killing Sidonis, because I believe that Garrus would have regretted killing him in time. I think he was confusing revenge with justice and needed to see what Sidonis had become so that he could let it go. When one becomes obsessed with revenge, it usually doesn't turn out well even if you do achieve your goal (on a psychological level, in my opinion).

[c0ns]

flem1 wrote...

Let me put it this way -- if he had betrayed you and gotten Garrus, Tali, and the rest of your team killed, what would you have done?

Protecting him from dirty things you would have to do is to treat him as a child.

What a naive post this is.

You can't just compare complex situations with very detailed and important circumstances in a vacuum like that. That's not how **** works.

And what you do for Garrus in game is a hell a lot different from treating him like a child. You're not just protecting him from 'dirty things.' You're helping out a friend during an extremely distressing time.

You're not protecting him from anything actually. like many have said, the ultimate choice is his.

[Thiev]

c0ns wrote...
And what you do for Garrus in game is a hell a lot different from treating him like a child. You're not just protecting him from 'dirty things.' You're helping out a friend during an extremely distressing time.

You're not protecting him from anything actually. like many have said, the ultimate choice is his.

^This.
Before the mission, my Shepard wasn't dead set on keeping Sidonis alive. All she've done was getting confession out of him, to hear his side of the story. Final decision belonged to Garrus.

[aksoileau]

Also, even if sidonis is a broken man, he could betray again with nothing left to lose. Think of Elnora on the Samara mission. She plays you like a fiddle if you let her go. Some people just need killing.

[Danaih]

There is a big difference, to me, in the molding of his character in ME1 and ME2.  In ME1, it's about making him more concerned with the innocents he is supposed to be protecting.  Not sacrificing them for the end goal.  Keeping him from being like Saren.  In ME2, it's about whether he gets the revenge he wanted for Sidonis or lives with the self-inflicted torment Sidonis is now having to live with.

My first playthrough, pure paragon, I didn't let Garrus simply kill Dr. Saleon, and I saved Sidonis.  I had felt bad for Garrus not getting the kind of closure he desired.  He didn't seem as content with a paragon conclusion as the other squad members were.

On my second playthrough, a woman intending to be with Garrus, I still didn't let him kill Dr. Saleon.  He's grateful after the fact.  With Sidonis however... I tried to talk Garrus out of revenge while leading up to him.  I warned Sidonis, I paragon interrupted him to keep him covered, and I spoke to him.  Sidonis talked about how empty life was now for him and how he may as well be dead.  It appeared to me that Garrus had been taking in what Sidonis said, his mood had changed somewhat, but he still wanted this...  and it seemed like Sidonis didn't really care at this point anyways.  I decided to move aside instead of pleading with Garrus to not take the shot.

Garrus had the opportunity to hear for himself why Sidonis had done it, and how he felt about it.  He still wanted revenge/justice for himself and his team.  With him being more important to this character, I backed down.  This character took on a bit of a renegade streak after her death.  She was pure paragon in ME1.  I let her death change her way of dealing with criminals.  Hell, her death changed most of the people close to her as well in one way or another.  Garrus had it extremely tough during those two years.  He had been pretty suggestible personality-wise in the first game, but 'life' changed him.  He had become more of his own man.  I wasn't going to take that away from him.  This was *his* loyalty mission.  Seeing the differences in his reaction to the outcomes, I have to say that any character of mine that cares about him will let him make an informed decision (while still killing Sidonis).

What this means for him in ME3 if anything, I don't know.  I can only hope it's not drastic.  I will have the opportunity to see both outcomes. I love his character and want him alive and content at the end of it all, paragon or renegade.

Modifié par Danaih, 22 février 2010 - 11:08 .

[B1GBOSS]

Sidonis betrayed Garrus and his squad so Garrus should rightfully get revenge on him.

[Bootsykk]

Here's how I thought of it... Garrus had two options: kill Sidonis or just confront him about what he did.



If you read in the codex, Turians have a very deep-rooted code of honor, and practically all of them would confess to their crime if directly confronted. The reason why Garrus so badly wanted to kill Sidonis is because he was still so upset by what happened to his crew. Garrus from ME1 (at least, how I interpreted him) wasn't someone to just kill out of cold blood. So I just decided to help him out a little.



Afterwards, once he's heard Sidonis' confession and immense guilt (and is on his way to turn himself in) he admits that he just wouldn't be able to go through with it. Either way he's pleased that the situation was taken care of, but I personally prefer Garrus as the lawful renegade rather than the renegade vigilante.



Also, unlike, lets sayyyy... Doctor Saleon, Sidonis actually felt an immense guilt over what he'd done, even commented that he sometimes wished he'd died. I let Garrus shoot Doctor Saleon because he was a wanted criminal as well as sadistic.

[MajorStranger]

B1GBOSS wrote...

Sidonis betrayed Garrus and his squad so Garrus should rightfully get revenge on him.

but doing so won't help garrus. After he become empty and even more distant than before

[Zulu_DFA]

Simply put, saving Sidonis (without metagaming) is largely the same as saving Morinth. Except for Sidonis can't kill Garrus in that situation and is apparently helpless.



It must also be noted, that Garrus is clear about his desire to put an end to his story by killing Sidonis. Sheprard, has no real interest in the situation apart from helping Garrus and returning to more important things (see Saving the F*cking Galaxy) ASAP. Sidonis is a total stranger and there is no reason to doubt Garrus's version of the story, especially since it is supported by Shepard's own experience (merc leaders' "testimony"). Thus, any attempt to save Sidonis is just an unhealthily self-righteous tendency of bossing every situation to total moral attrition. In real life it kills friendship. Either you repect your "friends" choices on matters that are more important for them then for you, or you try to boss them -- either successfully to become a boss, or not to become an unwanted pain in the arse. Obviously, Shepard can assume the role of Garrus's boss, but let's not rant much about friendship then, and it's very inefficient trying to manage every personal matter of your subordinates in your own way, unless it directly interferes with your objectives (which is not the case in that situation).

[Kenshen]

Well my take on this mission was that Garrus was doubting himself as a leader and that killing Sidonis was the only way he could regain that swagger. Considering what he was doing before you meet up with him it looks to me that he is/was becoming a cold blooded (no pun if he actually is cold blooded) killer. By stopping him from getting the revenge it does open his eyes a little.

[Legbiter]

I'm helping my best bud Garrus out. He's not taggin along with me on my mission, I'm tagging along on his. Even as a paragon I always let him take the shot. If my Shep had been betrayed and Tali and Garrus had died as a result, you bet I'd be out gunning for whoever SOB did it. And I wouldn't be swayed to mercy by some tearjerker story about having trouble sleeping.

[Bigdoser]

what you tell him in me1 does affect him when u are going after harkin u say are you going to be satisfied with killing him? then if u are paragon he says i know you wont like this shepard if you are renegade he says just like you taught me. As a paragon i did not let him take the shot because garrus would become more distant and empty imo.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 23 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[phatpat63]

It's not about Sidonis, it's about Garrus. That's the clever trap made for the player. It's made very clear that Garrus blames himself for the deaths of his squadmates, the game stops just short of bludgeoning you over the head with that fact.

His desire for revenge isn't about justice or even vendetta, it's about his own sense of overwhelming guilt. He thinks that somehow killing Sidonis will make it up to those people he feels like he let down. Of course it won't.

So I have to opt for letting Sidonis go. Not because the cowardly little ****** deserves a second chance or because killing is wrong, but because Garrus needs to stop blaming himself before he can move on. Putting a new hole in some traitors head isn't exactly going to help him do that.

If you let him take that shot he'll have to keep on telling himself he had to do it for his squad in order to justify it, so he'll never be able to let it go, and expect to see a Garrus in ME3 that is angry and broken.

If you let Sidonis go however Garrus will have to confront his grief and guilt. You would expect for that to be difficult for him, but in ME3 you might just see a Garrus who's whole again.

[Markinator_123]

Garrus is so much like the punisher in this game, it is unreal.

[Bigdoser]

phatpat63 wrote...

It's not about Sidonis, it's about Garrus. That's the clever trap made for the player. It's made very clear that Garrus blames himself for the deaths of his squadmates, the game stops just short of bludgeoning you over the head with that fact.
His desire for revenge isn't about justice or even vendetta, it's about his own sense of overwhelming guilt. He thinks that somehow killing Sidonis will make it up to those people he feels like he let down. Of course it won't.
So I have to opt for letting Sidonis go. Not because the cowardly little ****** deserves a second chance or because killing is wrong, but because Garrus needs to stop blaming himself before he can move on. Putting a new hole in some traitors head isn't exactly going to help him do that.
If you let him take that shot he'll have to keep on telling himself he had to do it for his squad in order to justify it, so he'll never be able to let it go, and expect to see a Garrus in ME3 that is angry and broken.
If you let Sidonis go however Garrus will have to confront his grief and guilt. You would expect for that to be difficult for him, but in ME3 you might just see a Garrus who's whole again.

This makes alot of sense.

[SharpEdgeSoda]

I let him take the shot. I mean, I see no reason to "warn him" and let him get away. I wouldn't betray Garrus like that.



I know through other people that Sidonis had a "reason," but I don't think Shepard had the foresight to think "maybe if I let him go he will explain himself to me later.



I think the realistic thing is to let Garrus take the shot. Doing the other thing just seem like a naive move, that, for some reason, pays off.

[Darthnemesis2]

Garrus was always a renegade, even in ME1 he was more interested in catching the bad guys than saving the good guys. His squad on Omega would have been a perfect fit for him, he even says so himself. When Sidonis betrays him, Garrus sees him as another criminal that needs to be brought to justice. In this case, justice involves Sidonis' death because Sidonis killed ten other people. My main Shep has no problem with that and let Garrus take his shot. Does that make him a bad friend? Hell no! By allowing Garrus to take the shot, Shep allows Garrus to close that chapter of his life. Was it a dark chapter with a dark ending? Yes. But Garrus' personality type is strong enough that something like that won't distract him from his purpose (which is ultimately killing bad guys).

On the flip side, my other (paragon) shep stopped Garrus from taking the shot because she, unlike Garrus, believes that there is more to justice than a criminal lying dead with a bullet in his brain. When Garrus realizes what's really going through Sidonis' head he falters, doesn't take the shot, but its not really his decision, Shepard had to convince him to change his mind. Garrus says it himself, its easier when things are black and white. His outlook on life has changed, maybe killing all those people before was wrong too. Is he now supposed to feel guilty about all the other people he's killed in his life?

[InvaderErl]

MajorStranger wrote...

B1GBOSS wrote...

Sidonis betrayed Garrus and his squad so Garrus should rightfully get revenge on him.

but doing so won't help garrus. After he become empty and even more distant than before

Evidence?

[Ajspeed]

I did find Garrus's one particularly had to think what might be best for Garrus's emotional state

[enormousmoonboots]

Chained_Creator wrote...

I never let Garrus shoot Sidonis. It is anathema to me.

...totally read this in Samara's voice.

[Azorgamer]

As for me, I've played twice and the first playthrough I played as "myself", probably about 70% Paragon and 30% Renegade and I let Garrus shoot the guy. That guy was responsible for killing off his entire crew. I felt he deserved it. In the second playthrough, I played all Paragon - I know I can't play all Renegade and get all the Renegade options, so I wanted to have access to all Paragon options. I have to admit, letting Garrus allow the guy to live actually made me feel good. It seemed that Garrus let go of some of that anger that was destroying him.



I've always seen Garrus as a loyal friend to Shepard but slightly a hothead, so I like that Shepard pulls him back a bit and makes Garrus think things over. I definitely don't want Garrus to become a pansy - but having him think things over a bit more would be good for him. I think if I were to play again I might stick with having him let the guy live.