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[Massadonious1]

Garrus tells you that he'll live with the consequences, but do you really want to make him do that? He's killed plenty of mercs, plenty of people that wanted to see him dead, but I truly felt this would be one kill that he would regret for the rest of his life.



I know it's all moot from a metagaming standpoint, as either choice results in mission completion, but I do hope ME3 carries over this decision, instead of making no mention of it like the Saleon decision.



It would be interesting to see his character evolve based on what you helped him do.

[Zulu_DFA]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Chained_Creator wrote...

I never let Garrus shoot Sidonis. It is anathema to me.

...totally read this in Samara's voice.

Samara would kill Sidonis without second thought.
(Sold out buddies = wicked beyond redemption = dead meat)

[Zulu_DFA]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Garrus tells you that he'll live with the consequences, but do you really want to make him do that? He's killed plenty of mercs, plenty of people that wanted to see him dead, but I truly felt this would be one kill that he would regret for the rest of his life.

I know it's all moot from a metagaming standpoint, as either choice results in mission completion, but I do hope ME3 carries over this decision, instead of making no mention of it like the Saleon decision.

It would be interesting to see his character evolve based on what you helped him do.

A brief study in psychology.

It's easeir not to regret a taken step that can't be undone, than a step not taken while the opportunity was present.

Garrus takes the shot = Sidonis dies = cannot be undone. No point in regret.

Garrus does not take the shot = Sidonis lives = can be fixed, but at a higher price. Much room for doubts, regrets and second-guessing for the rest of the life. Multiply that by the factor of the turian compelling sense of duty, of which Garrus has above average.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 février 2010 - 06:33 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Garrus tells you that he'll live with the consequences, but do you really want to make him do that? He's killed plenty of mercs, plenty of people that wanted to see him dead, but I truly felt this would be one kill that he would regret for the rest of his life.

I know it's all moot from a metagaming standpoint, as either choice results in mission completion, but I do hope ME3 carries over this decision, instead of making no mention of it like the Saleon decision.

It would be interesting to see his character evolve based on what you helped him do.

A brief study in psychology.

It's easeir not to regret a taken step that can't be undone, than a step not taken while the opportunity was present.

Garrus takes the shot = Sidonis dies = cannot be undone. No point in regret.

Garrus does not take the shot = Sidonis lives = can be fixed, but at a higher price. Much room for doubts, regrets and second-guessing for the rest of the life. Multiply that by the factor of the turian compelling sense of duty, of which Garrus has above average.

Really? I'd have thought it'd be the other way around.

[Zulu_DFA]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

It's easeir not to regret a taken step that can't be undone, than a step not taken while the opportunity was present.

Really? I'd have thought it'd be the other way around.

I'm not sure I follow...

[Gill Kaiser]

Well, if you shoot someone, that's something that can never be undone, and I'd have thought that would provoke a lot of guilty feelings somewhere down the line, and doubt about whether it was the correct choice. If the guy is left alive, you can consider that you've taken the high road, and if you at any point decide that you made the wrong call, you can just go and try again.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 23 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

The opportunity may not present itself again if you decide to spare him only to regret it later. It's like hypothetically leaving the collector base intact, believing that if you feel you made the wrong choice, you could just rig the bomb to be remotely detonated by you as and when you see fit. Life doesn't allow you the luxury of that degree of freedom of choice, and neither does this game.

[Jimbe2693]

Revenge isn't really worth it, imho

I prefer talking Garrus out of it, and it seems like Shepard and Garrus become closer because of it.



Letting him take revenge is too cold for me

[aznsoisauce]

Juneya wrote...
Also, unlike, lets sayyyy... Doctor Saleon, Sidonis actually felt an immense guilt over what he'd done, even commented that he sometimes wished he'd died. I let Garrus shoot Doctor Saleon because he was a wanted criminal as well as sadistic.

This mirrors my feelings...

Doctor Saleon was a monster. Sidonis is a pathetic excuse of sentient life and a sad example of "human nature" and survival instincts. He knows it, and that should be enough. Sidonis is someone that was once good and may very well still be. The same cannot be said about Saleon.

Garrus' clouded judgement will not be able to see this, however. I thought Garrus would change his mind and not take the shot. I made the mistake of moving out of the way the last chance the loyalty mission gives you. Never again. Poor Garrus has enough fuel for his probable case of PTSD in the future.

If you're Garrus' friend/Bro, you don't help him make a decision that benefits no one.

[Zulu_DFA]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Well, if you shoot someone, that's something that can never be undone, and I'd have thought that would provoke a lot of guilty feelings somewhere down the line, and doubt about whether it was the correct choice. If the guy is left alive, you can consider that you've taken the high road, and if you at any point decide that you made the wrong call, you can just go and try again.

They say, every time you kill, it gets a little easier. I can understand Thane, who wants to prevent his son from making his 1st kill. But it's not like Garrus is a virgin...

[aznsoisauce]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Well, if you shoot someone, that's something that can never be undone, and I'd have thought that would provoke a lot of guilty feelings somewhere down the line, and doubt about whether it was the correct choice. If the guy is left alive, you can consider that you've taken the high road, and if you at any point decide that you made the wrong call, you can just go and try again.

They say, every time you kill, it gets a little easier. I can understand Thane, who wants to prevent his son from making his 1st kill. But it's not like Garrus is a virgin...

For this topic? It's all about the "who" not the "what."

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

aznsoisauce wrote...
If you're Garrus' friend/Bro, you don't help him make a decision that benefits no one.

Well it's not like we have a choice on that matter. There have been other simialr instances, for example I really would've preferred Legion to make the call on the heretic reprogramming/destruction since it should be a decision for the geth, by the geth. But of course he shafted the choice to me, just like how pretty much every other loyalty mission's outcome hinges on what option you pick at the wheel. That's how the game works.

[Zulu_DFA]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

They say, every time you kill, it gets a little easier. I can understand Thane, who wants to prevent his son from making his 1st kill. But it's not like Garrus is a virgin...

For this topic? It's all about the "who" not the "what."

Again I'm not sure I follow.

[aznsoisauce]

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...
If you're Garrus' friend/Bro, you don't help him make a decision that benefits no one.

Well it's not like we have a choice on that matter. There have been other simialr instances, for example I really would've preferred Legion to make the call on the heretic reprogramming/destruction since it should be a decision for the geth, by the geth. But of course he shafted the choice to me, just like how pretty much every other loyalty mission's outcome hinges on what option you pick at the wheel. That's how the game works.

I fail to see how this relates to my post, but I understand what you're saying. Anyway... Garrus' made the choice to kill Sidonis. Shepard can choose to be a friend or be an accomplice.

[aznsoisauce]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

They say, every time you kill, it gets a little easier. I can understand Thane, who wants to prevent his son from making his 1st kill. But it's not like Garrus is a virgin...

For this topic? It's all about the "who" not the "what."

Again I'm not sure I follow.

What = A kill is a kill is a kill.

Who = The target isn't just anyone, it's someone that Garrus once trusted. Sidonis betrayed Garrus, but a person is gravely mistaken if they think they can rightly judge what Sidonis did. Besides, the guy is genuinely remorseful.

The question posed in the topic's title is "How does a true friend help Garrus?" My argument is that a true friend doesn't help Garrus kill Sidonis. So, I would say that the question revolves around the who's of the mission: Garrus and Sidonis. 

...I'm just trying to say that if you don't care about Garrus, then go ahead and kill Sidonis. He wants to die and you know you want him to die, too.

I don't really care, either way.

[Zulu_DFA]

I know one thing for certain. It's very unhealthy to stay on someone's line of fire longer then your mission parameters require you to.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 février 2010 - 07:58 .

[aznsoisauce]

...I lol'd.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...


Well it's not like we have a choice on that matter. There have been other simialr instances, for example I really would've preferred Legion to make the call on the heretic reprogramming/destruction since it should be a decision for the geth, by the geth. But of course he shafted the choice to me, just like how pretty much every other loyalty mission's outcome hinges on what option you pick at the wheel. That's how the game works.

I fail to see how this relates to my post, but I understand what you're saying. Anyway... Garrus' made the choice to kill Sidonis. Shepard can choose to be a friend or be an accomplice.

IMO you can let him take the shot and still be his friend. Debating on the right/wrong philosophy behind the choice is just goig to go in circles anyway since it's all subjective (remember Samara's 'killing a devoted father' comment). Ultimately I would choose to believe Garrus is fully aware of his actions and prepared to shoulder the responsibility of what he does, and I choose to respect his decision rather than try to force my perceptions of right or wrong down his throat. That's why I was disappointed that Bioware made you the pivotal decision maker in all the loyalty quests, it's taking the whole "this is Shepard's story" thing a bit too far.

A similar developement can be seen for Liara, who's also next in line for the whole "vengeance-obsessed" thing

[Burdokva]

I let Sidonis die, every single time. I would even take the shot, if there was an option.



Just for Garrus' sake, I let Sidonis confess first. However he feels inside, guilt or no, he deserved to die. He betrayed his friends and colleagues, good people who tried to make life better for the people of Omega. And yes, greed doesn't necessarily mean he wants money - he preferred his own life over that of a dozen other people, who had families left behind for the sake of their jobs.



Sidonis felt guilty? He should! And that doesn't mean he won't get over it, be it a week, month or an year. And then continue on with his life as if nothing happened. Such people deserve to die. When playing, try to place Shepard in the position of the families of dead (you even get an email from the widow of one of Garrus' squad members) and then ask if you should grant that damned coward his life.



Paragon, Renagade, ramifications in ME3, I don't care. I can't force myself to let him live on..

[slackbheep]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point that in the end due to your actions (Assuming you stop him, that is) Garrus DECIDES not to take the shot. At no point does Shepard whack him on the nose with a newspaper and tell him that assassinations are bad. Simplified, your choices are to not question your friend and assist him in claiming his revenge, or to give voice to the situations uncertainties.

[Zulu_DFA]

Garrus always was suspected of being a bit spineless.

Sidonis chose to betray his mates. Then he regretted that choice.
Garrus decided to kill Sidonis, then he changes his heart in less than five minutes. So, is he any better? Next thing he goes for may be selling Shepard out to anyone with high enough "Charm"?

Are all turians like that? Saren chose to side with the Reapers, then could be swayed to repent and shoot himself. That's just pathetic. I think the Refund Guy should keep trying.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 février 2010 - 10:01 .

[matt-bassist]

Garrus is a true bro.

[Icinix]

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

[Zulu_DFA]

Icinix wrote...

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

It's not a clean job. I bet at N7 training they don't teach you to warn your targets.