150 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

It's not a clean job. I bet at N7 training they don't teach you to warn your targets.

They also didn't tell me to play with my food, but I did that too.

[Zulu_DFA]

matt-bassist wrote...

Garrus is a true bro.

Cain used to be a true bro too.

[Zulu_DFA]

Icinix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

It's not a clean job. I bet at N7 training they don't teach you to warn your targets.

They also didn't tell me to play with my food, but I did that too.

You may die of hunger someday

[Icinix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

It's not a clean job. I bet at N7 training they don't teach you to warn your targets.

They also didn't tell me to play with my food, but I did that too.

You may die of hunger someday

My mother also said I might go blind....
wait. Thats too much information isn't it?

Modifié par Icinix, 23 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[lltoon]

Bromance.... It's all about bromance...

[tanarri23]

My primary Shep (a Renegade) let Garrus kill Sidonis - sure, it's not a clear-cut case of black and white, but nothing ever is. Whatever Sidonis's motivation for doing what he did, ultimately it doesn't change that he betrayed his team and got them all killed.

Modifié par tanarri23, 23 février 2010 - 10:54 .

[Annora]

I've always allowed Garrus to make his own decisions. He shot Dr. Saleon, and he shot Sidonis. He's a big boy, he's capable of doing what's right for him, and he's old enough to live with the consequences of his actions.

Modifié par Anastassia, 23 février 2010 - 11:14 .

[GodWood]

Sidonis deserved to die, plain and simple.

[TLK Spires]

true friends do what other friends won't. more than just saying what isn't right, they'll make sure it doesn't happen because it's for the best.

[Remaix]

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

[Zulu_DFA]

Icinix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Best result, warn sidonis, then let garrus take the shot. That moment, just, wow.

It's not a clean job. I bet at N7 training they don't teach you to warn your targets.

They also didn't tell me to play with my food, but I did that too.

You may die of hunger someday

My mother also said I might go blind....
wait. Thats too much information isn't it?

Not at all, keep it up. Something about calibrating devices, right?

[Zulu_DFA]

TLK Spires wrote...

true friends do what other friends won't. more than just saying what isn't right, they'll make sure it doesn't happen because it's for the best.

Yes, Mum.

[Zulu_DFA]

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Another body doesn't add much to the pile, but leaving that body out of the pile makes it ... incomplete.

[Remaix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Another body doesn't add much to the pile, but leaving that body out of the pile makes it ... incomplete.

...you just made me imagine a giant jigsaw puzzle composed of bodies now. Damn you! XD

[Zulu_DFA]

Remaix wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Another body doesn't add much to the pile, but leaving that body out of the pile makes it ... incomplete.

...you just made me imagine a giant jigsaw puzzle composed of bodies now. Damn you! XD

Welcome to the matrix of the real life.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

This.

I don't think Sidonis deserved to die just for being a coward. He made a mistake. It's not like he'd lived an entire lifetime of cowardice and intentionally got people killed on a daily basis (remember, he was part of Garrus' team originally), he's just a man that got in over his head and let his fear get the best of him. He obviously did care about those people, since he was wracked with guilt afterwards. He's not an admirable character, but hardly one that should any Paragon should kill. Not everyone can be Shepard (or Garrus). Not everyone has the guts and the selflessness to do what they do.

I think the best option for Garrus is to not let him take the shot, to remind him that he fights for justice, not revenge, and that following an 'eye for an eye' philosophy is the reason for most of the pointless bloodshed he's trying to stop. In the end, it really has to do with your character and your choices for Garrus. Renegade Garrus is a very different character from Paragon Garrus... I'll never be able to see him as full Renegade, but that's just me.

[ThePasserby]

I agree with one of the posters above on the relationship between Shepard and Garrus. You see, in your title, you asked How does a true friend help Garrus. But it seems to me that their relationship isn't one of just friendship, although friendship is a part of it.



Garrus sees Shepard as a mentor.



So, the question I asked myself in my playthroughs is: How does a mentor help Garrus?

[Llandaryn]

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Would that be the pile of dead mercenaries, biotics, humans, geth, krogan clones and collectors that Shepard left behind him throughout ME1/2?

[Remaix]

Llandaryn wrote...

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Would that be the pile of dead mercenaries, biotics, humans, geth, krogan clones and collectors that Shepard left behind him throughout ME1/2?

Different situations. Most of the times that's self defence and, even when it's not (like, say, renegade interrupts), it's usually people who would go and attack them.

[aznsoisauce]

Llandaryn wrote...

Remaix wrote...

I think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body to the pile, if you ask me.

Would that be the pile of dead mercenaries, biotics, humans, geth, krogan clones and collectors that Shepard left behind him throughout ME1/2?

No.

The pile of bodies of Garrus' and Sidonis' comrades in body bags decorating the Archangel base. That pile.

[Llandaryn]

Remaix wrote...

Llandaryn wrote...

Remaix wrote...

I
think a true friend wouldn't allow Garrus to do something he may very
well regret later. The last thing Garrus needed was to add another body
to the pile, if you ask me.

Would that be the pile of
dead mercenaries, biotics, humans, geth, krogan clones and collectors
that Shepard left behind him throughout ME1/2?

Different
situations. Most of the times that's self defence and, even when it's
not (like, say, renegade interrupts), it's usually people who would go and attack them.

Still,
if you want to keep Garrus from adding more bodies to the pile, you
should probably leave him behind on every mission. Or at least tell him
that if somebody manages to put a few dozen bullets in you, he is,
under no circumstances, allowed to kill the person who killed you out of revenge.
He's simply to take said individual into custody. Because you can't ask
him to kill for you if he's not allowed to kill for himself.

aznsoisauce wrote...

No.

The pile of bodies of Garrus' and Sidonis' comrades in body bags decorating the Archangel base. That pile.

So... the pile of bodies in Shepard's wake gets conveniently brushed aside?

It's alright saying "well they were people who were attacking Shepard in the first place" but maybe they also had reason to attack Shepard. Consider the biotic 'terrorists' in ME1, when you're sent to stop their activities. Maybe those biotic 'terrorists' were people like Jack, who had been tortured and persecuted by the society that created them. They were finally starting to fight back against the system that unjustly exposed them to eezo and attempted to harness their power for themselves, when you and Garrus when tromping through their base/ship and killed them all.

Point being, there is always a motive for something. If you delve deep into the history and psyche of even the hardest mercenary leader you'll find the heart of a child who was abused by his parents or picked on by the other kids or had to learn to fight back from an early age. His horse didn't have a nail in its shoe, so the war was lost. You accept that either a) there is ALWAYS a reason why criminals turn to crime, in which case you have no right to judge them, and no right to kill (and, in self defence, you should always try to disable) or you accept that as Mordin puts it, some people just need to be killed.

Now, I don't know if Sidonis needs to be killed. But I do know that the Council made me a Spectre, and even after I stopped Saren, died, and was brought back, I was allowed to keep my Spectre status. This tells me that the Council trusts my judgement somewhat. They've charged me keeping galactic peace, largely at my own discretion. To keep the peace, I need to destroy the Reapers. To do that, I need a good crew. I need my crew to be focused. I can help Garrus to be focused by helping him find Sidonis. I don't know if letting him kill Sidonis will help him. I don't know if convincing him to let Sidonis live will help him. But he's asking for my help, so I'll give it to him and hope for the best. It's easy to look back, in hindsight, but I roleplay my character without this benefit. I make decisions spur of the moment with as much info as possible, and deal with the repercussions later.

Plus he guilt-tripped me into helping him kill Sidonis.

Modifié par Llandaryn, 23 février 2010 - 09:57 .

[Ramikadyc]

Wow, I'm happy I asked this question. Incredible how diverse the reasoning for everyone's motives is. 6 pages and there's still about a 50-50 split, and both camps have good logic. Most likely I'll talk Garrus out of killing Sidonis, since that's what I was leaning to anyway--if I wasn't, I probably wouldn't have bothered to bring this up at all. Still, I'm wrestling with the decision.



Luckily, I've still got at least 2 years to figure out how to leave it, but I'll definitely have this bookmarked for reference material. Thanks for all the responses.

[Kreidian]

Agreed, a lot of interesting responses here. Ultimately it depends on what type of character your Shepard is. 

My Paragon Shepard is a war hero, the ultimate white knight in many ways. Not to the point of stupidity, when it comes down to it the people who try to kill him will usually and quickly die a painful death. But he's the sort of person that no matter what the situation, he always tries to go the extra mile to find the best solution. 
When he spoke with Garrus about Sidonis he was actually shocked and a bit disgusted that Garrus wanted to just kill him so easily. He understood the reason, mind you, he just didn't agree with it. It just seemed like petty vengeance to him, particularly since it was the merc bands that killed his old squad, and between the two of them they had pretty much wiped them out.

When it came down to it he simply could not let Garrus take the shot. No matter what else he had gone through Shepard believed that Garrus was a good man, and he couldn't let him do something he might regret one way. So Shepard didn't hesitate to put himself between Sidonis and Garrus's rifle. And when the time came he convinced Garrus to let him go, so that in the end he would feel better about himself.


My Renegade Shepard, on the other hand, saw things a little differently. First understand that she's not the Renegade-Stupid extremist that people might imagine her to be. Certainly she is a ruthless character when it comes down to it, but only when she has to be. For her what matters is doing the right thing in her mind, and to hell with everyone and everything else.
She is also extremely protective of her crew and her gang. Being earthborn she never had a family of her own, so when she builds an adoptive family in her crew, as artificial as it might seem by comparison, she will defend that family to death. As a result of this, ... well let's just say she doesn't deal with betrayal in a healthy manner.

As such it's no surprise that she did not hesitate to help out Garrus, on of the original squadmates and one of her few true friends in the galaxy. Likewise when she heard of Sidonis's betrayal she was just as eager to kill him as Garrus was. Indeed at one point Garrus thanks her for helping him out, to which she responds that she would have done the same thing, truer words were never spoken. In her mind it would have been the greater regret to have allowed Sidonis to live after what he had done. She doesn't really care why Sidonis betrayed Garrus. If he had done it out of greed then he deserved to die, but even if she knew that he had done it out of cowardice and was completely drained with guilt as a result she would have still killed him. The former is simply justice in her mind, the latter is simply a kindness to Sidonis, either way the betrayal is repaid appropriately. 

On a side note she didn't stop Garrus from shooting Harkin either, but that was more because she never forgave him for calling her a "princess". ( I'm guessing when she said she wouldn't have shot him in the leg she was reffering to an area between his legs. )

[SuperZombieChow]

MY "cannon" Shepard is a Paragon, almost through and through. I've tried to find the peaceful solution to every situation I've been in.



I still let Garrus take that shot. I didn't pretend I approved, I told him flat out that it was a bad idea in the scene before he kills Sidonis. But Garrus can make his own decisions. I wasn't there, it's not my place to tell him what to do. Garrus has always had my back, never questioning my decisions; a friend that true gets a free pass of trust from me.

[Kenshen]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I know one thing for certain. It's very unhealthy to stay on someone's line of fire longer then your mission parameters require you to.

This man does speak the truth.   You know during that whole part there are a few times when looking through the scope as Garrus I would have taken the shot even with Shep standing in front.  I know this because I have done it many times in fire fights.