59 réponses à ce sujet

[Arhka]

Tempest SMG has 14 dmg w/925 ROF, and Shuriken has 20.5 dmg w/700 ROF and a .25 refire rate. But, by pulsing the trigger, it seems that you can get the Shuriken to fire full auto, possibly bypassing the refire. So, aside from magazine capacity, which SMG has a superior DPS providing that you use the Shuriken as stated above and reload time/magazine capacity is ignored?

[SpezXVII]

Shuriken. It is also more controllable, enabling you to land more shots.

[Awesome Helmet]

all weapons are pretty comparable in each class. i like the variation they have. i like the tempest better becasue i like full auto. i can burst with the tempest if i needed to.

[implodinggoat]

Tempest by a wide margin

http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison

Modifié par implodinggoat, 22 février 2010 - 04:31 .

[Spyndel]

implodinggoat wrote...

Tempest by a wide margin

http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison

Off topic, but that chart blew my mind.  Crazy that the new DLC shottie is apparently superior to the Claymore.

[SpezXVII]

implodinggoat wrote...

Tempest by a wide margin

http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison

That is theoretical damage, assuming that every hit lands, at the same range, etc. Not to mention it doesn't mention that the burst quality of the Shuriken can be overidden if fired correctly. Although it has a slower fire-rate, I find I can land more headshots, at a longer range more reliably. Therefore doing more damage. Not to mention when paired with an ammo power it has a higher gain...

But that's just my opinion.


*Edit- Also, I don't think that chart is entirely accurate. There has been quite a few errors on the wiki lately. Perhaps a number cruncher could verify?

Modifié par SpezXVII, 22 février 2010 - 04:39 .

[implodinggoat]

It is true the DPS estimate does undervalue the more accurate weapons since it assumes a 100% hit rate for all weapons. Additionally it doesn't account for the +100% damage bonus that you get from a headshot. For example the list says the Revenant is much better than the Vindicator which is my favorite gun in the whole game; but I would side with the Vindicator entirely because of its accuracy.

[rumination888]

The chart is wrong based on my own testing. Refire delay only occurs if you hold the fire button down. If you press the fire button rapidly then the refire delay is equivelent to 60(seconds) divided by a weapon's RoF. Basically, RoF and refire delay are mutually exclusive.

With that said, the Tempest IS better, but not by such a wide margin as the wiki indicates. The Tempest shoots 5 per round compared to the Shuriken's 3. I think the Tempest will empty its entire clip in the same amount of time the Shuriken does if you rapidly press the fire button.

[IntrepidProdigy]

The Tempest is far too inaccurate at medium-long range. I'll stick with the Shuriken

[implodinggoat]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

The Tempest is far too inaccurate at medium-long range. I'll stick with the Shuriken

Yeah; but at that range why are you using an SMG at all?  If you're an infiltrator you should be using your Sniper Rifle and if you're an adept, vanguard, sentinel or engineer you'd be better off using your pistol.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 22 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[IntrepidProdigy]

implodinggoat wrote...

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

The Tempest is far too inaccurate at medium-long range. I'll stick with the Shuriken

Yeah; but at that range why are you using an SMG at all?  If you're an infiltrator you should be using your Sniper Rifle and if you're an adept, vanguard, or engineer you'd be better off using your pistol.

To me, the ammo count for the hand cannon is way to precious to use against common enemies and the heavy pistol lacks the "omph" of the hand cannon, so I prefer to use my smg more often. Especially as an adept since the smg is faster/better with stripping shields/barriers.

Edit: A little bit more on topic, I do prefer giving my smg squad-mates the tempest though since they aren't affected by recoil and are insanely accurate. I might even go so far to say that 2 smg squad-mates are some-what on par with inscisor wielding squad-mates

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 22 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[Mitch0821]

I prefer the Tempest by far.

[SuperVaderMan]

The tempest has more bursts per clip, 10 as opposed to the Shuriken's 8. It has a ton of ammo too. That's all the reasoning I need.

[Vb Dude]

I love the tempest, it sounds so cool and the increased ammo clip helps.

Really just what you prefer...

[_Dannok1234]

For close range fighting the Shuriken will deliver more damage in less time then the Tempest, assuming you get it to auto fire(PC only I'm told). It's pretty easy to test ingame. Just be point blank so that the bad accuracy becomes meaningless.

Shuriken 24(shots)*20.5=492 done in 2,056 seconds. at point blank thats 984 damage.
Tempest 32(shots)*14=448 done in 2,076 seconds. at point blank thats 896 damage.

So as long as you don't have to reload while killing your enemy the Shuriken will be slightly better, it's not by a lot, but it is noticeable.(Chances are you are going to have to reload before killing the next enemy no matter which one you use.)

Modifié par Dannok1234, 22 février 2010 - 06:57 .

[SmilingMirror]

Tempest for ammo clip

[Soruyao]

I love the shuriken. It's very satisfying to rapid fire it and destroy something's shields. It's also nice to be able to fire it slowly and accurately when needed.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Spyndel wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...

Tempest by a wide margin

http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison

Off topic, but that chart blew my mind.  Crazy that the new DLC shottie is apparently superior to the Claymore.

That's the way cheap DLC works. And it gets handed to you right into your hands the moment you boot up the game.

[Arhka]

implodinggoat wrote...

Tempest by a wide margin

http://masseffect.wi...onry_Comparison

Please note that I said ignoring refire rate. That chart assumes that you fire the Shuriken without pulsing to fire on full auto.

[RamsenC]

The shuriken has more dps, damage per bullet, and is more useful at range. The tempest has a huge clip and tons of ammo. Normally I'd go with shuriken, but I prefer the tempest's bigger clip for stripping mech and other boss shields. These enemies are also huge so most of you bullets will hit despite the poor accuracy.

I have no idea why that chart says the Evi does more dps than the Claymore. It seems they are basing the dps off of holding fire down and not tapping fire as fast as possible. Almost every gun shoots faster when you mash fire rather than hold it. Its probably why the viper is so badly represented on that chart.

Modifié par RamsenC, 22 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[DragoonKain3]

You guys forget about the reload time... a lower ammo count per clip would  hamper your EFFECTIVE dps because of your frequency to reload (1.5s delay).

And this is what hurts the Shuriken. You can only fire for about 2 seconds before running out of ammo to reload (assuming you're 'forcing' it to go full auto), compared to the Tempest where its about 3.25 seconds. So Shuriken effective DPS is 134 per firing cycle, compared to the Tempest's 148.

Same thing with Claymore. Fact that it only has 1 bullet per clip means that its the reload time thats killing you per firing cycle, and that hurts its effective DPS.


But if you're talking about BURST dps though (ie. dps WITHOUT reload times), its another story. Burst damage of Shuriken is at 239, while Tempest is only 216. 

Only problem with burst damage is that in higher difficulties, especially Insanity, you can NOT burst down your typical enemy minion from full shields to zero health with the minuscule clip of the Shuriken. You'd only do 492 damage before having to reload, which is FAR TOO SMALL for most enemies, forcing you to reload. (Tempest does 700 before you reload)

So for squadmates who don't do full auto on SMGs, go Tempest. For Shephard, do you prefer higher burst DPS/accuracy or higher effective DPS/clip size? For those classes who gets stuck with SMGs though, and you're using it at Insanity, the latter is generally better than the former, so my vote goes to Tempest.

Claymore though is another story. In ranges where you actually use the shotty, you WANT your burst damage through the roof, due to the damage bonus at close ranges (you want to take advantage of it while killing your opponents fast enough so that they don't do the same to you). 

And Claymore's burst dps is a staggering 428 , while Eviscerator is at 236. So for the Vanguard who likes to get up close and personal, and only has a short 'slo mo' time to set up a headshot, Claymore is the way to go. Just don't miss...

[_Dannok1234]

Dragoonkain3, it's actually only elites that you would have to reload to kill with the Shuriken, regular mooks go down in one clip on insanity. Talking about melee range here so you have the double damage bonus. Making the difference between the two pistols larger. You will have to reload both weapons in order to kill another regular none elite, so if you are using the smgs up close and personal, you will get a higher kill speed using the Shuriken as long as you are not using it on elites. Even on elites it's not a huge a difference, having to reload the Shuriken takes 1.5 seconds, a bit less using the "melee to interrupt reload at 60% of animation" trick, making it more or less equal. If you are firing from a distance, you will not be able to fire for any length of time continuously with either weapon due to the horrible accuracy. Not to mention that your enemies will often go to cover, giving you plenty of time to do any reloads you might require.



Would be good to know how the Claymore has a burst damage that is higher then the actual damage it does in a single shot, how do you figure that? You should also add that it's only worth using the Claymore if you can do the "reload trick" otherwise the other shotguns will kill multiple enemies quicker. In other words, you'll kill 1 enemy faster with the Claymore assuming no reload, but you'll kill 2-3 enemies or elites in a shorter time with Scimitar and Eviscerator unless you do the reload trick perfectly every time with the Claymore.

Also note that an enemy shot at point blank with a shotgun will not be shooting back at you regardless of it being dead or not thanks to the staggering effect from the impact. Making one shot kills less important then people might think.

[Riot Inducer]

people keep saying the Shuriken is better for them at range, I have to disagree, I ran a relatively "side by side" comparison with the two on Heastrom where you get the Tempest. The Shuriken has almost no increase in accuracy by zooming; a typical burst has a very wide spread, only the first shot is "dead on". The Tempest on the other hand gains a lot of accuracy when zooming, and while it degrades quickly it also restores itself quickly; you'll be able to hit a lot more reliably at range when firing in bursts from the Tempest than the Shuriken.

[UnstableMongoose]

Tempest is far better. If you pull the trigger once with the Tempest, it fires five shots in a MUCH tighter spread at range than the Shuriken can, AND it has full-auto capability for CQC. Also, larger clip, higher damage, and general usability trump the Shuriken magnificently.

[Nitram141]

Tempest in my opinion by far, as it does more damage.

The shuriken is more accurate at long range, but I've got a hand-cannon and sniper rifle for that job.