24 réponses à ce sujet

[b1n0ry]

I am just wondering a few things about my ex-squad mates. I found Tali to be more annoying in this game. And the way your ex-squad treats you just doesn't make sense.

Tali. I thought she was very annoying and narrow minded character in this game. I played as a renegade Shepard that was nice to all squad mates, Tali included... but I just didn't like how she treated me when I made various decisions. I mean knowing after all we've been through (saved and recruited her on the citadel, saved her and her species from total annihilation), Tali should at least trust me in the decisions I make. For example when I chose Legion over Tali in that altercation, and I talked to Tali after, she was like "Oh, shouldn't you be talking to your pet?" And I was like, "What, excuse me?" I believe she is too focused on matters not relevant to the main mission, which is to stop the Reapers, and she fails to see the importance of stopping the reapers. Not to mention, I strayed from my main mission to do her side quest.

The same can be said for all ex-party members. For example, Liara. Why didn't she join my party? Does she not see that her little business would not exist if the Reapers came through. Instead she is focused on taking down the Shadow Broker because apparently he has a much higher priority than the millions of Reapers who could turn her into genetic goo. 

I'm just trying to say that of all characters, my squadmates should understand the most. It seems like Shepard is the only one that CARES and some of his new squad mates unlike SHep's ex-squadmates who have seen and know what they Reapers are capable of.

Modifié par kRaYzi3, 22 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[Cutlass Jack]

I can't imagine why Tali would think ill of you for picking the Geth over her and betraying her people. The nerve of some folks!

[b1n0ry]

Yeah, it may sound off but look, he IS commander Shepard. Does she really think Shepard is capable of ****ing up... the dude is a Reaper killer. Show some respect or at least understand his decisions. The Quarian people, beef with the Geth... none of it really matters once the reapers pours through. Shepard understands this, but not his ex-team.

Sometimes I think it would've been better if BioWare gave us the option to let any party member leave at anytime should they disagree with anything, like in Dragon Age.

Modifié par kRaYzi3, 22 février 2010 - 04:17 .

[VSJagger]

I gotta disagree, before I explain let me start off by being totally up front. First Tali is one of my favorite characters Liara a close second, also I played the game almost full Paragon so I may not be clear on what the exact choices a renegade would make.

First off to Tali. Based on your examples her coldness to you for agreeing with Legion is because you essentially sided with the very being who oppressed her people. Sure there are 2 sides to the coin, but it's hard to see it when you are forced to live on junk ships, in environment suits you cannot leave. Legion wanted to warn his people of the Quarians possible intentions to attack them, a warning which could in turn provoke the Geth to attack the Quarians. You say they should all focus on the Reaoers, but it works both ways. Not finding that middle ground could remove one or both races from helping against the Reapers.

Then there is Liara. Let me start by asking, the Collectors work for the Reapers so wouldn't you agree that stopping them in turn hurts the Reapers? If you agree keep in mind that the game states that the Shadow Broker was working for the Collectors and tried to hand you over to them. No matter if this proves to be true or not it certainly lists the Shadow Broker as a potential Reaper allie (maybe unknowingly) Liara states that she is so passionate about hunting him because of what he was going to do to you and because he forced her hand in giving your body to Cerberus. In addition to helping a friend she was indebted to. She might not have gone on the suicide mission directly, but she was acting against the Reaper threat in some capacity.

If that's not enough to at least help you see the other side. One last thing don't forget that this is a crew of people who did KNOW about the Reapers and despite all that were clearly out hunting Geth months after the attack instead. It's hard to imagine the threat is real when it seems so far away.

(less wordy practical addendum to LI squad members: it's hard to make a love story carry over to Mass Effect 3 if they die on the suicide mission in 2, which Bioware has stated is the intent with Kaiden/Ashley/Liara so for that reason they don't get to go)

Modifié par VSJagger, 22 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[Kit-Kat-Kun]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

Yeah, it may sound off but look, he IS commander Shepard. Does she really think Shepard is capable of ****ing up... the dude is a Reaper killer. Show some respect or at least understand his decisions. The Quarian people, beef with the Geth... none of it really matters once the reapers pours through. Shepard understands this, but not his ex-team.

Sometimes I think it would've been better if BioWare gave us the option to let any party member leave at anytime should they disagree with anything, like in Dragon Age.

*Thinks about punching women a reporter and telling the council and TIM, the two most powerful forces in the galaxy to shove*

Nope, nothing wrong here. Shep is perfect.

[Cutlass Jack]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

Yeah, it may sound off but look, he IS commander Shepard. Does she really think Shepard is capable of ****ing up... the dude is a Reaper killer. Show some respect or at least understand his decisions. The Quarian people, beef with the Geth... none of it really matters once the reapers pours through. Shepard understands this, but not his ex-team.

Sometimes I think it would've been better if BioWare gave us the option to let any party member leave at anytime should they disagree with anything, like in Dragon Age.

So you really expected her to be nice to you after that? Really?
She didn't try to shoot you, and is still doing her job. What more could you expect? That she's not pleasant about you betraying her? C'mon. Be serious. Tali isn't the one being narrow minded.

Remember she was the one who stood by you even though you were allied with Cerberus, who are enemies of her people. She trusted you more than Ashley/Kaidan did, and you stabbed her in the back. But she's still doing her job. Give the girl some credit.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 22 février 2010 - 04:26 .

[b1n0ry]

That's it? She just stood by shep? Did she go after shep when he got spaced? She merrily left in her little escape pod. And who rebuilt shep? Do I really have a choice whether to side with Cerberus? Tali fails to see how important shep is and his goal/purpose. I also chose to listen to her by not revealing to the Quarian people her Father's true intent with the Geth. Then I chose Legion over Tali because I didn't have enough renegade/paragon points and she thinks I have betrayed her because of that? No matter what you choose, a war is still going to happen between them. Tali should NOT be focused on this because a war between the geth and quarian is inevitable. But like I said, none of it matters once the reapers pour through.

@VSJagger: That makes a lot of sense about Liara. I thought I paid attention to everyhing, I guess not...
I thought the crew were hunting Geth because they were planning attacks and abducting people, so it was necessary for shep to investigate. but it turned out to be the collectors.

Modifié par kRaYzi3, 22 février 2010 - 05:12 .

[royceclemens]

Dude, Tali and Legion are both trying to avert full scale war. Some things you just ain't gonna let slide. To bring it down to Earth, say, if you were my friend in real life and I found out you gave all my Rolling Stones CDs to my cheating ex-girlfriend, we wouldn't be friends anymore.



But at least that wouldn't potentially end in the genocide of a sentient race, which is the boat Tali and Legion find themselves in. So yeah, Tali was well within her right to tell Shepard what's what. Just be happy her and her useful combat drones stayed on the ship.

[Cutlass Jack]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

That's it? She just stood by shep? Did she go after shep when he got spaced? She merrily left in her little escape pod. And who rebuilt shep? Do I really have a choice whether to side with Cerberus? Tali fails to see how important shep is and his goal/purpose. I also chose to listen to her by not revealing to the Quarian people her Father's true intent with the Geth. Then I chose Legion over Tali because I didn't have enough renegade/paragon points and she thinks I have betrayed her because of that? No matter what you choose, a war is still going to happen between them. Tali should NOT be focused on this because a war between the geth and quarian is inevitable. But like I said, none of it matters once the reapers pour through.

War between the Quarians and Geth wasn't inevitable...until you let Legion pass information along. Obviously you couldn't make your Paragon option, but if you did, you'd have seen that you go a long way towards starting the healing process between their races.

And make no mistake you did betray her after she trusted you. Believe it or not Tali can't see your paragon/renegade score. You made your choice, and chose Legion, not her. After she backed you completely for two games. Who cares if the reapers come if the Geth wipe out her people first?

Personally I have no problem that you made the choice you did. But its hysterical to me that you think she's a bad person for not being happy you screwed her over.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 22 février 2010 - 05:28 .

[VSJagger]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

That's it? She just stood by shep? Did she go after shep when he got spaced? She merrily left in her little escape pod. And who rebuilt shep? Do I really have a choice whether to side with Cerberus? Tali fails to see how important shep is and his goal/purpose. I also chose to listen to her by not revealing to the Quarian people her Father's true intent with the Geth. Then I chose Legion over Tali because I didn't have enough renegade/paragon points and she thinks I have betrayed her because of that? No matter what you choose, a war is still going to happen between them. Tali should NOT be focused on this because a war between the geth and quarian is inevitable. But like I said, none of it matters once the reapers pour through.

@VSJagger: That makes a lot of sense about Liara. I thought I paid attention to everyhing, I guess not...
I thought the crew were hunting Geth because they were planning attacks and abducting people, so it was necessary for shep to investigate. but it turned out to be the collectors.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but is there any evidence Tali was still serving on the Normandy during the Collector attack? The game makes it clear Wrex wasn't, Liara, Kaiden/Ashley were, but the game kinda stays ambiguous with Tali and Garrus (unless I am missing something). There is dialog that suggests Tali went and finished her Pilgrimage and Garrus returned to C-Sec for a while and then became Archangel. However it's not totally clear on when they did this Anyway not the point if she wasn't on the ship can't blame her for not going after your body an more than the rest of the crew (besides Liara who did go after it).

What you would see though if you had enough Paragon points (not sure on Renegade) is that Legion and Tali can work together and more importantly neither take actions to further enhance a war between the two races. I do think you are correct a war is brewing, however I feel on my game based on the choices I made everyone, except Admiral Xen was on-board with putting off the war until the Reapers were dealt with.

However you can't blame them not being too worried about the Reapers. Outside Tali I doubt any of them really think they exist at this point. Tali seems to be respected, but not so much that she wasn't almost exiled for treason. As such her coming and saying "hey all life is gonna be wiped out by other robots that the Geth are working for" Can you really blame the Admiralty board for only hearing another excuse to fight Geth? If you assume that they do believe in Reapers though you can also assume they are helping. By fighting the Geth they are fighting the Reapers in a way, because keep in mind they don't know about the Heretics yet.

The human colonies hadn't vanished yet. The original Normandy was investigating missing ships that the council had suspected might be tied to the Geth. Because it was near the Terminus system they sent the Normandy. However make no mistake the game refers to the "Geth War" the council was only focused on that. They appeased Shepard because of everything she had done for them, but backslid on the issue as soon as she died.

[SF117]

VSJagger wrote...

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but is there any evidence Tali was still serving on the Normandy during the Collector attack? The game makes it clear Wrex wasn't, Liara, Kaiden/Ashley were, but the game kinda stays ambiguous with Tali and Garrus (unless I am missing something). There is dialog that suggests Tali went and finished her Pilgrimage and Garrus returned to C-Sec for a while and then became Archangel. However it's not totally clear on when they did this Anyway not the point if she wasn't on the ship can't blame her for not going after your body an more than the rest of the crew (besides Liara who did go after it).

I think Tali was on the Normandy.  When you ask Jacob about your crew when you meet him at the beginning of the game he mentions that "the quarian" made it out after he mentions Liara.

Modifié par SF117, 22 février 2010 - 05:36 .

[Cutlass Jack]

SF117 wrote...

I think Tali was on the Normandy.  When you ask Jacob about your crew when you meet him at the beginning of the game he mentions that "the quarian" made it out after he mentions Liara.

If we're to go by Jacob, then yes she was there. But she was down on the lower engineering deck and the elevator was blocked off. She had no way to get upstairs to find Shepard. In all likelihood she helped the Engineering crew get out safely. Which is likely why Adams didn't meet the same fate as Pressly.

[b1n0ry]

royceclemens wrote...

Dude, Tali and Legion are both trying to avert full scale war. Some things you just ain't gonna let slide. To bring it down to Earth, say, if you were my friend in real life and I found out you gave all my Rolling Stones CDs to my cheating ex-girlfriend, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

But at least that wouldn't potentially end in the genocide of a sentient race, which is the boat Tali and Legion find themselves in. So yeah, Tali was well within her right to tell Shepard what's what. Just be happy her and her useful combat drones stayed on the ship.

Say you were my friend in real life and you knew me as the person who could overcome any problems. I'm a brilliant scientist and you, a struggling one. And say there was a large asteroid headed for Earth. You and I are only aware of the asteroid. You knew I had the smarts to deflect the asteroid and you also knew that I gave all your life long work as a scientist to your ex-girlfriend. Would you dare to estrange me in this instance?

[tsd16]

God forbid, the characters have their own opinions and aren't just mindless drones that agree with everything you say.



So just because someone does something for you, they have to think like you and become your personal slave?



Shepard Makes mistakes afterall, be they paragon or renegade choices. Some things from ME2 we wont know if they were the right choice until ME3.



Take Samara's recruitment mission, when you find the Eclipse merc who feeds you a sob story, and ultimately you can kill her or let her go. You then find out she really was a heartless murdering she-****, and you could have killed her. So if you went paragon you made a mistake.



So people have a right to question Sheps perception of things. While overall he seems to get the job done, he is hardly some infallible God that makes no mistakes.



I mean come on squadmates can die at the end of the game, they wouldnt allow you to do that if shepard was meant to never screw up.

[tsd16]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Dude, Tali and Legion are both trying to avert full scale war. Some things you just ain't gonna let slide. To bring it down to Earth, say, if you were my friend in real life and I found out you gave all my Rolling Stones CDs to my cheating ex-girlfriend, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

But at least that wouldn't potentially end in the genocide of a sentient race, which is the boat Tali and Legion find themselves in. So yeah, Tali was well within her right to tell Shepard what's what. Just be happy her and her useful combat drones stayed on the ship.

Say you were my friend in real life and you knew me as the person who could overcome any problems. I'm a brilliant scientist and you, a struggling one. And say there was a large asteroid headed for Earth. You and I are only aware of the asteroid. You knew I had the smarts to deflect the asteroid and you also knew that I gave all your life long work as a scientist to your ex-girlfriend. Would you dare to estrange me in this instance?

Why not, you gonna let the asteroid hit and kill yourself as well, because your friend is pissed off about what you did?

You can twist this a number of ways.   Guy that is capable of saving the plaent was banging your wife behind your back, gave a nuke to some terrorist that wants to blow up your planet, stole your cheese sandwich.

Just because someone has done some great good in some situations, can still make mistakes, and can still be disagreed with no matter what prior actions merited them.

You can use countries as examples, is Germany just full of murderous facists because of the countries past actions and never be trusted?  Should the United States never be questioned because they rode in on a white horse in a couple of world wars?

[Sharn01]

She is still doing her job, she is just not being friendly any longer. You can not be upset about the choice that you made, had you sided with Tali you would be mad at Legion instead because he would do the same thing.



You probably hate Ashley/Kaiden as well, whoever was alive for you, but in all honestly they had every right to be upset, you joined a terrorist organization that is responsible for more death's then the collector's they supposedly brought you back to fight.



Liara is the one who saved your corpse, she gave it over to Cerberus because they promised they could bring you back.



Your Shepard, your not a god, you can not make every problem magically go away with your gun's, no matter how much ME2 tried to paint you as a super hero.

[b1n0ry]

Nobody is doing anything for me and should never do anything for me, after all, I am doing a lot for my mates and the galaxy. You expect me to believe my mates disagree with me or disrespect me knowing what we've gone through. You expect me to have one character disrespect me with just one decision? Doesn't make sense. That character should be given the option to leave. That's all I'm saying.

Modifié par kRaYzi3, 22 février 2010 - 06:58 .

[b1n0ry]

Sharn01 wrote...

She is still doing her job, she is just not being friendly any longer. You can not be upset about the choice that you made, had you sided with Tali you would be mad at Legion instead because he would do the same thing.

You probably hate Ashley/Kaiden as well, whoever was alive for you, but in all honestly they had every right to be upset, you joined a terrorist organization that is responsible for more death's then the collector's they supposedly brought you back to fight.

Liara is the one who saved your corpse, she gave it over to Cerberus because they promised they could bring you back.

Your Shepard, your not a god, you can not make every problem magically go away with your gun's, no matter how much ME2 tried to paint you as a super hero.

Yeah lol... it bugged me a little when Ash/Kaiden left me hanging like that...

I guess your last comment explains much...

[Cutlass Jack]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

Nobody is doing anything for me and should never do anything for me, after all, I am doing a lot for my mates and the galaxy. You expect me to believe my mates disagree with me or disrespect me knowing what we've gone through. You expect me to have one character disrespect me with just one decision? Doesn't make sense. That character should be given the option to leave. That's all I'm saying.

Doesn't make sense? That 'one decision' was to get her race wiped out. You make it sound like you decided not to get Waffles on the way to the Omega relay. 

[b1n0ry]

Does it matter if your race gets wiped since the Reapers already have that planned. The Quarians were preparing a war against the Geth. Who's to say they wont get wiped out there or receive mass causalities?



Personally, I felt that playing as a renegade but super nice to squad mates is not satisfying.

[Cutlass Jack]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

Personally, I felt that playing as a renegade but super nice to squad mates is not satisfying.

Then what are you complaining about? Why would they be nice to you when you're not? If you want to be a renegade don't cry that people don't like you. Kinda comes with the territory.

Want to inspire loyalty? Be a Paragon.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 22 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[Gar_Logan]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

Does it matter if your race gets wiped since the Reapers already have that planned.

Oh yeah. Getting the whole race killed because of your friend is exactly the same as them being destroyed by big bad guys.

Modifié par Gar_Logan, 22 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[Chuvvy]

Have enough paragon to resolve the situation peacefully,take legion's side.
Tali dies.
Nothing of value was lost.

Modifié par Slidell505, 22 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Frotality]

well tali thinks shep is the bee's knees, only those she thinks are the banana's pajamas can convince her that siding with the geth she's been brainwashed to hate is a good idea.

however much she respects shepard, she not gonna trust him over the midset of her entire people.

[Hodster]

kRaYzi3 wrote...

royceclemens wrote...

Dude, Tali and Legion are both trying to avert full scale war. Some things you just ain't gonna let slide. To bring it down to Earth, say, if you were my friend in real life and I found out you gave all my Rolling Stones CDs to my cheating ex-girlfriend, we wouldn't be friends anymore.

But at least that wouldn't potentially end in the genocide of a sentient race, which is the boat Tali and Legion find themselves in. So yeah, Tali was well within her right to tell Shepard what's what. Just be happy her and her useful combat drones stayed on the ship.

Say you were my friend in real life and you knew me as the person who could overcome any problems. I'm a brilliant scientist and you, a struggling one. And say there was a large asteroid headed for Earth. You and I are only aware of the asteroid. You knew I had the smarts to deflect the asteroid and you also knew that I gave all your life long work as a scientist to your ex-girlfriend. Would you dare to estrange me in this instance?

I would be pissed at you and tell you off.  I would not be your friend anylonger but I would still work with you to stop the asteroid because it's to important.   This is the same thing you betrayed Tali so she got pissed, told you off and is no longer your friend but she is still going on the mission because it is very important.