89 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

Hey, everybody do what real men and women do all the time in real life: Leave things in the air.



For instance, with Tali:



Tali: Yes, sex with you could kill me.

Shepard: ("You've given me a lot to think about" on the option wheel.)



Then never talk to Tali again. You're only trapped if you pursue the matter to resolution.



That's exactly what I did with Jack. When she said "Why do you keep coming around here. I can't figure you out." I left her alone after that. It was clearly going to be a binary choice between aloofness or sex.



With Tali, you can respectfully say you don't want to endanger her health, or even kill her. You can "just be friends."



These situations are not uncommon in real life — especially in closed quarters on a ship, I imagine.

[yummysoap]

Jack would have been so much better off if fixing her screwed up life did not require banging her. When she was like "You got feelings for me?" I searched for the option to say "Not in that way, but I want to offer a sincere friendship - something it seems you have never experienced before. Let's hug."



Instead he said "I'm not interested." and Jack didn't seem to get the hint and insisted I break up with Miranda if I want to keep talking to her. How sad.

[cipher_Cero]

Thompson family wrote...

Hey, everybody do what real men and women do all the time in real life: Leave things in the air.

For instance, with Tali:

Tali: Yes, sex with you could kill me.
Shepard: ("You've given me a lot to think about" on the option wheel.)

Then never talk to Tali again. You're only trapped if you pursue the matter to resolution.

That's exactly what I did with Jack. When she said "Why do you keep coming around here. I can't figure you out." I left her alone after that. It was clearly going to be a binary choice between aloofness or sex.

With Tali, you can respectfully say you don't want to endanger her health, or even kill her. You can "just be friends."

These situations are not uncommon in real life — especially in closed quarters on a ship, I imagine.

The issue isn't the avoidance of the romance subplot. That's easy enough, especially if you don't care about your dialogue options.

The issue is that if you so much as deny them after it starts, they have no interest in ever talking to you, or accuse you of being a player, or what-not. The only way to "get to know" a character in the game that's in the pool of possible love interests is to engage them romantically. Otherwise they want nothing to do with you. Ever.

Which isn't how things get done in real life, since you want to bring that into question. Not everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them--otherwise, we'd have no virgins.
You're not in closed quarters, either, cramped up with no contact with the outside world. You're on a pretty big ship with a sizeable crew and you get frequent shore leave, yet your ranking officers can't seem to keep their hands off of you.

[Nastrod]

scxenophobe wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Romance subplots should only be pursuable through "Charm" or "Intimidate" dialogue.

Intimidate? "Love me or I'll kill you?" very romantic.

Modifié par Nastrod, 22 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[Thompson family]

Which isn't how things get done in real life, since you want to bring that into question. Not everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them--otherwise, we'd have no virgins.

Thane didn't want to ride me because I was nice to him. Dr. Chakwas didn't want to ride me because I was nice to her. Liara didn't want to ride me and I was very nice to her and wanted her to ride me again. I did everything I could to romance Samara (I guess I have a thing for Asari) and she told me she was mildly flattered but not interested.

I never said "everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them." What I said was that people want relationships to go farther than you want all the time, and avoiding them without giving a flat "no" is a viable option.

Modifié par Thompson family, 22 février 2010 - 05:12 .

[Aradace]

scxenophobe wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Romance subplots should only be pursuable through "Charm" or "Intimidate" dialogue.

Intimidate? "Love me or I'll kill you?" very romantic.

Dont know why but my mind went to the part in Bruce Almighty where he's standing on ther park bench going "Love me!!!" trying to do the whole Jedi mind trick thing lol

[yoomazir]

When I saw the topic title I was like: "you mean...rape?"

[Lord_Moose]

I found that Jack was a very nice girl, who my Shepard related a lot with, Earthborn with a very tough time growing up, coupled with Sole Survivor added a lot of emotional baggage with Cerberus hookups.

As touching as the final moment with Jack is, i didnt want that with us. I'm more then happy to have her as a friend and ally, afterall that Turian space station story, Hilarious.



Samara seems to be the only 'Love' interest you can really be Just Friends with. Which is a completyely acceptable thing, even though she is an incredible looking woman with a great personality, the fact that its not leading you right to sex everytime makes her one of my favorites.

[cipher_Cero]

Thompson family wrote...

Which isn't how things get done in real life, since you want to bring that into question. Not everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them--otherwise, we'd have no virgins.

Thane didn't want to ride me because I was nice to him. Dr. Chakwas didn't want to ride me because I was nice to her. Liara didn't want to ride me and I was very nice to her and wanted her to ride me again. I did everything I could to romance Samara (I guess I have a thing for Asari) and she told me she was mildly flattered but not interested.

I never said "everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them." What I said was that people want relationships to go farther than you want all the time, and avoiding them without giving a flat "no" is a viable option.

None of those are in the pool of love interests for male Shepard in-game. Thane -does- very much express a romantic interest in female Shepard; instead of expressing a friendly, personal concern for the character, your Paragon choices head straight to romance.

The point I made was that avoidance isn't the issue. In "real life," since you continue to bring it into question, doesn't require romantic interests in either party to build rapport or provide encouragement, which the game doesn't seem to acknowledge.

You either act like you hate them, act like you're indifferent to their plight, or are heading to the bedroom--there's nothing given inbetween where you can simply be platonic and yet maintain a closeness without having to avoid them altogether. In a game that even has a "relationship" or "conversation" mechanic, it doesn't make sense that you'd be prevented from getting to know a character unless you indicate romantic interest.

Modifié par cipher_Cero, 22 février 2010 - 05:21 .

[Satanic Hamster]

Strongly agree with the OP.  Was very surprised/annoyed to find I was romancing Jack; I was just trying to be nice / help her.

[Thompson family]

In a game that even has a "relationship" or "conversation" mechanic, it doesn't make sense that you'd be prevented from getting to know a character unless you indicate romantic interest.

That's valid. And, in fact, I was looking for exactly that option with Jack. Now there's somebody who could use a friend.

However, I had to close the door because my Shepard is faithful to Liara. I do have strong feelings for Tali but would never endanger her health, especially since Tali will lose if Liara comes back to me in ME3.

As a MaleShep, I look at it this way:

Miranda is not someone who takes rejection well. I know a lot of men like her. Being the lover of the "best humanity has to offer" would validate her, pitiful as that is. She doesn't need outside validation. Shepard tried to tell her that. It didn't work, unfortunately.

Jack is a classic victim of abuse. She's a hardcase. If you don't tell her you want sex from her, it confuses her and she becomes obsessed with what angles you're playing. She's not looking for friendship. She want's love. She wants more than my Shepard is willing to offer.

Tali is young woman but the best adjusted of the three. She's clearly heartbroken when you tell her you'd never endanger her health, but she remains your loyal friend.

So there's only two characters that I can't get close to unless I romance them. Perhaps its more frustrating for FemShep players. I wouldn't know. I've never even created a new character for ME2. I've always used the same MaleShep from ME1, one I created from scratch in one ME1 playthrough in January, specifically to be imported into ME2.

Modifié par Thompson family, 22 février 2010 - 05:35 .

[bobsmyuncle]

Shazzie wrote...

I know!!

I was SO irritated by the fact that it seemed my character was throwing herself at Jacob from word one on the Normandy (ugh) and yet I couldn't continue getting to know Jack because I ran into the 'I don't have any more conversation options for you unless you're gonna sleep with me' wall.

Ugh.

Yeah, convos with Jacob really bother me. In games where I just want to be friends, she's doing the ";):wub:" voice from the start, and the one game where I tried to start the romance I felt disgusted with my Shep and reloaded after the first romance dialogue (it really seemed to me like he wasn't interested and Shepard forced it). Maybe I pay too much attention to power dynamics in relationships, but it really made me uncomfortable.

And yeah, it bugged me that there's not much dialogue with any of the LIs if you choose not to bang them. Not that the romantic dialogue is much better with Thane "I don't take responsibility for my actions" Krios and Garrus "Ew you're all squishy and human I don't even..." Vakarian.

I wanted to be anti-Cerberus biotic pals with Jack, maybe get a cool tattoo and beat up some mofos, but she just assumes I'm gay for her and blows me off. I do want to mention that the dialogue with Tali was good for me from a friendship perspective. I felt all big-sister and wanted to hug her <3

Modifié par bobsmyuncle, 22 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[Thompson family]

I do want to mention that the dialogue with Tali was good for me from a friendship perspective. I felt all big-sister and wanted to hug her /images/forum/emoticons/heart.png

Exactly. I talked to Tali along those lines solely because she was so smitten that I felt obligated to let her know. I love Tali — broke out in sobs when she got killed in my first playthrough — but being intimate with her would just be wrong.

[Jeremy Winston]

BioWare watched "When Harry Met Sally" too many times.

[Thompson family]

Jeremy Winston wrote...

BioWare watched "When Harry Met Sally" too many times.

[Habelo]

scxenophobe wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Romance subplots should only be pursuable through "Charm" or "Intimidate" dialogue.

Intimidate? "Love me or I'll kill you?" very romantic.

Not  the best player are you? noted

OP: i agree, you should like have to play your cards right to get romance, not just be kind to le ****.

[mopotter]

JMKnave wrote...

What happened was people complained that so and so wasn't romanceable in ME1 or DA:O or etc. etc. So they added more LIs in ME2.

And now people complain that so and so shouldn't be romanceable and that they just wanna be friends. You can't please everyone.

I don't think that's it.  The option to romance them should be there, but there should be a way to say, hey, we are friends, I want to know about you.  If I'm interested in a  romance with Jack, there should be a way to learn about Miranda without hitting the romance button. 

And you can still talk with squadmates and stick to the neutral options to stop from getting caught in a romance. The trouble is that they don't have much convo aside from the romance ones so they just don't talk to you at all.

This is the problem.  If you don't romance them you they don't talk to you.  It would be very nice if there were another option, or if the middle/neutral option would let you be nice to them and acknowledge the possibility of a friendship.

[mopotter]

Pannamaslo wrote...

What bugged was the fact that you can't be friends with Jack as a female. I liked Morrigan's frienship route in DA, where she acknowledges friendship bond. Jack is like - I am not into girls. GTFO. Also case with Garrus - if you are male he has like 3 conversations...

Agree.  I liked Morrigan's friendship too and would like to see that in ME3 since it's too late for ME2.

[Yeled]

cutthecameras wrote...

 Plus what she said about the 'girl's club' reminded me of that popular misguided notion that all gay people would do it with a person of their own sex at the drop of a hat, regardless of personal taste.

I'm pretty sure her "girl's club" comment had nothing to do with whether or not she was into girls.  She was saying she didn't want to be chatty with femshep.  "Girl's club," to Jack, is about being gossipy, shopping, and giggling together.  Its not about sex.

[JamieCOTC]

Now I feel bad for my femShep. The only one who wanted her was Thane and mainly because she reminded him of his dead wife. Did she forget to shower that day? What?

All in all, I think BW did a much better job in this department that in ME1. I hope there will be continuing improvements in ME3. Still, it's not Dragon Age and it was never meant to be.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 22 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[Nozybidaj]

mopotter wrote...

And you can still talk with squadmates and stick to the neutral options to stop from getting caught in a romance. The trouble is that they don't have much convo aside from the romance ones so they just don't talk to you at all.

This is the problem.  If you don't romance them you they don't talk to you.  It would be very nice if there were another option, or if the middle/neutral option would let you be nice to them and acknowledge the possibility of a friendship.

I think maybe it is intentional on BW's part. This isn't supposed to be a big cheery group of friends sharing stories and bonding with each other.  This is a group of criminals, vigilantes, and terrorists that you recruited to get a specific job done expecting some, and most if not all of them to die at the end.  If you want to indulge in some "one on one" time so be it, otherwise stick to the business at hand.

Its not like ME1 where the crew felt more like a single unit, these are specialists who go out and do their thing.  Not having the option to get friendly with them outside of some smexy time seems to fit right in to me.  Even the romances themselves don't have that same emotional feel to them.  Its all about smexy time in the engine room.

[Jzadek72]

They should have an extra dialog option colour for romantic dialog choices.

[FataliTensei]

I agree with OP

[Jarcander]

Since everything is about simplifying interface nowadays, why not just make a pink discussion option for pursuing a romance?