89 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghostano]

Jarcander wrote...

Since everything is about simplifying interface nowadays, why not just make a pink discussion option for pursuing a romance?

Nah easiest way is to have option - XXX (with bad 70s porn music playing when sleceted). Would be the simplest and stright forward option

[Valilith]

I read here and there that if you avoid romance, then the LI won't talk to you anymore (or nothing interesting). But what if you have a romance ? Does the LI really talk to you much more ? Or just go to bed with you and if you both survive, you can just ... what ... go in you room ? (I didn't finish the game, and don't want to romance anyone, but I'm not sure that romancing an LI will add tons of dialogs, no ?)

[Yeled]

Usually it adds a few more dialogue scenes, but considering each character has, what, four dialogue scenes, a couple more makes a big difference.

[Valilith]

Thanks! So I know now why we can't romance Mordin Soluce, as he has four dialogue scenes already ^^

Modifié par Valilith, 22 février 2010 - 11:13 .

[Deztyn]

cipher_Cero wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Which isn't how things get done in real life, since you want to bring that into question. Not everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them--otherwise, we'd have no virgins.

Thane didn't want to ride me because I was nice to him. Dr. Chakwas didn't want to ride me because I was nice to her. Liara didn't want to ride me and I was very nice to her and wanted her to ride me again. I did everything I could to romance Samara (I guess I have a thing for Asari) and she told me she was mildly flattered but not interested.

I never said "everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them." What I said was that people want relationships to go farther than you want all the time, and avoiding them without giving a flat "no" is a viable option.

None of those are in the pool of love interests for male Shepard in-game. Thane -does- very much express a romantic interest in female Shepard; instead of expressing a friendly, personal concern for the character, your Paragon choices head straight to romance.

The problem I see with the bolded portion is that you seem to equate showing a "friendly, personal concern" with dialogue options in the upper right of the dialogue wheel. The middle right options DO show a genuine concern for Thane's emotional wellbeing. You CAN suggest he get to know other people on the ship. You CAN show approval and support for his continuing relationship with his son. You CAN say very nice things, that show you care on a personal level.

Your problem seems to be with the position of those options on the dialogue wheel rather than the actual content. "If they aren't in the upper right, it must mean I'm not being nice or caring enough!" An attitude I find somewhat perplexing.

Modifié par Deztyn, 22 février 2010 - 11:54 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

PopDisaster wrote...

I like the idea of it being separated that way, but I don't think it should be tied to your renegade/paragon bar. I mean, I play almost exclusively paragon, but what if I wanted to do something really forward/flirty/aggressive with my LI? Both options should be available for everyone.

Green for "paragon" romance actions/dialogue?
Purple for "renegade" romance actions/dialogue?

[cipher_Cero]

Deztyn wrote...

cipher_Cero wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Which isn't how things get done in real life, since you want to bring that into question. Not everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them--otherwise, we'd have no virgins.

Thane didn't want to ride me because I was nice to him. Dr. Chakwas didn't want to ride me because I was nice to her. Liara didn't want to ride me and I was very nice to her and wanted her to ride me again. I did everything I could to romance Samara (I guess I have a thing for Asari) and she told me she was mildly flattered but not interested.

I never said "everybody wants to ride you because you're nice to them." What I said was that people want relationships to go farther than you want all the time, and avoiding them without giving a flat "no" is a viable option.

None of those are in the pool of love interests for male Shepard in-game. Thane -does- very much express a romantic interest in female Shepard; instead of expressing a friendly, personal concern for the character, your Paragon choices head straight to romance.

The problem I see with the bolded portion is that you seem to equate showing a "friendly, personal concern" with dialogue options in the upper right of the dialogue wheel. The middle right options DO show a genuine concern for Thane's emotional wellbeing. You CAN suggest he get to know other people on the ship. You CAN show approval and support for his continuing relationship with his son. You CAN say very nice things, that show you care on a personal level.

Your problem seems to be with the position of those options on the dialogue wheel rather than the actual content. "If they aren't in the upper right, it must mean I'm not being nice or caring enough!" An attitude I find somewhat perplexing.

I'm not that simple-minded. It's not an issue of "WELL IM BEING A JERK WHEN I PICK THE MIDDLE THING."

It's how the game treats relationship building versus pursuing a romance. Pursuing a romance involves some intent on your part, which is just absent in a lot of the conversation options. I've played through the game a few times already and I've noted that "top" dialogue options (Jack, Jacob, and Garrus excluded as you outright make some physical comments) don't indicate romantic interest, except the NPC interprets it that way.

I had to avoid that with Thane already. There's a difference between "I think you're a pretty good guy and you spend way too much time by yourself" and "Good stuff; I hope that works out for you, brah." In any normal conversation, the former option isn't an indication of romantic interest. The game seems to think it is.
There's absolutely no reason for Thane to think that because there's not been an intent in pursuing that kind of a relationship nor has there been any particularly intimate moment between you to suggest that. He just suddenly calls you "siha." Why? He's had no reason to be attracted to you prior to that. At all. You just talk a lot.

Intent. That's the word. In Dragon Age: Origins there was a differentiation between gaining a character's close friendship versus going to bed with them later. I'm not looking for an approval gauge. I'm just looking for separate dialogue options where the intent of a romantic relationship is made clear, as opposed to being confined to assuming that the "best, most encouraging" thing to say has to lead to the bedroom.

Which, of course, disallows any real freedom on the player's part when they have to go, "Well, not gonna pick that one because everyone knows what that means," forcing the player to instead say something they might not necessarily say in favor of the game not assuming anything on their part. Which, in Mass Effect 2, often means that there are several deeper dialogue options unavailable to you later on because, you know, without sex afterwards it's not like it's going anywhere.

[Akinra]

Ghostano wrote...

Jarcander wrote...

Since everything is about simplifying interface nowadays, why not just make a pink discussion option for pursuing a romance?

Nah easiest way is to have option - XXX (with bad 70s porn music playing when sleceted). Would be the simplest and stright forward option

I like that idea, but rather than the bad 70s porn music have some Barry White playing.

[Mossa_missa]

I found it easy to be friends with the males as my femshep, yust dont choise the "only friends? and flexibel" one.

[Deztyn]

cipher_Cero wrote...

I'm not that simple-minded. It's not an issue of "WELL IM BEING A JERK WHEN I PICK THE MIDDLE THING."

It's how the game treats relationship building versus pursuing a romance. Pursuing a romance involves some intent on your part, which is just absent in a lot of the conversation options. I've played through the game a few times already and I've noted that "top" dialogue options (Jack, Jacob, and Garrus excluded as you outright make some physical comments) don't indicate romantic interest, except the NPC interprets it that way.

I object to the idea that the characters can't have deeper or romantic feelings for the PC without the players input. Good characters should have their own opinions and feelings without a player having to mold them that way. Now to be fair, I've never played Manshep, but if his dialogue with Miranda is similar to Femsheps, I can't blame the woman for feeling there might be something there. But again, I haven't played a male yet so I won't comment.

I will say that I haven't had any issues with the way the game treats the Femshep LIs. Certainly nothing like the first games stealth romances.

I had to avoid that with Thane already. There's a difference between "I think you're a pretty good guy and you spend way too much time by yourself" and "Good stuff; I hope that works out for you, brah." In any normal conversation, the former option isn't an indication of romantic interest. The game seems to think it is.
There's absolutely no reason for Thane to think that because there's not been an intent in pursuing that kind of a relationship nor has there been any particularly intimate moment between you to suggest that. He just suddenly calls you "siha." Why? He's had no reason to be attracted to you prior to that. At all. You just talk a lot.

Um . . .No.

If you don't choose the "I want you, Thane." dialogue choice there is no romance. No picture flipped, you're perfectly free to ease stress with Garrus. And you actually can't change your mind and attempt to pursue a relationship in your next conversation. If you don't choose "I want you, Thane." there is no romance, period. You don't get any rejection lines later on, there is nothing there to reject. You can choose every other Paragon position dialogue trigger but you have to choose that particular one in order to have a romance. And even if you pick all middle right options when talking to Thane he will still call you Siha.

Why? Well because that's just how Thane sees Femshep, with or without  a romance.

Intent. That's the word. In Dragon Age: Origins there was a differentiation between gaining a character's close friendship versus going to bed with them later. I'm not looking for an approval gauge. I'm just looking for separate dialogue options where the intent of a romantic relationship is made clear, as opposed to being confined to assuming that the "best, most encouraging" thing to say has to lead to the bedroom.

Which, of course, disallows any real freedom on the player's part when they have to go, "Well, not gonna pick that one because everyone knows what that means," forcing the player to instead say something they might not necessarily say in favor of the game not assuming anything on their part. Which, in Mass Effect 2, often means that there are several deeper dialogue options unavailable to you later on because, you know, without sex afterwards it's not like it's going anywhere.

"I want you, Thane" shows a great deal of Intent. 

[Tootles FTW]

Don't know if this was mentioned (too many posts to read) but for the Garrus & Thane romances at least you had to choose a very specific dialogue option ("I can help you relieve your tension"/"I want you, Thane", respectively) to initiate the romance. If you don't select this when it appears it doesn't seem like you get a second chance to start-up the LI.

Can't say if it's the same for the maleShep LI's or for Jacob (though FemShep always sounds like she wants to jump his bones from the moment she opens her mouth).

Edit: Aaaand, of course, the very post above mine states it much better than I did. 

Modifié par Tootles FTW, 24 février 2010 - 04:33 .

[Dracotamer]

Yeah, it would be nice if we could just be friends.

[Wild Still]

scxenophobe wrote...

"Love me or I'll kill you?"

Ah that takes me back....

[Valilith]

Right ... I didn't initiate the romance with Garus (on purpose) ... and yes, it's quite frustrating that now, there is no more dialog option, it's over for me with Garus (sorry I'm busy). Quite frustrating ^^

I guess it will be the same for Thane and Jacob :') ....

So the point is not : how can I decline a romance (because yes, if you don't select the right answer and there is no romance, they are not offended, and their last answer is friendly), but Bioware, can you add a little more dialogue options ?

[Mnemnosyne]

I felt like this came off pretty smoothly, actually. Unlike in ME1, I was never surprised with the characters thinking they were involved with me. Like Kaidan is damn near impossible not to have him think you like him, unless you dismiss him outright.



But in ME2, Jacob, Garrus, and Thane all had pretty clear moments where you could show interest or just be friendly without being a jackass. Have not played male, maybe it's a lot less clear for the female LI's?