265 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

The cain hardly does much to bosses with huge health and YMIR mechs on insanity. Doesn't mean that I don't use it though. I've found more use out of the blackstorm and grenade launcher.

I only play on insanity. It takes YMIR mechs down to 1/4 armor with one shot. 

[Rylor Tormtor]

Titan98RG wrote...

i dunno. the avalanche saved me against husks and scions in insanity. it's the only heavy weapon i trust.

This. I too once disparaged the avalance as a gimmicy, waste of time item, and begruged the minerals used to research it.

Then I descided to fool around with it to see if it is indeed the worst thing ever.

How surprised was when I made short work of Husks and Abominations. In the IFF mission it was a godsend.

[implodinggoat]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

I completely agree.

Also i'm sad they took out grenades because of this, in ME1 I used well placed grenades all the time. The grenade launched does not make them redundant at all.

I miss grenades too, although I want a grenade you can lob over cover, not that worthless line of sight frisbee from ME1.  The system Gears of War uses for grenades is great and it would fit in perfectly with the revised combat system in ME2.  If I had the option to equip grenades in place of my heavy weapon I'd take it particularly if we could rig them up with different kinds of payloads (freezing, incindiary, high explosive, etc.) like we could in ME1.

I just wish the game would automatically send us off with a full supply of medi gel and power cells when we start each mission.  I tend to avoid using the heavy weapons (and unity for that matter) because I don't like to rely on a limited commodity like power cells.

[implodinggoat]

sinosleep wrote...

IntrepidProdigy wrote...

The cain hardly does much to bosses with huge health and YMIR mechs on insanity. Doesn't mean that I don't use it though. I've found more use out of the blackstorm and grenade launcher.

I only play on insanity. It takes YMIR mechs down to 1/4 armor with one shot. 

I performed the coupe de grace' on the final boss with it on Insanity.  He had about a quarter of his health left and it polished him off quite nicely.  Plus, firing a nuke into the bastard's eye felt like an appropriately epic way to finish the fight.

[DragoonKain3]

Heavy Weapons should fill a role that your class does not give. And for an Adept/Sentinel, that would be burst damage. And nothing does it better than the Cain.



Save 15 crates with the smuggling mission in Insanity? Hell yeah.

[IntrepidProdigy]

sinosleep wrote...


I only play on insanity. It takes YMIR mechs down to 1/4 armor with one shot. 

I also only play on insanity. The purpose of the cain was to be an "I win" button. You can obviously still kill heavy-defense enemies with it, but you have to soften them up quite a bit. I can get YMIR mechs down to the same amount of health with the grenade launcher and still have ammo to spare. I just feel that the cain isn't really worth it with the amount of HW ammo it consumes.

With that said, I do still use it against the Thresher maw and the final boss.

[DragoonKain3]

I can get YMIR mechs down to the same amount of health with the grenade launcher and still have ammo to spare.

Note that it takes 20 grenades to do the same damage against health as 1 Cain shot, or 16 grenades against protection. For every 100% of Cain, you only get 10 grenades.



So no, Cain is more ammo-effecient than grenade launcher, or any other heavy weapon for that matter. The discrepancy between your experiences and the actual damage values is most probably due to the fact that your team is helping you do the damage, and not because the grenade launcher is more effecient.



Also don't forget that with the Cain, you're only out of cover for 4 seconds, and even then you can shave that to 2 or even 1 second by charging the weapon up behind cover and exposing yourself only when the shot is about to go.

[Hellraisin]

Cain is a must for the save crates mission. one of these days, I will bring 2 nukes and see if i can save all 20 on insanity. best I've done so far is 14 on insanity and 18 on hardcore.

[Invalidcode]

Blackstorm & Cain, those two actually feels like Heavy weapon and when I use it, these weapons have the "EAT this you SOB!" feeling during charging, also the 'pretty' explosion. Doesn't really use other HW that much.



Collector beam is very effective but it is not fun to use at all...

[IntrepidProdigy]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

I can get YMIR mechs down to the same amount of health with the grenade launcher and still have ammo to spare.

Note that it takes 20 grenades to do the same damage against health as 1 Cain shot, or 16 grenades against protection. For every 100% of Cain, you only get 10 grenades.

So no, Cain is more ammo-effecient than grenade launcher, or any other heavy weapon for that matter. The discrepancy between your experiences and the actual damage values is most probably due to the fact that your team is helping you do the damage, and not because the grenade launcher is more effecient.

Also don't forget that with the Cain, you're only out of cover for 4 seconds, and even then you can shave that to 2 or even 1 second by charging the weapon up behind cover and exposing yourself only when the shot is about to go.

No, the cain is not more ammo efficient. The cain only fires when at 100% which won't happen often if you plan on using it a lot, and for a weapon that consumes so much ammo, I would expect it to at least knock all YMIRs into health. The grenade launcher on the other hand can be replenished rather easily, will obviously still fire even when not at full capacity, and has a great amount of damage. I would rather use the grenade launcher or blackstorm in most situations vs. the cain, regardless of my squad-mates helping me (which is what they're actually supposed to do anyway). As I've said before, the only times I find myself using the cain over the grenade launcher or blackstorm, is against the thresher maw and final boss. I'll still occasionally use it against groups of YMIRs.

[Forwen]

I agree that Firestorm has a pretty damn wide usefulness distribution. Mostly useless, short-range but not efficient enough to be an oh-snap button (as far as I can tell) but I remember when I was wading through that nightmare that is the Collector Ship for the first time, mad at myself I'd picked Firestorm, only to proceed to laughing maniacally as I the final zombie horde burned to cinder somewhere beyond that wall of fire spilling from the gun.

[sinosleep]

Thing is you just don't NEED the grenade launcher for things that it can kill with small amounts of ammo. Why would I use heavy ammo on husk swarms when it takes all of 2 carnifex rounds to shave off all armor and then one pull (on 2 second CD) kills them instantly any way? Particularly when I have area pull which makes kill 3 husk swarms a joke. Same goes for most other things. And then when you consider YMIR mechs, groups of YMIR mechs (garrus recruitment, crate mission, blue suns side quest) are indisputably easier with a cain. While you take 16 grenades per YMIR, I shoot off one cain and get them both down to 1/4 armor. From there it's a cake walk with my sniper rifle equipped vanguard to simply shoot a few rounds to take down to health, use pull to stun, finish with a headshot, and kill the YMIR mech with the first ones head shot nuke. IMO, the cain is a far superior weapon.

[Graunt]

Hellsteeth30 wrote...

I vote for the Firestorm, as it's a good close range neutraliser. It's magic during the IFF mission.

The Blackstorm is OK for crowd clearing early on, but you have to expose yourself too much due to the charge time.

Depends on the level.  If there's a wall or two stacked crates you can easily charge it up most of the way through before strafing and aiming before it launches.  I think my favorite weapons would be the Blackstorm followed by the Collector beam.  Cain has it's uses, but it's such an ammo hog that it's really only worth it once or twice through the whole game.

Modifié par Graunt, 22 février 2010 - 06:41 .

[Spiro12]

I love the particle beam, it is amazing. Drops barriers and shields, armor, disintigrates mobs, so much fun, and takes VERY little ammo to pull it off.



Granade Launcher is good and the Rocket Launcher is ok, except it doesn't always target who I want it to target.



The Firestorm can be fun, but mostly it's a waste, I don't like being next to mobs with a heavy weapon. Maybe as a Vanguard it could be fun.



Avalanche is dumb.



Blackstorm takes too long to fire, I don't enjoy getting shot up.



Cain is a tremendous waste. You can basically get one shot out of it and then you're done for the mission. While the explosion IS absolutely great, it's still just not worth it.

[Chromie]

M-90 Blackstorm my favorite!

[Average Gatsby]

For me, the worst is the Particle Beam and the blackstorm. I want to kill something as quickly as possible if I'm going to be using a heavy weapon. Pretty much anything will kill quicker than those two. The Blackstorm is just incredibly inefficient compared to the Avalanche, though they have near identical purposes. I just don't get the particle beam. No explosions??



My personal weapon of choice is the grenade launcher. But then again, I rarely use heavy weapons.

[Graunt]

Blackstorm takes too long to fire, I don't enjoy getting shot up.

It's pretty damn amazing on Mordin's recruitment run as well as Samara's.  It's also really useful for  Miranda's loyalty, but not necessarily needed.  It's also really good on a lot of the N7 missions that have small, crowded rooms.  Particle beam is somewhat similar in the areas you would want to use it, although you can just whittle enemies down with it by constantly crouching in between bursts I guess.

The Blackstorm is just incredibly inefficient compared to the Avalanche, though they have near identical purposes.

Can the avalance strip the defenses and sometimes outright kill a decent cluster of enemies with one shot from a distance?  I haven't found much use for it outside of husk rushes, but it might be much more efficient on a mech.  I rarely bother using heavy weapons on them just because the Blackstorm isn't very effective on them and I don't generally carry the Particle beam unless I'm thinking about it ahead of time.

Modifié par Graunt, 22 février 2010 - 06:59 .

[mundus66]

Just for the record i'm pretty sure you can get 10 bullets with blackstorm. I have 9 on my current save, but i'm renegade so i didn't get the heavy ammo upgrade on Zaaeds loyalty mission. You can get 2 at most with caine.

Now caine has it uses and its king for clearing areas fast (my 2nd favorite heavy weapon). But every encounter where nukes are viable, blackstorm is also viable and with 10 shots you can do a lot of damage. For the last boss nuke all the way though.

Modifié par mundus66, 22 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[weirdscientist]

Cain imparts a beautiful death to all in its radius...unless of course you're playing insanity and everything has armor/barrier/shields I love the collector particle beam, especially if you're playing solider on insanity. AR + particle beam against harbinger and praetorians has saved me countless times.

[cerberus1701]

Collector beam works wonders.



The Cain is fun, but pretty pointless.

[implodinggoat]

Forwen wrote...

I agree that Firestorm has a pretty damn wide usefulness distribution. Mostly useless, short-range but not efficient enough to be an oh-snap button (as far as I can tell) but I remember when I was wading through that nightmare that is the Collector Ship for the first time, mad at myself I'd picked Firestorm, only to proceed to laughing maniacally as I the final zombie horde burned to cinder somewhere beyond that wall of fire spilling from the gun.

The Firestorm completely owns husks, taking anything else on the Reaper IFF mission is just downright stupid.

[ThrokRock]

Not a fan of Particle Beam w/o Adrenaline Rush; seems like you might as well use another gun. I find blackstorm to be useful a lot. I especially like that you can spread out the shots with the delay of detonation...you can be poppin' quite a few caps before it goes off. The Okeer mech/blue sun merc end fight is so much easier with it.



On the other hand, on fights like Samara's recruitment mission the blackstorm can send enemies into/out of the geometry, bugging out and making it so you can't complete the mission.

[Daeion]

for anything except the heavy mechs and praetorians I love the black storm generator, other then that I have to go collector weapon.

[Atmosfear3]

I take heavy weapons based on what mission I expect to be going on.



1. Grenade Launcher - I use this on the smuggled crate mission with the 3 YMIR mechs. If you expect to save double digit crates on harder difficulties, you need something that is spammable and does good damage quickly.

2. Missile Launcher - Used on Thane's recruitment mission on the bridge against the two missile launching drones. Also useful during Samara's recruitment during the gunship battle.

3. Avalanche - Useful for missions versus husks. Not bad against missions with lots of Krogans.

4. Firestorm - Amazing versus husks and varren. Absolutely essential for beating that mission that involves rescuing the injured Quarian on insanity.

5. Cain - Earlier poster already mentioned the different uses throughout the game (mechs, scions, etc). Very effective as a "skip-fight-button".

6. Blackstorm - Good against husks. Useful for controlling an area.

7. Particle Beam - To be honest, is fairly useless for me. Anything you can do with the particle beam can be done with normal weapons, probably with better results.

[Vendrac]

The missile launcher really annoys the hell out of me. It should be one of the best but it's so frakking unreliable. The projectiles just go where ever the hell they feel like. They should have at least let you direct exactly where they hit if you keep your crosshair on the target.