510 réponses à ce sujet

[spottyblanket]

Ah, now if only there was an option to romance Logain.

[Dethanos]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The lead writer told us that he did not know.

Well, that was a stupid thing to say.

Regardless, Loghain was still an accessory to the murder of the Couslands, even if it was after the fact. He was still a slaver, a torturer, a traitor, a liar, a murderer, a poisoner, and a fool. He still recieved a far better death than he deserved.

[shedevil3001]

romance loghain omg "shakes in pure fear" why would you want to do that ?

[Dethanos]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If what David Gaider said is not a good enough reason for you, then there is nothing left to say.

Never let an artist interpret their own work.

[Stakis]

im looking foward to see a cameo of his head stuffed on my trophy room, does that count also ?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dethanos wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If what David Gaider said is not a good enough reason for you, then there is nothing left to say.

Never let an artist interpret their own work.

He isn't interpretting. He is giving a fact regarding an event. We can interpret it as we wish.

[Herr Uhl]

Dethanos wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

If what David Gaider said is not a good enough reason for you, then there is nothing left to say.

Never let an artist interpret their own work.

?
It's not an interpretation on his part, it is a fact. You interpret. It's like telling an artist the motivations to his painting or a sculpture.

Edit: Friggin ninjas.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 22 février 2010 - 07:14 .

[Monica21]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Edit: Friggin ninjas.

It's Knight. I've damn near given up posting in a Loghain thread because he'll ninja me every time. <_<

[TheRealIncarnal]

It's funny, I hated Loghain until I decided to get him on my side just for the achievement. Then, well things got very interesting, and it changed the whole way I think of the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Monica21 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Edit: Friggin ninjas.

It's Knight. I've damn near given up posting in a Loghain thread because he'll ninja me every time. <_<

hehe sorry

[Reaverwind]

Dethanos wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The lead writer told us that he did not know.

Well, that was a stupid thing to say.

Regardless, Loghain was still an accessory to the murder of the Couslands, even if it was after the fact.

Whatever Loghain was, he was politically stupid. Not to mention the fiasco that was Ostagar is just baffling. He didn't just set up Cailin - he threw away a good portion of Fereldan's armed forces! Heads usually roll for that kind of incompetance - and that's why Loghain loses his in my games.

[Monica21]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
hehe sorry

*harrumph* 

Regarding Loghain "setting up" Cailan, he was the one who tried to talk him out of battling it out on the front lines with the Wardens. Cailan was the one who was too bull-headed and insisted on it.

[Dethanos]

Monica21 wrote...


Regarding Loghain "setting up" Cailan, he was the one who tried to talk him out of battling it out on the front lines with the Wardens. Cailan was the one who was too bull-headed and insisted on it.

So, you think it is acceptable for a military officer to abandon the field, leaving the man he is sworn to serve and scores of others to certain death, simply because his liege was being "bull-headed".

[Monica21]

Dethanos wrote...

Monica21 wrote...


Regarding Loghain "setting up" Cailan, he was the one who tried to talk him out of battling it out on the front lines with the Wardens. Cailan was the one who was too bull-headed and insisted on it.

So, you think it is acceptable for a military officer to abandon the field, leaving the man he is sworn to serve and scores of others to certain death, simply because his liege was being "bull-headed".

How, exactly, was Loghain supposed to get to him? He couldn't see the entire field and the possiblity does exist that he didn't know where Cailan was.

What is acceptable is a military retreat, which is what I think Loghain did.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dethanos wrote...

Monica21 wrote...


Regarding Loghain "setting up" Cailan, he was the one who tried to talk him out of battling it out on the front lines with the Wardens. Cailan was the one who was too bull-headed and insisted on it.

So, you think it is acceptable for a military officer to abandon the field, leaving the man he is sworn to serve and scores of others to certain death, simply because his liege was being "bull-headed".

Loghain told Maric that his loyalty is to Ferelden, not its king. For Loghain, Cailan was leading Ferelden to ruin.

Yes what he did was acceptable and sensible in my books.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[Wishpig]

Jesus Knight... you know way to many Loghain facts!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus Knight... you know way to many Loghain facts!

I think I qualify as a fanboy, don't I?

[Herr Uhl]

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus Knight... you know way to many Loghain facts!

Months and months of threads going nowhere does that to a man.

[Dethanos]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Loghain told Maric that his loyalty is to Ferelden, not its king. For Loghain, Cailan was leading Ferelden to ruin.

Yes what he did was acceptable and sensible in my books.

Then, Maric and Cailan were fools to allow him any kind of authority. He was basically telling them that he could rationalize betraying his king whenever it fit his agenda, because in the mind of an egomaniac like Loghain, his agenda will always be what is best for Ferelden.

[Ser Jory-]

You know when I first played DA:O I hated Loghain with a passion! But ever since reading "The Stolen Throne" and actually giving him a chance I love the guy, I think he is a really great character. He and Morrigan are my two favorites.

I always spare him and execute Alistar. So yeah I'm really looking forward to more Loghain he  is also my father in-law 

Modifié par Ser Jory-, 22 février 2010 - 08:09 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dethanos wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Loghain told Maric that his loyalty is to Ferelden, not its king. For Loghain, Cailan was leading Ferelden to ruin.

Yes what he did was acceptable and sensible in my books.

Then, Maric and Cailan were fools to allow him any kind of authority. He was basically telling them that he could rationalize betraying his king whenever it fit his agenda, because in the mind of an egomaniac like Loghain, his agenda will always be what is best for Ferelden.

Maric knew Loghain for what he is and that's why Loghain was his right hand man. On the contrary, Maric was smart. He knew his limitations and looked up for Loghain to help him. And vice versa. The Loghain / Maric pair was almost perfect, so Maric wasn't a fool. The only fool is Cailan. 

"Egomaniac" is your own personal interpretation of Loghain. One I strongly disagree with. But using it as an established fact and then interpreting all events to suit your original assumption is not really a rational argument. It's cognitive dissonance, or circular logic.

If there is one man who knew Loghain, it was Maric. And Maric saw Loghain as a brother and not as an "egomaniac". I am going with Maric's interpretation of Loghain, thank you.
But we shouldn't waste our time trying to analyse his psyche. You are entitled to your opiion.
Let's leave it at that.

[Lord Atlia]

I always liked Loghain. He saw an opportunity at Ostagar and took it, Ostagar was lost one way or another and Cailan's vanity insisted he be on the front lines as oppose to the reserve with Loghain so he bought his own death. I liked Alistair too and thus the ultimatum at the Landsmeet can't really work out in a way that I would enjoy. However Alistair is in no way king material and furthermore he is bastard born, and not even legitimized. As for Arl Howe, all leaders usually have one or two monsters in their ranks regardless of how good and noble they are, heck, Eddard and Robb Stark had Roose Bolton serve them

[errant_knight]

Well, I personally think that if you have sworn allegience to a king and you fail to follow that king's orders, abandoning him, you've commited treason, no matter how sensible it may seem at the time. It's possible for him to be correct, although that's not the argument I'm making, and deserving of execution at the same time.

[Wishpig]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Jesus Knight... you know way to many Loghain facts!

I think I qualify as a fanboy, don't I?

Ya, but the good kind of fanboy, the kind that really knows his s***

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

Well, I personally think that if you have sworn allegience to a king and you fail to follow that king's orders, abandoning him, you've commited treason, no matter how sensible it may seem at the time. It's possible for him to be correct, although that's not the argument I'm making, and deserving of execution at the same time.

Of course, it is valid position to execute Loghain solely because he is legally a traitor.
But that only has the weight of the law and nothing else.

"Treason" is a legal charge. Whether that act of treason is ethical / justified or not, or derserving of execution is another thing.
Technically, Maric committed treason against the puppet regime that Orlais put in place. Napoleon committed treason. Caesar committed treason. Claus von Stauffenberg committed treason. Heck, even Jesus committed treason. Wether their act of treason is justified or not (and most of them were) and whether they deserve to be executed for that is another question.

Plus, as I said before, Loghain said to Maric, his king right in front of his face, that his loyalty is ultimately to Ferelden and not its king. Maric approved, or at least did not reject this. So technically, Loghain did not betray his own personal oath to Maric. He betrayed Cailan, who in his eyes, was betraying Ferelden and everything that he and his father struggled for.   

EDIT: Mind you I am not saying you are wrong.
 Sometimes one is compelled to enforce the law, even if he sympathises with the one who broke it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 22 février 2010 - 09:16 .