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Why does all characters have dialogue in missions they cannot possibly participate in?


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#76
Varenus Luckmann

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Lvl20DM wrote...
I don't think this had much to do with technical limitations. It was a design choice. If they gave us 10 dossiers it would be overwhelming for many gamers. Many of us might like it, but Bioware tends to organize their games in this manner. You usually get 3 or 4 things to do or places to go, and then an additional one pops up at some point. Then you get more places to go (or the game ends).

Such a thing would have been apparent early in development, not as late as seems to be indicated. And even then, you could still have done it differently; As I said, I myself would've preferred to simply have Horizon trigger after having done two dossiers, and then pick up Legion on Horizon, or on his own recruitment mission inbetween dossiers.

There are a lot of ifs and buts and whys if we consider what you're saying; and the decision to arbitrarily cut off such large parts of the game and the decision-making in the hands of the player becomes increasingly nonsensical the more you think about it.

On the other hand, we have the explanation of the very real technical limitations.

Occam's Razor.

#77
Zhijn

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Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

Games changes constantly under development, what goes where, what fits there and what not.

Legion didnt really fit in anywhere except Tali's loyalty mission. And visiting the counsil you can always just hold off to do, and visit the place after the suicide mission. Last no crew really talks on these recruit/loyalty missions anyway except whoevers mission it is.

Dont get me wrong i to wish certain members i would have been recruited early aswell, but Legion i dont mind. Having a geth with you and almost nada respond from anyone in the galaxy is rather.. Weird!.

Mabye ME3 will show off Legion in all his glory!. =P

Really, you should check some of the vids posted in this thread. I agree that Legion may be wierd, but no wierder than a krogan on the presidium and he comments on bloody everything.

Legion: "Recommend subject Jack be disabled and transported aboard as cargo."


jtav wrote...
I suspect that the real reason is to keep from crashing the game if someone found a glitch that would allow them to recruit a squaddie earlier than they were "supposed" to.

Maybe you missed the point of the thread. The issue is that there are (to my surprise, actually) no such glitches or missing dialogue.

The only one that I don't think have been extensively tested is Samara. But let's be honest. Who really cares about Samara? :P


Yes but every other character have the same opnion dialog in thouse certain situations, dosnt really mean anything. Thats just BW thinking ahead.

As much as i like Legion, he just dosnt fit in that early in the game.
Imo that is.. I ofc got no 1st hand knowledge of why this and that got cut, heh!. :P

#78
BattleVisor

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Whats with the animosity and arrogant patronisation from PC players to console gaming.

I really do find PC gamers a weird bunch, they're almost zealots in how they think the only true gaming belongs to the mouse and keyboard.

FACT: The most popular games of all time originate from games designed for consoles not PCs.

Modifié par BattleVisor, 22 février 2010 - 10:57 .


#79
Varenus Luckmann

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Nautica773 wrote...

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
The only one that I don't think have been extensively tested is Samara. But let's be honest. Who really cares about Samara? :P

I was with you till here. <_<

Oh, I'm sorry. I don't dislike Samara. But I think you're the first Samara fan that I've actually heard voice an opinion on the matter. For some reason, Samara seems to have taken the backseat in the squaddie popularity contest. :unsure:

#80
Jeremy Winston

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Gee whiz...



So, they came up with a set of characters and a set of missions. Someone wrote them and fired them off for voice acting.



Meanwhile, the story guys kept refining and editing the main story. This is what they ended up with. At the beginning they weren't sure who was where, so they accommodated all the combination.



You know, if you don't want to be disappointed by missing material, don't go looking for it. You wouldn't have been upset if you'd hacked the characters and had absolutely no extra dialog. So, instead, you're upset that you found yourself a personal Easter egg that all us console guys can never play?



What madness is this?

#81
Varenus Luckmann

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BattleVisor wrote...
Whats with the animosity and arrogant patronisation from PC players to console gaming.

There are many, many reasons behind that. Reasons that I'm not going to list in this thread out of fear of going off-topic. Let's just say that it's warranted.

BattleVisor wrote...
[...]
FACT: The most popular games of all time originate from games designed for consoles not PCs.

And there's one of them.

#82
Maria Caliban

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Zhijn wrote...

Legion didnt really fit in anywhere except Tali's loyalty mission.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Legion didn't fit into Tali's loyalty mission at all. The moment you stepped aboard a quarian ship with a geth, they should have attacked it, no questions asked.

#83
Rayhaana

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You aren't really helping your point by acting like an elitist ******; I play on pc by the way.

#84
Zhijn

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Jeremy Winston wrote...


What madness is this?


Gamer Madness!.:o

Maria Caliban wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

Legion didnt really fit in anywhere except Tali's loyalty mission.


I'm
going to have to disagree with you here. Legion didn't fit into Tali's
loyalty mission at all. The moment you stepped aboard a quarian ship
with a geth, they should have attacked it, no questions asked.


Pfft, havnt you met Shepard? Jedi-mindtrick with dialog!. =P

Modifié par Zhijn, 22 février 2010 - 11:03 .


#85
Varenus Luckmann

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Jeremy Winston wrote...
Gee whiz...

So, they came up with a set of characters and a set of missions. Someone wrote them and fired them off for voice acting.

Meanwhile, the story guys kept refining and editing the main story. This is what they ended up with. At the beginning they weren't sure who was where, so they accommodated all the combination.

You know, if you don't want to be disappointed by missing material, don't go looking for it. You wouldn't have been upset if you'd hacked the characters and had absolutely no extra dialog. So, instead, you're upset that you found yourself a personal Easter egg that all us console guys can never play?

What madness is this?

No, I'm upset because the game wasn't allowed to reach it's potential due to technical limitations that are nonexistant to me and my fellow gamers.

#86
Tsi Aileron

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Gaddmeister wrote...

Anduck wrote...

As has been said, Forza 3 did it with an install disc. I would have thought that they could have a second 'optional' disc with side quests and non-essential squadmates & NPCs.

Maybe they'll patch it or someone will mod it in.


And as I replied, the Forza disc is optional, the second ME2 disc isn't. All 360 games must be playable without hdd installation (arcade console version).


It doesn't matter if the second disc for Forza 3 is optional, the fact is that it is possible. Oblivion and Final Fantasy XI would be a much better example of this feature anway, though. Installing the expansions to your hard drive and still playing the game using the original disc.

#87
Jeremy Winston

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BattleVisor wrote...

Whats with the animosity and arrogant patronisation from PC players to console gaming.

I really do find PC gamers a weird bunch, they're almost zealots in how they think the only true gaming belongs to the mouse and keyboard.

FACT: The most popular games of all time originate from games designed for consoles not PCs.

I have to disagree with that fact.  Perhaps the most popular games of the last several years, but not overall.  And that's only because there are so many consoles out there, and PC games are a pain in the ass to manage, what with poorly written hardware requirements, video driver issues, copy protection snafus.  I'm  not surprised people have moved away.

I have a fabulous gaming machine.  I just happen to LIKE playing on my console for some games.  I also love my PC games.

I happen to be playing ME2 on the 360.  I suspect I'll be on the PC for ME3, because I strongly doubt that my save games will survive until ME3 comes out.  Things happen, and there's no reasonable archive utility for the 360.

#88
Varenus Luckmann

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Zhijn wrote...
Legion didnt really fit in anywhere except Tali's loyalty mission.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Legion didn't fit into Tali's loyalty mission at all. The moment you stepped aboard a quarian ship with a geth, they should have attacked it, no questions asked.

I agree. I think that Tali's loyalty mission is quite possibly the ONLY place Legion doesn't fit into at all.

#89
Ecael

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Lvl20DM wrote...

I don't think this had much to do with technical limitations. It was a design choice. If they gave us 10 dossiers it would be overwhelming for many gamers. Many of us might like it, but Bioware tends to organize their games in this manner. You usually get 3 or 4 things to do or places to go, and then an additional one pops up at some point. Then you get more places to go (or the game ends).

Dragon Age allows you to recruit any of the party members within the first 1/8th of the game, with the exception of Legion Loghain, who you get after you've dealt with most of the game and the MigrantFleet Landsmeet.

FACT: The most popular games of all time originate from games designed for consoles not PCs.

Almost all of the popular games of all time originate from Nintendo consoles and handhelds.

#90
Jeremy Winston

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Varenus Luckmann wrote...

Jeremy Winston wrote...
Gee whiz...

So, they came up with a set of characters and a set of missions. Someone wrote them and fired them off for voice acting.

Meanwhile, the story guys kept refining and editing the main story. This is what they ended up with. At the beginning they weren't sure who was where, so they accommodated all the combination.

You know, if you don't want to be disappointed by missing material, don't go looking for it. You wouldn't have been upset if you'd hacked the characters and had absolutely no extra dialog. So, instead, you're upset that you found yourself a personal Easter egg that all us console guys can never play?

What madness is this?

No, I'm upset because the game wasn't allowed to reach it's potential due to technical limitations that are nonexistant to me and my fellow gamers.

You're guessing as to why they did it that way.  Personally, bringing in the Geth at the last mission was quite a surprise for me.  Would it have worked earlier?  Perhaps.  But I would have been waiting for Legion to betray me or something.

No game ever reaches it's potential on any platform.  Don't be upset just because ME2 came closer than other and just because there happens to be additional recorded and integrated dialog.  Take the game for what it is.

#91
Zhijn

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How does Legion not fit in on Tali's loyalty mission. I mean the only point of the trial is do we goto war or not with the Geth. And you get to ask that question to Legion with one of the board members.

Could have been handled way better ofc.

Modifié par Zhijn, 22 février 2010 - 11:06 .


#92
Varenus Luckmann

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Jeremy Winston wrote...
I have to disagree with that fact.  Perhaps the most popular games of the last several years, but not overall.  And that's only because there are so many consoles out there, and PC games are a pain in the ass to manage, what with poorly written hardware requirements, video driver issues, copy protection snafus.  I'm  not surprised people have moved away.

I have a fabulous gaming machine.  I just happen to LIKE playing on my console for some games.  I also love my PC games.

I happen to be playing ME2 on the 360.  I suspect I'll be on the PC for ME3, because I strongly doubt that my save games will survive until ME3 comes out.  Things happen, and there's no reasonable archive utility for the 360.

This. Some games should be played on consoles. Other games should be played on PC. I'd never dream of firing up a sports game or fighting game on my PC, just as little as I'd dream of firing up an RTS or FPS on my X360.

Games should be kept on whatever platform allows it to reach it's highest potential.

#93
Gaddmeister

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Tsi Aileron wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

Anduck wrote...

As has been said, Forza 3 did it with an install disc. I would have thought that they could have a second 'optional' disc with side quests and non-essential squadmates & NPCs.

Maybe they'll patch it or someone will mod it in.


And as I replied, the Forza disc is optional, the second ME2 disc isn't. All 360 games must be playable without hdd installation (arcade console version).


It doesn't matter if the second disc for Forza 3 is optional, the fact is that it is possible. Oblivion and Final Fantasy XI would be a much better example of this feature anway, though. Installing the expansions to your hard drive and still playing the game using the original disc.


No, it does matter. This is the thing, 360 gamers must be able to play the game without hdd installation. If you have the 360 arcade system, you cannot use dlc (unless you have enough space on a memory unit of course). You cannot use the extra disc for Forza 3 for example, because it cannot run by itself. You need to have disc one in the drive at all times. With ME2, you need to be able to run the whole game off of each disc, because disc 2 isn't optional. To avoid having multiple disc changes during a playthrough they have divided much material (many missions) on separate discs and (probably) designed the story to fit this. That way you only need two disc changes for each playthrough, one after Horizon (if I remember correctly) and one when you go through the Omega 4 relay.

edit:
to clarify even more: ME2 disc 2 is not equal to dlc or expansion packs and cannot be treated as such.

Modifié par Gaddmeister, 22 février 2010 - 11:15 .


#94
Varenus Luckmann

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Ecael wrote...

Lvl20DM wrote...

I don't think this had much to do with technical limitations. It was a design choice. If they gave us 10 dossiers it would be overwhelming for many gamers. Many of us might like it, but Bioware tends to organize their games in this manner. You usually get 3 or 4 things to do or places to go, and then an additional one pops up at some point. Then you get more places to go (or the game ends).

Dragon Age allows you to recruit any of the party members within the first 1/8th of the game, with the exception of Legion Loghain, who you get after you've dealt with most of the game and the MigrantFleet Landsmeet.

[...]

I see what you did there. :bandit:

#95
Nautica773

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Varenus Luckmann wrote...
Oh, I'm sorry. I don't dislike Samara. But I think you're the first Samara fan that I've actually heard voice an opinion on the matter. For some reason, Samara seems to have taken the backseat in the squaddie popularity contest. :unsure:


Probably because she doesn't offer snoo snoo. :pinched:

Varenus Luckmann wrote...
I agree. I think that Tali's loyalty mission is quite possibly
the ONLY place Legion doesn't fit into at all.


Legion doesn't really fit on the Citadel either. I have a hard time believing that none of the previous C-Sec didn't survive the attack or that the Citadel shut off all the video cameras during that time.

BattleVisor wrote...
FACT: The most popular games of all time originate from games designed for consoles not PCs.


I don't know, the only video game I know that's a national sport is a PC exclusive...

Modifié par Nautica773, 22 février 2010 - 11:14 .


#96
Maria Caliban

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Rumor: Legion may originally have been your first companion.

#97
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yeah i think the pivot is that hours of time were paid for in recording studios, often which have been described as employing scene directors as well to work with the actors.



this is a HUGE investment of resources. while it is possible that x dollars were allocated to voice recording booth hours and all actors cranked out all potential dialogue. i find it particularly hard to believe that bioware would err on the side of indulging all potential dialogue than streamlining resources.



as others have said, writing is said to be done in early stages of development and voice recording is done late. it really feels like its just because of the xbox disc issue. which is a real shame. the game is great as it is, but this franchise should never have to compromise.

#98
Satanic Hamster

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Rm80 wrote...

yep since it is disc swapping time after you recruted the first bunch of people its seems logical that it has to do with Mass Effect 2 being on two discs...

It probably was not meant to be like that from the beginning


Some people have to swap discs? 

Speaking as a pc user, I find this ADORABLE, OUTRIGHT ADORABLE!

:)

Well, adorable and annoying.  Why must us PC users continue to suffer because of console people, Bioware?  First we had to wait years for ME to come to PC, then weeks for the DA:O DLC, now this?   And nevermind some of the poor textures due to console memory limitations.  /em cutswrists

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#99
Haasth

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Rumor: Legion may originally have been your first companion.


That sounds awesome, really. 

#100
Default137

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360