99 réponses à ce sujet

[_Dannok1234]

Kronner you'd be surprised how often that actually works. I mean the first melee is in between first and second shots, so thats not a problem. Since you don't melee after the second shot you have 0.6 seconds to find a new target. So you actually have 0.6 seconds to target enemy nr 2 and 0,6 for enemy nr 3, I'll agree that it doesn't happen every time, but not rarely either. Same sort of re-targeting time with the Evi really. But of course the Claymore does allow you far longer time to target your next enemy, which can be a good thing.

Personally my reaction times vary greatly depending on how awake I am, or if I've been enjoying some alcohol. If I find myself being slow, I just hit pause and problem is solved

Edit: Not saying one shotgun is better then the other really, just that they are more equal then people might think, and it's best to chose the one you want to use based on your personal taste rather then anything else since they are so darn similar.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 24 février 2010 - 12:40 .

[Siven80]

SmilingMirror wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

SmilingMirror wrote...

Just having the claymore improves the katana and scimitar's damage. I say claymore.

Uh what?

Like i said, grabbing a non-dlc gun upgrades all other non-dlc guns of the same type.

If i grab a vindicator, the avenger gets better. If i grab a revenant, the avenger (again) and vindicator get upgraded.
It even says so on the weapons description.

Sure the descriptions of the weapons SAY they upgrade the previous weapons, BUT do they really?

Wouldnt be the first time ingame descriptions are wrong in Bioware games, and if it is true...we need proof and stats.

Modifié par Siven80, 24 février 2010 - 12:42 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

You guys are reading it wrong.



It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

[godlike13]

IMO it still takes about 3 still relatively slow shots with the Eviscerator shotgun, and when ur fireing them as quickly as possible its pretty hard to get all the pellets to hit IMO, to do relatively the same damage the Clymore can do in one. So ur having to reload regardless, and Eviscerator's ROF is still pretty bad too.

Modifié par godlike13, 24 février 2010 - 01:31 .

[Ackillez]

godlike13 wrote...

IMO it still takes about 3 still relatively slow shots with the Eviscerator shotgun, and when ur fireing them as quickly as possible its pretty hard to get all the pellets to hit IMO, to do relatively the same damage the Clymore can do in one. So ur having to reload regardless, and Eviscerator's ROF is still pretty bad too.

This would be wrong, 3 shots with the Evi does more than double the damage of one shot of the Claymore.

On paper it seems to be true that you can squeeze out more damage from the claymore but it really exists only on paper. The claymore is so much less forgiving than the other shotguns because making one mistake is really harsh. Missing a shot could mean your death. Meleeing too soon after firing will ruin the autoreload, making it take more time, and possibly meaning you find you have to reload when you thought you had a round loaded.

Add to this the point sinosleep makes, namely that shotguns with several rounds have superior CC capabilities, and it becomes clear that the claymore just isn't worth it. I won't argue that it isn't fun and useful to run around with in certain situations, but the other shotguns offer so many advantages the claymore doesn't have while you don't rerlly have to sacrifice much (if anything) in terms of damage.

In terms of making the optimal build, the claymore is a joke compared to AR or sniper access. It's fun because it looks cool to run around with a giant beast of a shotgun and inflicting the most damager per shot available in the game, but not much beyond that.

[dynas2001]

One thing I wish about these shotty's and weapons in general, is that there was a clearly better weapon



I know they wanted each to not be useless and feel different, but I want a shotty that is head and shoulders above everything else.

[ralx22]

dynas2001 wrote...

One thing I wish about these shotty's and weapons in general, is that there was a clearly better weapon

I know they wanted each to not be useless and feel different, but I want a shotty that is head and shoulders above everything else.

Thankfully they didn't go down that route, and the game is so much better for it. Love me my shotguns.

[bevey2176]

Ackillez wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

IMO it still takes about 3 still relatively slow shots with the Eviscerator shotgun, and when ur fireing them as quickly as possible its pretty hard to get all the pellets to hit IMO, to do relatively the same damage the Clymore can do in one. So ur having to reload regardless, and Eviscerator's ROF is still pretty bad too.

This would be wrong, 3 shots with the Evi does more than double the damage of one shot of the Claymore.

On paper it seems to be true that you can squeeze out more damage from the claymore but it really exists only on paper. The claymore is so much less forgiving than the other shotguns because making one mistake is really harsh. Missing a shot could mean your death. Meleeing too soon after firing will ruin the autoreload, making it take more time, and possibly meaning you find you have to reload when you thought you had a round loaded.

Add to this the point sinosleep makes, namely that shotguns with several rounds have superior CC capabilities, and it becomes clear that the claymore just isn't worth it. I won't argue that it isn't fun and useful to run around with in certain situations, but the other shotguns offer so many advantages the claymore doesn't have while you don't rerlly have to sacrifice much (if anything) in terms of damage.

In terms of making the optimal build, the claymore is a joke compared to AR or sniper access. It's fun because it looks cool to run around with a giant beast of a shotgun and inflicting the most damager per shot available in the game, but not much beyond that.

Are you smoking ROF it says it in the evi description that it has a longer range than any of the other Shotguns.  I agree with ackillez, optimum builds include a sniper.  I even tested it in a previous post per shot claymore does 1/8 inch more dmg than the evi with ALL multipliers. Add in the bigger clip as well as more rounds and longer range and you get a sniper evi wins hand down for vanguard as far as optimizing.

Modifié par bevey2176, 24 février 2010 - 04:51 .

[Ackillez]

ralx22 wrote...

dynas2001 wrote...

One thing I wish about these shotty's and weapons in general, is that there was a clearly better weapon

I know they wanted each to not be useless and feel different, but I want a shotty that is head and shoulders above everything else.

Thankfully they didn't go down that route, and the game is so much better for it. Love me my shotguns.

Choice is good and all, but the claymore should be more powerful relative to the other shotguns, like the revenant is to the ARs and Widow is to the sniper rifles. You are sacrificing long-range firepower to get it, so it should offer capabilities that are distinctly better then the other shotguns, at least at certain tasks.

[dynas2001]

agree - Claymore should be allot more affective then it is, unless they want to patch it so you can run through multiple games and pick up the otehr weapons. As it stands now, with a 1 especial weapon, claymore should destroy any other shotgun by miles..



I want to see lots more weapons for DLC too (even if it means setting them up so they can only get found at certain points, i want those new weapons to be better

[sipaufade]

the claymore is really only as good as the evi if you use the reload trick. good thing it's not that hard.



the claymore just is so bad a. the sound it makes is amazing

[Homebound]

claymore.

[ralx22]

sipaufade wrote...

the claymore is really only as good as the evi if you use the reload trick. good thing it's not that hard.

the claymore just is so bad a. the sound it makes is amazing

Yes, the sound of death, lol. Favorite shotgun, even before mastering the reload trick, which was very easy tbh.

[Ackillez]

The thing is before the Eviscerator the Claymore kinda had a role to play, with much higher alpha strike than any of the other shotguns and a damage bonus against armour. But the Evi is essentially a mini claymore with 25% less raw damage but much better precision, 3-round clip and more ammo. It's arguably better than the Claymore in ALL circumstances (this claim is tougher to make with the other shotguns IMHO) and this is not how it should be when you get the Evi for free after Freedom's Progress while you only get the Claymore by sacrificing AR or sniper access halfway through the game.

[Kronner]

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

Modifié par Kronner, 24 février 2010 - 05:19 .

[godlike13]

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

Couldn't agree more.

[Ackillez]

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but personally I think the Vindicator is much better than the pistol at killing unreachable targets at medium-long range (excellent accuracy with the upgrade), without the need for sinking points into shockwave-pull or reave. I want to use the first 20 levels at maxing Charge, Champion, Inferno ammo and Squad Cryo (roughly in that order).

[Mordigan]

It really depends on your playstyle..

If you play the aggressive charge and shotgun style that I and Kronner seem to use, then the Claymore will probably be optimal, because it allows you to kill enemies with less shots than the Evi.

Standard mobs on insanity die from one blast with the Claymore, regardless of where you hit them.

Using the Evi, you have to perform a headshot if you want to kill them in one shot.

Elite mobs require 2 blasts with the Claymore assuming you get a headshot and use the reload trick, or two blasts and a melee without the headshot.

With the Evi, elite mobs typically require 3 blasts and 2 melees..

While the Claymore may be less forgiving of mistakes, I found that I could run through a map noticeably faster than with the Evi with a reduced risk of dying simply because I spent less time killing an enemy.

This rings even more true if you use the reload trick.

Modifié par Mordigan, 24 février 2010 - 05:45 .

[Kronner]

Ackillez wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but personally I think the Vindicator is much better than the pistol at killing unreachable targets at medium-long range (excellent accuracy with the upgrade), without the need for sinking points into shockwave-pull or reave. I want to use the first 20 levels at maxing Charge, Champion, Inferno ammo and Squad Cryo (roughly in that order).

I agree Vindicator is better, but not by much. Also, you do not have to use your Pull or Reave, you've got your squad for that.

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

Because while it may be easy to do it with the handcannon, it's even easier to do it with the sniper rifle, particularly with the viper. You can rapid fire a target down a hell of a whole lot faster with the viper than with the carnifex, and this applies to practically anything. I charge as much as the next guy, but there are situations where charging, while possible, just isn't the optimal choice. Why run around the map, using charge 15 times just to kill two YMIRs when I can just snipe one to death, finish it with a head shot, and kill the other one in no time at all due to nuke damage? 

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Sniper Rifle for Vanguard is pretty much useless for me, I gave it a try and found it totally boring. Why would I play a close combat class with a freakin Sniper Rifle? Distant targets that cannot be charged can be easily killed with the Heavy Pistol and Pull or Reave. AR also does not make sense, SMG does pretty good job up close and Vanguard is not a mid-range class. Claymore is the only logical choice for me. It might not be much better than Evi or Scimitar, but it feels awesome and is more than good enough to handle any situation in the game.

Because while it may be easy to do it with the handcannon, it's even easier to do it with the sniper rifle, particularly with the viper. You can rapid fire a target down a hell of a whole lot faster with the viper than with the carnifex, and this applies to practically anything. I charge as much as the next guy, but there are situations where charging, while possible, just isn't the optimal choice. Why run around the map, using charge 15 times just to kill two YMIRs when I can just snipe one to death, finish it with a head shot, and kill the other one in no time at all due to nuke damage? 

Because it's fun. Using sniper as a Vanguard just seems weird to me, when I want to snipe I just load my infiltrator character. Just my opinion though.

[_Dannok1234]

You can take down elites in 2 shots and 4 melee's with the Evi, think it's slightly faster then waiting for the 3rd shot. But you'll do it faster with the Scimitar, 4 shots and 3 melee's 1.8 secs compared to nearly 2.5 with Evi, not that it really matters. I only use the Evi until I get hold of the Scimitar, for me the others just don't come close to it's forgiving nature, and that it can kill 1 elite and 2 normals without a reload. But it's only my preference, others will have different opinions as they are so damn even.



For me having an extra weapon, be it assault rifle or sniper doesn't really matter, I don't use them all that much and if I didn't have them I would do just as well using something else. But I like the idea of having them, to me thats just as important as their usefulness. Which seems to be the case for a lot of people using the Claymore as well. The idea of the one-shot-one-kill weapon, walking around with an obscenely large shotgun is something that appeals to them more then just the stats.



Thats why I think the shotguns are so brilliantly balanced in this game. There is no shutgun thats clearly optimal for everyone, I play aggressively as hell, I charge whenever I can against anything, but I do it using the Scimitar. Others will do it with the Claymore and yet others with the Evi. They all work just as well, as long as you playy to it's strength and keep in mind it's weakness.

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...
Because it's fun. Using sniper as a Vanguard just seems weird to me, when I want to snipe I just load my infiltrator character. Just my opinion though.

It's all gravy, we all have different opinions about when and how to use charge. I use it probably 90% of the time, but like having the sniper rifle around for times where I just don't feel it's prudent to charge, which are really few and far between. I think the only times I didn't use charge heavily was when battling YMIR mechs and the second time you run into harbinger during the suicide run. You get harbinger and like 5 collectors all on the same area and it was just easier to snipe, pull, warp explosion the collectors then bring charge back for harbinger and the rest of the suicide run. 

[Kronner]

Dannok1234 wrote...

The idea of the one-shot-one-kill weapon, walking around with an obscenely large shotgun is something that appeals to them more then just the stats.

..AND it's a krogan weapon
Totally agree with your post though, I have absolutely no problem using Scimitar and Evi and I do from time to time, just for kicks but neither gives me the awesome feeling like a Claymore.

[SmilingMirror]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

You guys are reading it wrong.

It means that the new weapon is an upgrade from the previous weapon. (even though its debateable)

How is "Upgrades the Avenger" up for debate?

Plus the Vindicator is far from all-around better. Why do you think that is?

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 24 février 2010 - 06:28 .